BoxRec

Not only is it legal now, it's scored more favourably than punches by they pensioners they get to sit ringside.

exactly, well pointed out. holding nowadays is called "great technique" and floyd and ward who hold a lot are therefore "great technicians" lol

Ricky_ wrote:Not only is it legal now, it's scored more favourably than punches by they pensioners they get to sit ringside.

If that is true, Krusher was robbed.

Krusher held Ward for the first half of the fight to prevent Ward from working on the inside. So if you're going to criticise holding, both men were at fault.

Enlightened-One wrote:Krusher held Ward for the first half of the fight to prevent Ward from working on the inside. So if you're going to criticise holding, both men were at fault.

So what you're saying is Kovalev pulled Ward in closer and pushed him up against the ropes etc to stop Ward holding and hitting. Something he consistently does even though it's against the rules?

It was pretty ugly and annoying to watch

p4p1 wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:Krusher held Ward for the first half of the fight to prevent Ward from working on the inside. So if you're going to criticise holding, both men were at fault.

So what you're saying is Kovalev pulled Ward in closer and pushed him up against the ropes etc to stop Ward holding and hitting. Something he consistently does even though it's against the rules?

If you think the holding or any illegal tactic was one-sided, you are biased.

Both men did an equal number of holds, low blows, rabbit punches.
It was even.

Get back to the scoring debate.
This is just Ward hate.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:

p4p1 wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:Krusher held Ward for the first half of the fight to prevent Ward from working on the inside. So if you're going to criticise holding, both men were at fault.

So what you're saying is Kovalev pulled Ward in closer and pushed him up against the ropes etc to stop Ward holding and hitting. Something he consistently does even though it's against the rules?

If you think the holding or any illegal tactic was one-sided, you are biased.

Both men did an equal number of holds, low blows, rabbit punches.
It was even.

Get back to the scoring debate.
This is just Ward hate.

I was stating that Kovalev had to employ a tactic to deal with Ward being allowed to consistently break the rules. He wasn't effective enough though he should've rag-dolled Ward when they clinched. The referee was terrible and wouldn't have done anything.

p4p1 wrote:I was stating that Kovalev had to employ a tactic to deal with Ward being allowed to consistently break the rules. He wasn't effective enough though he should've rag-dolled Ward when they clinched. The referee was terrible and wouldn't have done anything.

Get off it man.
It was a rough fight both ways.
You just sound stupid and mad.

Kovalev fought an excellent fight.

Kovalev initiated just as many clinches as ward if not more. You people are blind. Literally almost anytime ward got within close range kovaleve immediately grabbed and smothered him. It was kind of like how Amir khan fought devon and collazo.

Kovalev has no inside game--thats why he prevents anyone from fighting at that range. There, I said it.

Cygnus475 wrote:Kovalev initiated just as many clinches as ward if not more. You people are blind. Literally almost anytime ward got within close range kovaleve immediately grabbed and smothered him. It was kind of like how Amir khan fought devon and collazo.

Kovalev has no inside game--thats why he prevents anyone from fighting at that range. There, I said it.

Why aren't more people at least seeing the Kovalev clinching part?

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:

Cygnus475 wrote:Kovalev initiated just as many clinches as ward if not more. You people are blind. Literally almost anytime ward got within close range kovaleve immediately grabbed and smothered him. It was kind of like how Amir khan fought devon and collazo.

Kovalev has no inside game--thats why he prevents anyone from fighting at that range. There, I said it.

Why aren't more people at least seeing the Kovalev clinching part?

It was totally 2 way and I actually found it intriguing and didn't detract from things.

I suspect however, no matter how even the wrestling was, people see it as Wards fault, as he is more probe to it and Kovalev only used it so much because he knew it was a tactic Ward would deploy, so he tied him up and used his size and strength. Because let's be honest, Kovalev would have had that fight fought at mid to full range for 12 rounds, where he could let his hands go

But it certainly was not a one sided affair

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:

Cygnus475 wrote:Kovalev initiated just as many clinches as ward if not more. You people are blind. Literally almost anytime ward got within close range kovaleve immediately grabbed and smothered him. It was kind of like how Amir khan fought devon and collazo.

Kovalev has no inside game--thats why he prevents anyone from fighting at that range. There, I said it.

Why aren't more people at least seeing the Kovalev clinching part?

Because of perception. Theres a narrative and people refuse to look at it outside of this picture they've painted.

The slugger nowadays is always the brave warrior and a victim in any fight that goes the distance whether it was close or not. Their fans are the biggest whiners ironically. They get the benefit of the doubt even if they are unable to adapt or most of their punches are blocked on the arms or clearly miss the crowd goes crazy and you have weird punch stats.

The technician or speedy fighters are automatically "cowards", "duckers", "runners", "grabbers", and homosexuals...even if they land more punches or score a knockdown. In Ward's case he didnt even initiate that many clinches he had to complain to the ref about kov squeezing his neck and the ref gave kov at least two warnings.

Some people were influenced to think this way by charismatic commentators, writers, and posters. Others know the truth but refuse to admit it.

Enlightened-One wrote:Krusher held Ward for the first half of the fight to prevent Ward from working on the inside. So if you're going to criticise holding, both men were at fault.

Cygnus475 wrote:

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:

Cygnus475 wrote:Kovalev initiated just as many clinches as ward if not more. You people are blind. Literally almost anytime ward got within close range kovaleve immediately grabbed and smothered him. It was kind of like how Amir khan fought devon and collazo.

Kovalev has no inside game--thats why he prevents anyone from fighting at that range. There, I said it.

Why aren't more people at least seeing the Kovalev clinching part?

Because of perception. Theres a narrative and people refuse to look at it outside of this picture they've painted.

The slugger nowadays is always the brave warrior and a victim in any fight that goes the distance whether it was close or not. Their fans are the biggest whiners ironically. They get the benefit of the doubt even if they are unable to adapt or most of their punches are blocked on the arms or clearly miss the crowd goes crazy and you have weird punch stats.

The technician or speedy fighters are automatically "cowards", "duckers", "runners", "grabbers", and homosexuals...even if they land more punches or score a knockdown. In Ward's case he didnt even initiate that many clinches he had to complain to the ref about kov squeezing his neck and the ref gave kov at least two warnings.

Some people were influenced to think this way by charismatic commentators, writers, and posters. Others know the truth but refuse to admit it.

I haven't seen ward-kov yet, but as a general comment you are very much on-point here

Holding/clinching or whatever you want to call it is a skill in itself, ok its not the prettiest sight but still a necessary part of a fighters arsenal

Elbowing a guy in the face isn't part of boxing.

Cinephile wrote:Elbowing a guy in the face isn't part of boxing.

You do what you can get away with, its not a tickling contest

littlepug wrote:Holding/clinching or whatever you want to call it is a skill in itself, ok its not the prettiest sight but still a necessary part of a fighters arsenal

You hit the nail on the head here.

I agree it's a skill. Takes a very good technician like Ward, Floyd or Bhop to tie a guy up.

But.... it's ILLEGAL. it's supposed to be against the rules.

But it's not only fair game to the refs now but the judges score in favour if it.

Boxing is about punching/blocking/slipping. Take that grappling shit to the UFC.

littlepug wrote:Holding/clinching or whatever you want to call it is a skill in itself, ok its not the prettiest sight but still a necessary part of a fighters arsenal

you obviously dont know the rules of boxing.

Rules

To be a fair stand-up boxing match in a 24-foot ring, or as near that size as practicable.
No wrestling or hugging allowed.
The rounds to be of three minutes' duration, and one minute's time between rounds.
If either man falls through weakness or otherwise, he must get up unassisted, 10 seconds to be allowed him to do so, the other man meanwhile to return to his corner, and when the fallen man is on his legs the round is to be resumed and continued until the three minutes have expired. If one man fails to come to the scratch in the 10 seconds allowed, it shall be in the power of the referee to give his award in favour of the other man.
A man hanging on the ropes in a helpless state, with his toes off the ground, shall be considered down.
No seconds or any other person to be allowed in the ring during the rounds.
Should the contest be stopped by any unavoidable interference, the referee to name the time and place as soon as possible for finishing the contest; so that the match must be won and lost, unless the backers of both men agree to draw the stakes.
The gloves to be fair-sized boxing gloves of the best quality and new.
Should a glove burst, or come off, it must be replaced to the referee's satisfaction.
A man on one knee is considered down and if struck is entitled to the stakes.
That no shoes or boots with spikes or sprigs be allowed.
The contest in all other respects to be governed by revised London Prize Ring Rules.

Other rules

Boxers are prohibited from hitting below the belt, holding, tripping, pushing, biting, spitting on or wrestling their opponent.

so ward did 4 things very often. he did punch below the belt or to kovalevs back while clinching, holding and wreslting.

Violations

Violations of these boxing rules may be ruled a “foul” by the referee, who may issue warnings, deduct points


the rules of boxing are very easy to understand. refs nowadays simply dont know the rules, otherwise they would deduct points for excessive holding.

p4p1 wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:Krusher held Ward for the first half of the fight to prevent Ward from working on the inside. So if you're going to criticise holding, both men were at fault.

So what you're saying is Kovalev pulled Ward in closer and pushed him up against the ropes etc to stop Ward holding and hitting. Something he consistently does even though it's against the rules?

The vast makority of the time, during the first half of the bout, Kovalev clinched.

Jip wrote:

littlepug wrote:Holding/clinching or whatever you want to call it is a skill in itself, ok its not the prettiest sight but still a necessary part of a fighters arsenal

you obviously dont know the rules of boxing.

Rules

To be a fair stand-up boxing match in a 24-foot ring, or as near that size as practicable.
No wrestling or hugging allowed.
The rounds to be of three minutes' duration, and one minute's time between rounds.
If either man falls through weakness or otherwise, he must get up unassisted, 10 seconds to be allowed him to do so, the other man meanwhile to return to his corner, and when the fallen man is on his legs the round is to be resumed and continued until the three minutes have expired. If one man fails to come to the scratch in the 10 seconds allowed, it shall be in the power of the referee to give his award in favour of the other man.
A man hanging on the ropes in a helpless state, with his toes off the ground, shall be considered down.
No seconds or any other person to be allowed in the ring during the rounds.
Should the contest be stopped by any unavoidable interference, the referee to name the time and place as soon as possible for finishing the contest; so that the match must be won and lost, unless the backers of both men agree to draw the stakes.
The gloves to be fair-sized boxing gloves of the best quality and new.
Should a glove burst, or come off, it must be replaced to the referee's satisfaction.
A man on one knee is considered down and if struck is entitled to the stakes.
That no shoes or boots with spikes or sprigs be allowed.
The contest in all other respects to be governed by revised London Prize Ring Rules.

Yes I do, I'm not saying its not illegal but fighters will do what they need to do cross the finishing line and if that means bending the rules then so be it, a bit like real life really

littlepug wrote:

Jip wrote:

littlepug wrote:Holding/clinching or whatever you want to call it is a skill in itself, ok its not the prettiest sight but still a necessary part of a fighters arsenal

you obviously dont know the rules of boxing.

Rules

To be a fair stand-up boxing match in a 24-foot ring, or as near that size as practicable.
No wrestling or hugging allowed.
The rounds to be of three minutes' duration, and one minute's time between rounds.
If either man falls through weakness or otherwise, he must get up unassisted, 10 seconds to be allowed him to do so, the other man meanwhile to return to his corner, and when the fallen man is on his legs the round is to be resumed and continued until the three minutes have expired. If one man fails to come to the scratch in the 10 seconds allowed, it shall be in the power of the referee to give his award in favour of the other man.
A man hanging on the ropes in a helpless state, with his toes off the ground, shall be considered down.
No seconds or any other person to be allowed in the ring during the rounds.
Should the contest be stopped by any unavoidable interference, the referee to name the time and place as soon as possible for finishing the contest; so that the match must be won and lost, unless the backers of both men agree to draw the stakes.
The gloves to be fair-sized boxing gloves of the best quality and new.
Should a glove burst, or come off, it must be replaced to the referee's satisfaction.
A man on one knee is considered down and if struck is entitled to the stakes.
That no shoes or boots with spikes or sprigs be allowed.
The contest in all other respects to be governed by revised London Prize Ring Rules.

Yes I do, I'm not saying its not illegal but fighters will do what they need to do cross the finishing line and if that means bending the rules then so be it, a bit like real life really

its the refs fault...they dont enforce the rules. yet still shame on ward for boxing illegal and dirty.

Jip wrote:

littlepug wrote:Holding/clinching or whatever you want to call it is a skill in itself, ok its not the prettiest sight but still a necessary part of a fighters arsenal

you obviously dont know the rules of boxing.

Rules

To be a fair stand-up boxing match in a 24-foot ring, or as near that size as practicable.
No wrestling or hugging allowed.
The rounds to be of three minutes' duration, and one minute's time between rounds.
If either man falls through weakness or otherwise, he must get up unassisted, 10 seconds to be allowed him to do so, the other man meanwhile to return to his corner, and when the fallen man is on his legs the round is to be resumed and continued until the three minutes have expired. If one man fails to come to the scratch in the 10 seconds allowed, it shall be in the power of the referee to give his award in favour of the other man.
A man hanging on the ropes in a helpless state, with his toes off the ground, shall be considered down.
No seconds or any other person to be allowed in the ring during the rounds.
Should the contest be stopped by any unavoidable interference, the referee to name the time and place as soon as possible for finishing the contest; so that the match must be won and lost, unless the backers of both men agree to draw the stakes.
The gloves to be fair-sized boxing gloves of the best quality and new.
Should a glove burst, or come off, it must be replaced to the referee's satisfaction.
A man on one knee is considered down and if struck is entitled to the stakes.
That no shoes or boots with spikes or sprigs be allowed.
The contest in all other respects to be governed by revised London Prize Ring Rules.

No shoes or boots with spikes?