BoxRec

Floyd waited until manny was past his best. The 2009 manny would have ko'd fraud mayweather in 6. Is alvarez waiting for the same.

Is there even a question about that? Clearly, he is.

Floyd would have beat Pacman anytime they met, he was just building it into the super paying dollar fight which it became.

Wow, people still have assache over Floyd being greater than Manny. Whom Floyd is older than anyway. Move on, get a life. He was never good enough.

I think the Manny of 2009 was clearly more dangerous than the 2015 one, having shown signs of slipping and getting flattened twice once for good against JMM. That doesn't mean he'd have beaten Floyd, but he had a better shot. 6 year difference benefited the guy who relied on technique and hurt the guy relying on athleticism. But the best fight certainly belonged in 2010 or so. Still would have shattered records, and would have been a better win.

He certainly had a better chance when he was juiced out of his mind. If he wasn't, it would have happened that first time. It's not like he's shot, Floyd is just a bad match up for anyone.

It was a close fight. Floyd won, but who knows what would happen 4 years earlier. Offensive fighters get old earlier than defensive ones.

Huh? Never heard that adage. Lol

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Huh? Never heard that adage. Lol

They get more punishment. Manny certainly did.

I love the argument that Floyd waited for Pacman to get old when Floyd is older than Pacquiao

gilgamesh wrote:I love the argument that Floyd waited for Pacman to get old when Floyd is older than Pacquiao

Yeah it's pretty stupid since Floyd relies on his legs, footwork, stamina, handspeed, timing, etc. Those are the first things to go as you get older, power goes last.

So it would make no sense for floyd, whose a year older, to allow himself to get much older too if his strategy was to wait for Manny to slow down.

gilgamesh wrote:I love the argument that Floyd waited for Pacman to get old when Floyd is older than Pacquiao

Pac had way more wear and tear. By 130 he'd already fought Marquez x2, Barrera x2, Morales x3, and a whole slew of beltholders. It's amazing how long his aggressive style lasted at welter. With Vada testing, a much declined midget Pac is a top 3 welter at worst. He's still good, he's not shot but he doesn't have the killer instinct he had pre Margarito, and of course the Marquez KO would make anyone a bit gunshy. Also didn't have any fake retirements. Went through the top welters in 18 months etc

Purse Bid Shakedown wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:I love the argument that Floyd waited for Pacman to get old when Floyd is older than Pacquiao

Pac had way more wear and tear. By 130 he'd already fought Marquez x2, Barrera x2, Morales x3, and a whole slew of beltholders. It's amazing how long his aggressive style lasted at welter. With Vada testing, a much declined midget Pac is a top 3 welter at worst. He's still good, he's not shot but he doesn't have the killer instinct he had pre Margarito, and of course the Marquez KO would make anyone a bit gunshy. Also didn't have any fake retirements. Went through the top welters in 18 months etc

He's literally coming back from a fake retirement in his next fight

boxing_rocks wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Huh? Never heard that adage. Lol

They get more punishment. Manny certainly did.

Ok, lol. I guess that makes that blanket statement correct. Too bad nobody told benitez or Whitaker.

gilgamesh wrote:

Purse Bid Shakedown wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:I love the argument that Floyd waited for Pacman to get old when Floyd is older than Pacquiao

Pac had way more wear and tear. By 130 he'd already fought Marquez x2, Barrera x2, Morales x3, and a whole slew of beltholders. It's amazing how long his aggressive style lasted at welter. With Vada testing, a much declined midget Pac is a top 3 welter at worst. He's still good, he's not shot but he doesn't have the killer instinct he had pre Margarito, and of course the Marquez KO would make anyone a bit gunshy. Also didn't have any fake retirements. Went through the top welters in 18 months etc

He's literally coming back from a fake retirement in his next fight

I thought you were making a point about the Floyd fight, as per the thread title? Pac's fake retirement came after. Not that a 6 month fake will retirement will help much, that's his regular fight cadence these days.

looks that way,,a real shame , as he is giving the Mexican irish(San Patricios ) a bad name

carlito12 wrote:Floyd waited until manny was past his best. The 2009 manny would have ko'd fraud mayweather in 6. Is alvarez waiting for the same.

bollocks. Floyd was older than Manny ffs.

I think Floyd would've always beaten Manny, but it's naive to think that a fighter being younger means he hasn't faded more. Someone like Fernando Vargas was done in his 20s, while BHOP was going strong into his 40s.

Manny stood a significantly better chance against Floyd 6-7 years ago IMO.

crusader wrote:I think Floyd would've always beaten Manny, but it's naive to think that a fighter being older means he's faded less.

Do you mean faded more? I understand that argument aswell but people within this thread are saying the Pacquaio of 2009 would knock Mayweather out. Well the Mayweather of 2009 was also surely better in terms of reflexes, hand and foot speed, etc than the Mayweather of 2015 that fought Pacquaio.

I think Pac faded significantly more than Mayweather did. Where are the type of high-volume, whirlwind performances where he was wrecking and knocking out people like Cotto and Hatton? He didn't even stop Chris Algeiri immediately before the Floyd fight, and he was more sparing with his output.

Again, fighters can fade at very different rates.....someone like Victor Ortiz was pretty much done by 27.

True but the Floyd of 2009 was also clearly better than the Floyd of 2015 IMO. He became a lot more flat footed in his later fights. Particularly against Maidana it was noticeable and Roach himself kept bringing up the fact that he thought Floyds legs had gone in the pre fight build up and even in the time leading up to the fight being made.

Manny didn't fade, he stopped juicing like a thoroughbred.

Mayweather used his feet plenty in his fight immediately prior to Pacquiao, and two fights before that was his schooling of Canelo, his best performance in years. From 2009-2012 he beat Marquez, Mosley, Ortiz, and Cotto, and I wouldn't say that in general he moved significantly more in those fights or looked quite a bit better than he did vs Alvarez and in the Maidana rematch.

To me Floyd has looked like pretty much the same fighter, whereas I think there's been quite a significant drop-off in Pacquiao's showing, which are nowhere close to the superman demolitions of Oscar, Hatton, and Cotto.

I'm not denying that Floyd didn't fade whatsoever, and I think he would've beaten Pac regardless, but to me Pac would've had significantly better chances had it happened 5-6 years ago, regardless of their ages (again, compare Hopkins with Vargas or Ortiz).

The 2009 version of Pacquaio would have had a lot better chance against the 2015 version of Floyd, definietly.

i agree with both of you lefty , crusader, young pac man who beat Barrera in 2007 would of given mayweather his toughest fight