BoxRec

Don't get me wrong, it sucks they do, but they only do it because it makes sense, and it makes sense because of many of very fans that complain about it.

How often do people fail to give credit to those that fight the best, while giving it to those that fought no one? If people kept their ratings of fighters more closely tied to who they've actually beat, then fighters would take harder fights more often, it's make more sense. But why would they when people will claim you are an ATG because of how good you looked knocking out someone not even close to world level?

Anthony Joshua is amazing, shut up!

BitPlayer wrote:Don't get me wrong, it sucks they do, but they only do it because it makes sense, and it makes sense because of many of very fans that complain about it.

How often do people fail to give credit to those that fight the best, while giving it to those that fought no one? If people kept their ratings of fighters more closely tied to who they've actually beat, then fighters would take harder fights more often, it's make more sense. But why would they when people will claim you are an ATG because of how good you looked knocking out someone not even close to world level?

This paragraph is suspiciously like something Horse would write. Does he have you locked in his basement?

Boxerbeetle wrote:This paragraph is suspiciously like something Horse would write. Does he have you locked in his basement?

He's just a fan.

Boxerbeetle wrote:

BitPlayer wrote:Don't get me wrong, it sucks they do, but they only do it because it makes sense, and it makes sense because of many of very fans that complain about it.

How often do people fail to give credit to those that fight the best, while giving it to those that fought no one? If people kept their ratings of fighters more closely tied to who they've actually beat, then fighters would take harder fights more often, it's make more sense. But why would they when people will claim you are an ATG because of how good you looked knocking out someone not even close to world level?

This paragraph is suspiciously like something Horse would write. Does he have you locked in his basement?

You're speaking nonsense. I have no connenction at all to this person.

Horse wrote:

Boxerbeetle wrote:This paragraph is suspiciously like something Horse would write. Does he have you locked in his basement?

He's just a fan.

Lol, I don't get why people sharing minority opinions is shocking to some here. Even quite a lot of them since many opinions are linked, e.g. if different people use the same things to rate fighters they'll often end up rating the same ones.

I can always forgive one or two easy 'homecoming' defence. Most of the time as the challenger the boxer will have faced a tough opponent for the short end of the purse. They now have the chance to be the big end of it and make some money to secure their future. The Molina fight leaves a sour taste however I'm just relieved it isn't Price. We also saw a complete cluster fu ck unfold with the belts becoming available and Parker going from the most likely opponent (get the mando out the way, who as a bonus is a half decent opponent) to no chance as he has an easier shot at a title. Then the Klitschko will they won't they mess, and suddenly it's 6-8 weeks out.

It'll have to change in the next two fights tho we need a quality voluntary defence. Obviously there will be a new mandatory, probably Pulev, who thankfully is a good test.

I don't mind an easy first defence, as a sort of homecoming or an easier defence if it's against a domestic rival. Or even if they have a difficult defence followed by an easier one or two. Some take the piss with it though.

I do find it especially frustrating when a fighter is obviously world class and one of the best in the division but doesn't try to fully establish himself as the #1 guy. Like Flanagan.

Years ago, in the "good old days" world champs would often have fights in between defences to sharpen the tools as it were. Some fighters would even take fights between domestic championship fights. But now we are supposed to be grateful that the humble one comes out for our entertainment on Dec 10, against a, and this is being generous, out And out rank no hoper, and get charged £17 or what tanned Eddie feels like telling me it's worth? I've had enough. I'm done with this.

I've been saying for years that soccerball is only worth watching and second/third tier level. It's getting the same for boxing.

BitPlayer wrote:Don't get me wrong, it sucks they do, but they only do it because it makes sense, and it makes sense because of many of very fans that complain about it.

How often do people fail to give credit to those that fight the best, while giving it to those that fought no one? If people kept their ratings of fighters more closely tied to who they've actually beat, then fighters would take harder fights more often, it's make more sense. But why would they when people will claim you are an ATG because of how good you looked knocking out someone not even close to world level?

That makes no sense at all.

Tarkus wrote:

BitPlayer wrote:Don't get me wrong, it sucks they do, but they only do it because it makes sense, and it makes sense because of many of very fans that complain about it.

How often do people fail to give credit to those that fight the best, while giving it to those that fought no one? If people kept their ratings of fighters more closely tied to who they've actually beat, then fighters would take harder fights more often, it's make more sense. But why would they when people will claim you are an ATG because of how good you looked knocking out someone not even close to world level?

That makes no sense at all.

Glad I'm not only one who is confused.

The thing is. The people that complain need to calm down. They always do when the fights eventually get made. Joshua isn't going to be ducking top competition for ever. Molina isn't the best obviously, but the fights will happen.

This isn't a Hatton and his WBU bum of the month tour situation that was still rolling on SEVEN YEARS after he turned pro. Joshua has been pro for 3 years. After 3 years Lennox was still fighting the likes of Mike Dixon (although he stepped up shortly afterwards). Can't even begin to imagine the bums Wlad must have been fighting. Joshua isn't the 'world champion', so no point judging him on that paper title. Put things into context.

He's high profile, they're building him, making money, the fights will come. Nobody is going to be looking back on his career when it's over and saying 'decent fighter, but he sure did spend three years at the start of his career fighting sub-standard opposition!' Trust me.

smoothmoves wrote:Years ago, in the "good old days" world champs would often have fights in between defences to sharpen the tools as it were. Some fighters would even take fights between domestic championship fights. But now we are supposed to be grateful that the humble one comes out for our entertainment on Dec 10, against a, and this is being generous, out And out rank no hoper, and get charged £17 or what tanned Eddie feels like telling me it's worth? I've had enough. I'm done with this.

I've been saying for years that soccerball is only worth watching and second/third tier level. It's getting the same for boxing.

remember james toney taking regular tuneups between title fights on small shows, respected that. oh and whats soccerball ? (only kidding, I take it your from U.S )

Riddick Blowe wrote:The thing is. The people that complain need to calm down. They always do when the fights eventually get made. Joshua isn't going to be ducking top competition for ever. Molina isn't the best obviously, but the fights will happen.

This isn't a Hatton and his WBU bum of the month tour situation that was still rolling on SEVEN YEARS after he turned pro. Joshua has been pro for 3 years. After 3 years Lennox was still fighting the likes of Mike Dixon (although he stepped up shortly afterwards). Can't even begin to imagine the bums Wlad must have been fighting. Joshua isn't the 'world champion', so no point judging him on that paper title. Put things into context.

He's high profile, they're building him, making money, the fights will come. Nobody is going to be looking back on his career when it's over and saying 'decent fighter, but he sure did spend three years at the start of his career fighting sub-standard opposition!' Trust me.

didn't mind hattons WBU run that much, he needed seasoning and that gave it to him without a real title being on the line, Joshua on the other hand also needs seasoning but he is getting it with a genuine title up for grabs which devalues the said title, its alright for us in the know but the uneducated fans are being sold a dud product

I'd just like to point out I'm not only talking about Joshua.

Joshua v Price next.... its gonna happen

smoothmoves wrote:Years ago, in the "good old days" world champs would often have fights in between defences to sharpen the tools as it were. Some fighters would even take fights between domestic championship fights. But now we are supposed to be grateful that the humble one comes out for our entertainment on Dec 10, against a, and this is being generous, out And out rank no hoper, and get charged £17 or what tanned Eddie feels like telling me it's worth? I've had enough. I'm done with this.

I've been saying for years that soccerball is only worth watching and second/third tier level. It's getting the same for boxing.

And the big point here is, those fights in between defenses were non title fights.

nowadays, they manage to shoe horn that no hoper in to the top 15 of some governing bodies meaningless rankings and allow him to challenge for the heavyweight championship of the world! (and put it on ppv)

We're all just talking about Anthony Joshua now, right?

BitPlayer wrote:I'd just like to point out I'm not only talking about Joshua.

He just happens to offer himself up as a very good example

sweetscience wrote:Joshua v Price next.... its gonna happen

Joshua vs Molina

littlepug wrote:

Riddick Blowe wrote:The thing is. The people that complain need to calm down. They always do when the fights eventually get made. Joshua isn't going to be ducking top competition for ever. Molina isn't the best obviously, but the fights will happen.

This isn't a Hatton and his WBU bum of the month tour situation that was still rolling on SEVEN YEARS after he turned pro. Joshua has been pro for 3 years. After 3 years Lennox was still fighting the likes of Mike Dixon (although he stepped up shortly afterwards). Can't even begin to imagine the bums Wlad must have been fighting. Joshua isn't the 'world champion', so no point judging him on that paper title. Put things into context.

He's high profile, they're building him, making money, the fights will come. Nobody is going to be looking back on his career when it's over and saying 'decent fighter, but he sure did spend three years at the start of his career fighting sub-standard opposition!' Trust me.

didn't mind hattons WBU run that much, he needed seasoning and that gave it to him without a real title being on the line, Joshua on the other hand also needs seasoning but he is getting it with a genuine title up for grabs which devalues the said title, its alright for us in the know but the uneducated fans are being sold a dud product

You could not be more wrong, the product is AJ and he sells regardless of opponent. The matchroom audience for boxing is satisfied by seeing their celebrity hero ko someone, that's all they know and all they need. They go away happy and sign up in ever increasing numbers the next time.

Molina is business as usual for AJ and matchroom, not despite the fans but because of the fans.

We might not like it , for our taste it may be a dud as you say but don't go projecting your values on a audience that's got little in common with actual boxing fans.

It reminds me of the difference between being at frimley green for the BDO darts surrounded by darts fans and being at a PDC event surrounded by guys on the piss who are just there for a night out.

T w_savage wrote:

littlepug wrote:

Riddick Blowe wrote:The thing is. The people that complain need to calm down. They always do when the fights eventually get made. Joshua isn't going to be ducking top competition for ever. Molina isn't the best obviously, but the fights will happen.

This isn't a Hatton and his WBU bum of the month tour situation that was still rolling on SEVEN YEARS after he turned pro. Joshua has been pro for 3 years. After 3 years Lennox was still fighting the likes of Mike Dixon (although he stepped up shortly afterwards). Can't even begin to imagine the bums Wlad must have been fighting. Joshua isn't the 'world champion', so no point judging him on that paper title. Put things into context.

He's high profile, they're building him, making money, the fights will come. Nobody is going to be looking back on his career when it's over and saying 'decent fighter, but he sure did spend three years at the start of his career fighting sub-standard opposition!' Trust me.

didn't mind hattons WBU run that much, he needed seasoning and that gave it to him without a real title being on the line, Joshua on the other hand also needs seasoning but he is getting it with a genuine title up for grabs which devalues the said title, its alright for us in the know but the uneducated fans are being sold a dud product

You could not be more wrong, the product is AJ and he sells regardless of opponent. The matchroom audience for boxing is satisfied by seeing their celebrity hero ko someone, that's all they know and all they need. They go away happy and sign up in ever increasing numbers the next time.

Molina is business as usual for AJ and matchroom, not despite the fans but because of the fans.

We might not like it , for our taste it may be a dud as you say but don't go projecting your values on a audience that's got little in common with actual boxing fans.

It reminds me of the difference between being at frimley green for the BDO darts surrounded by darts fans and being at a PDC event surrounded by guys on the piss who are just there for a night out.

This is part of the problem when lads are becoming "cross over stars" before they have had their apprenticeship, Joshuas profile is too far ahead of his ability, they are marketing him as a boxing powerhouse before he has even learned his trade, lennox lewis had fought gary mason and razor Ruddock before he got his hands on a title so at least you knew he could fight, but if Joshua is the "product" like you say then we are in trouble, because when your packing stadiums and selling out ppvs based on the name of one fighter who isn't even the finished article yet then as a promoter you don't even need "proper" boxing fans anymore.

If this was a non title fight not on PPV it would be a fantastic fight.

Molina is acceptable for this stage of his career. The fact he's defending a title against unworthy title challengers and it costs £16 to watch it is what's unsettling for fans.

lefthook82 wrote:

Tarkus wrote:

BitPlayer wrote:Don't get me wrong, it sucks they do, but they only do it because it makes sense, and it makes sense because of many of very fans that complain about it.

How often do people fail to give credit to those that fight the best, while giving it to those that fought no one? If people kept their ratings of fighters more closely tied to who they've actually beat, then fighters would take harder fights more often, it's make more sense. But why would they when people will claim you are an ATG because of how good you looked knocking out someone not even close to world level?

That makes no sense at all.

Glad I'm not only one who is confused.

x2 My head can't get my brain around this.

PredatorHayds wrote:If this was a non title fight not on PPV it would be a fantastic fight.

Fantastic? Really?

Horse wrote:

PredatorHayds wrote:If this was a non title fight not on PPV it would be a fantastic fight.

Fantastic? Really?

If Joshua wasn't world champion it would be a exciting fight to gauge how he stands at world level compared to Wilder.
The fact he's already IBF champion and all his fights are on PPV means this fight shouldn't of been made.

littlepug wrote:Joshuas profile is too far ahead of his ability

Who says?

Joshua having a prominent profile is good for boxing. Whether he ‘deserves’ it or is ‘ready’ for it is irrelevant (and highly subjective). Why is this so hard for people to understand?