BoxRec

Of course I have to start with the disclaimer that CompuBox isn't 100% accurate and isn't a good way to score a fight, but nonetheless, I think these numbers look pretty accurate:

http://www.BS.com/andre-ward-v ... ts--110941

Some interesting things to take away:

- In terms of punches landed, it's 6 rounds apiece.
- In terms of power punches landed, it's 7-5 Kovalev.
- In terms of jabs landed, it's 5-4 Ward with 3 rounds even.
- Kovalev threw more punches in every round, except the 7th.
- Ward had the more effective jab, though he used it less.
- Discounting the 2nd round, Ward has a 113-110 edge in punches landed for the rest of the fight.
- Eight of the 12 rounds (1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 11 and 12) had less than two punches the difference. Four of these were scored for Kovalev, four for Ward.
- All three judges (mistakedly IMO) scored the 10th to Ward, although he was out-thrown and outlanded in both jabs and power punches.

jezzamundo wrote:Of course I have to start with the disclaimer that CompuBox isn't 100% accurate and isn't a good way to score a fight, but nonetheless, I think these numbers look pretty accurate:

http://www.BS.com/andre-ward-v ... ts--110941

Some interesting things to take away:

- In terms of punches landed, it's 6 rounds apiece.
- In terms of power punches landed, it's 7-5 Kovalev.
- In terms of jabs landed, it's 5-4 Ward with 3 rounds even.
- Kovalev threw more punches in every round, except the 7th.
- Ward had the more effective jab, though he used it less.
- Discounting the 2nd round, Ward has a 113-110 edge in punches landed for the rest of the fight.
- Eight of the 12 rounds (1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 11 and 12) had less than two punches the difference. Four of these were scored for Kovalev, four for Ward.
- All three judges (mistakedly IMO) scored the 10th to Ward, although he was out-thrown and outlanded in both jabs and power punches.

-- Ward did not have the more effective jab.. He was hit with heavier and more effective jabs throughout.. He had the more effective head.

-- Power punches do more damage than jabs.. but Kovalev landed some brutal jabs that knocked Ward back.. and some brutal power punches.

-- You can't "discount" rounds.. Especially the 2nd round because that was a dominant 2-point round for Kovalev.. Kovalev landed better and more punches.

-- "Mistakenly" scoring a round for the house fighter results in taking a point from Kovalev and giving it to Ward -- changing the loser to the winner.

Kalan wrote:

jezzamundo wrote:Of course I have to start with the disclaimer that CompuBox isn't 100% accurate and isn't a good way to score a fight, but nonetheless, I think these numbers look pretty accurate:

http://www.BS.com/andre-ward-v ... ts--110941

Some interesting things to take away:

- In terms of punches landed, it's 6 rounds apiece.
- In terms of power punches landed, it's 7-5 Kovalev.
- In terms of jabs landed, it's 5-4 Ward with 3 rounds even.
- Kovalev threw more punches in every round, except the 7th.
- Ward had the more effective jab, though he used it less.
- Discounting the 2nd round, Ward has a 113-110 edge in punches landed for the rest of the fight.
- Eight of the 12 rounds (1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 11 and 12) had less than two punches the difference. Four of these were scored for Kovalev, four for Ward.
- All three judges (mistakedly IMO) scored the 10th to Ward, although he was out-thrown and outlanded in both jabs and power punches.

-- Ward did not have the more effective jab.. He was hit with heavier and more effective jabs throughout.. He had the more effective head.

-- Power punches do more damage than jabs.. but Kovalev landed some brutal jabs that knocked Ward back.. and some brutal power punches.

-- You can't "discount" rounds.. Especially the 2nd round because that was a dominant 2-point round for Kovalev.. Kovalev landed better and more punches.

-- "Mistakenly" scoring a round for the house fighter results in taking a point from Kovalev and giving it to Ward -- changing the loser to the winner.

I should have said Ward's jab was much more accurate, rather than more effective - Kovalev's jab was certainly the heavier weapon. Of course I realise you can't discount the second round, it was just an interesting statistical point. I'm more than aware that the scoring of the 10th round decided the fight, which is a shame, because Kovalev definitely won that round.

at the end of the day. kovalev landed more punches, he landed the harder punches and he landed a knock down. thats enough to win.

Jip wrote:at the end of the day. kovalev landed more punches, he landed the harder punches and he landed a knock down. thats enough to win.

Boxing is scored round-by-round, so no, it's not necessarily enough to win. If Boxer A clearly wins 5 rounds and scores a KD and Boxer B edges 7 rounds, Boxer B wins the decision.

jezzamundo wrote:

Jip wrote:at the end of the day. kovalev landed more punches, he landed the harder punches and he landed a knock down. thats enough to win.

Boxing is scored round-by-round, so no, it's not necessarily enough to win. If Boxer A clearly wins 5 rounds and scores a KD and Boxer B edges 7 rounds, Boxer B wins the decision.

i think one reason why decisions are
disputed is that the smartness of the
scoring system is not in sync with
human perception. a knockdown feels
like a real big thing emotionally for
fans, but it is only a single point on
the scorecards. a fighter is so behind
in the beginning for seven rounds, but
then has a huge comeback feels and
that makes us feel it is so unfair that
he still loses.

i for one "felt" like kovalev won. to
me he was clearly the stronger, more
confident man and overall more in
control. and still, there were close
rounds, and one close round can
erase the point from the knock down.

i took two things from this: kovalev is
even better than i had expected. to
see ward of all people being hit so
clean and effective took me by real
surprise.

but on the other hand ward really got
his act together after quite a bad start
and managed to be competitive against
a puncher he could not outbox, nor
outsmart.

I'm from the US....and if this is what "America first" looks like, then I'm not on board.

I feel that our judges handed Ward a win, one that's hard to justify.


Anyone feel up to giving the very best defense of this decision? I'd really like to hear the best "Ward advocacy" story that anyone can share.

Seriously if you thought Ward won, Please make the case, one that an open minded person can consider in his behalf.

Otherwise it seems an embarrassment of a decision.

No, the reason why decisions are disputed is that judges favor one of fighters.

jezzamundo wrote:

Jip wrote:at the end of the day. kovalev landed more punches, he landed the harder punches and he landed a knock down. thats enough to win.

Boxing is scored round-by-round, so no, it's not necessarily enough to win. If Boxer A clearly wins 5 rounds and scores a KD and Boxer B edges 7 rounds, Boxer B wins the decision.

This is the Answer and exactly how I scored the fight.

No one paid me and I've been watching fights for 40 years.

I thought Ward won more rounds, but Kovalev won his much more convincingly( and since boxing judging is subjective, you can disagree without it being a robbery)....but until they change how fights are scored, that makes Ward the winner on my card.

jezzamundo wrote:

Jip wrote:at the end of the day. kovalev landed more punches, he landed the harder punches and he landed a knock down. thats enough to win.

Boxing is scored round-by-round, so no, it's not necessarily enough to win. If Boxer A clearly wins 5 rounds and scores a KD and Boxer B edges 7 rounds, Boxer B wins the decision.

BoxBuzz wrote:I'm from the US....and if this is what "America first" looks like, then I'm not on board.

I feel that our judges handed Ward a win, one that's hard to justify.


Anyone feel up to giving the very best defense of this decision? I'd really like to hear the best "Ward advocacy" story that anyone can share.

Seriously if you thought Ward won, Please make the case, one that an open minded person can consider in his behalf.

Otherwise it seems an embarrassment of a decision.

you may be waiting a while

Just insert a bunch of preconceived platitudes about Ward's technical brilliance and 'know how to winness'; dude could lace up his shoes and some people would fawn at how effectively he did it.

I thought Ward would take it comfortably by something like 8-4, but I think he was judged very generously, including him dubiously getting the 10th on every card when he did little more than fail with bolos. Skill-wise he certainly wasn't levels above Kov, and power was a no contest.

jezzamundo wrote:

Jip wrote:at the end of the day. kovalev landed more punches, he landed the harder punches and he landed a knock down. thats enough to win.

Boxing is scored round-by-round, so no, it's not necessarily enough to win. If Boxer A clearly wins 5 rounds and scores a KD and Boxer B edges 7 rounds, Boxer B wins the decision.

in order to win a UD, a boxer needs to win 7 rounds, in wards case, since the knock down 8. you cant tell me ward won 7-8 rounds, they dont exist, 5 at best.

No, even with the KD, he still only needs to win 7.

My card

Ward-3,5,7,8,9,11,12

Kovalev-1,2,4,6,10

Round ten was the proof of the pudding, that the decision was fake. Almost everyone agrees that Kovalev won round ten, but all three of the judge impersonators put their muzzles together and gave it to Ward. They were told in their earphones that he needs the numbers, give it to him, so they did.

BoxBuzz wrote:I'm from the US....and if this is what "America first" looks like, then I'm not on board.

I feel that our judges handed Ward a win, one that's hard to justify.


Anyone feel up to giving the very best defense of this decision? I'd really like to hear the best "Ward advocacy" story that anyone can share.

Seriously if you thought Ward won, Please make the case, one that an open minded person can consider in his behalf.

Otherwise it seems an embarrassment of a decision.

Do your own homework. The case has been made every which way since before the decision was announced.

x2x wrote:Round ten was the proof of the pudding, that the decision was fake. Almost everyone agrees that Kovalev won round ten, but all three of the judge impersonators put their muzzles together and gave it to Ward. They were told in their earphones that he needs the numbers, give it to him, so they did.

It proves nothing. It was a close round, that I scored for Krusher.

I struggle to see how any fair judge could think that Ward did more than Kovalev in the 10th, whether there was a lot of action or not.

Tanzio wrote:

x2x wrote:Round ten was the proof of the pudding, that the decision was fake. Almost everyone agrees that Kovalev won round ten, but all three of the judge impersonators put their muzzles together and gave it to Ward. They were told in their earphones that he needs the numbers, give it to him, so they did.

It proves nothing. It was a close round, that I scored for Krusher.

Every honest person scored it for Krusher. All 3 judges scored it for Ward.

x2x wrote:

Tanzio wrote:

x2x wrote:Round ten was the proof of the pudding, that the decision was fake. Almost everyone agrees that Kovalev won round ten, but all three of the judge impersonators put their muzzles together and gave it to Ward. They were told in their earphones that he needs the numbers, give it to him, so they did.

It proves nothing. It was a close round, that I scored for Krusher.

Every honest person scored it for Krusher. All 3 judges scored it for Ward.

Do you know the judges? If you have proof of their dishonesty there is a structure in place to have them investigated and prosecuted. But, you have no evidence, do you? I am not saying that you are wrong. I am simply stating that there is no evidence that these judges did more or less than judge that fight according to what they saw.

Tanzio wrote:

x2x wrote:

Tanzio wrote: It proves nothing. It was a close round, that I scored for Krusher.

Every honest person scored it for Krusher. All 3 judges scored it for Ward.

Do you know the judges? If you have proof of their dishonesty there is a structure in place to have them investigated and prosecuted. But, you have no evidence, do you? I am not saying that you are wrong. I am simply stating that there is no evidence that these judges did more or less than judge that fight according to what they saw.

It may well be an honest judgment on their part. And perhaps a close fight. And you seem to think Ward won.
But in this case, it seems to be a rather if not very controversial decision. Would you agree? Or do you see a clear win for Ward?

Hey....me asking you, is my homework for the day.

jezzamundo wrote:Of course I have to start with the disclaimer that CompuBox isn't 100% accurate and isn't a good way to score a fight, but nonetheless, I think these numbers look pretty accurate:

http://www.BS.com/andre-ward-v ... ts--110941

Some interesting things to take away:

- In terms of punches landed, it's 6 rounds apiece.
- In terms of power punches landed, it's 7-5 Kovalev.
- In terms of jabs landed, it's 5-4 Ward with 3 rounds even.
- Kovalev threw more punches in every round, except the 7th.
- Ward had the more effective jab, though he used it less.
- Discounting the 2nd round, Ward has a 113-110 edge in punches landed for the rest of the fight.
- Eight of the 12 rounds (1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 11 and 12) had less than two punches the difference. Four of these were scored for Kovalev, four for Ward.
- All three judges (mistakedly IMO) scored the 10th to Ward, although he was out-thrown and outlanded in both jabs and power punches.

Thanks, good Intresting post mate intelligently commented

Tanzio wrote:

x2x wrote:Round ten was the proof of the pudding, that the decision was fake. Almost everyone agrees that Kovalev won round ten, but all three of the judge impersonators put their muzzles together and gave it to Ward. They were told in their earphones that he needs the numbers, give it to him, so they did.

It proves nothing. It was a close round, that I scored for Krusher.

It actually proves a lot... If Kovalev deserved that round, then he wins the fight. Seems everyone, except the judges, that watched the fight agree that Kov deserved the 10th round. AN din a close fight, for everyone to have Kov winning that round, it means it was a pretty decisive round.

I'm over it. It was close. Thought Kov deserved it, but bias runs amok. I am guilty of it myself.

BoxBuzz wrote:

Tanzio wrote:

x2x wrote:

Every honest person scored it for Krusher. All 3 judges scored it for Ward.

Do you know the judges? If you have proof of their dishonesty there is a structure in place to have them investigated and prosecuted. But, you have no evidence, do you? I am not saying that you are wrong. I am simply stating that there is no evidence that these judges did more or less than judge that fight according to what they saw.

It may well be an honest judgment on their part. And perhaps a close fight. And you seem to think Ward won.
But in this case, it seems to be a rather if not very controversial decision. Would you agree? Or do you see a clear win for Ward?

Hey....me asking you, is my homework for the day.

I completely agree that it was obviously controversial. I have derided Ward for years and I wanted Krusher to win. I scored it 114-113 Ward on the CS RBR realtime. I would have had no problem with it going to Krusher in a close decision.

I watched and scored it again, sound down and alone, on Sunday night. I saw a 115-112 Ward victory at that time, the difference being I gave Ward round 1, very close. I still have no problem with people seeing it close for Krusher. I really have no problem with those thinking it is a robbery (though I strongly disagree with it). My problem is with those squealing like pigs about it and deriding the combatants (whom deserve nothing but respect) and anyone who thinks differently than they do.

This was not close to a robbery. If it had been I would be arguing that it was.

Maybe each time you watch it you'll get closer to seeing that Ward stoppage you predicted