BoxRec

The old Super 6 Ward is gone and truly gone after that "performance" vs champion Kovalev.

A lot of fans (and boxing experts) seemed to cling to this image of Ward coasting through the super 6 tournament; they refused to see through the cracks, injuries and age that caught up with him.

Abel Sanchez had predicted it.
The fact Ward was awarded the decision cannot erase was we all witnessed: a wary, slower, apprehensive fighter, backpedaling, unable to impose himself on his opponent, prone to being hurt, and whose sole defense relies on head-first lunges and clinches with inefficient body work.

How things change!

Should Ward face Beterbiev, Stevenson, or even Kovalev, we can expect more of the same.

His days at the top are numbered.

His performance was down to how hard Kovalev hit, couldn't impose his offense or he wouldv'e got knocked out.

I think Ward would take Stevenson to school.

Ricky_ wrote:His performance was down to how hard Kovalev hit, couldn't impose his offense or he wouldv'e got knocked out.

I think Ward would take Stevenson to school.

Never.

Ward simply cannot hold a good shot at this weight, and he doesn't hit hard enough to get respect.
He got hurt a dozen times last saturday.
Stevenson has good speed and precision, he could KO Ward cold.

crow wrote:

Ricky_ wrote:His performance was down to how hard Kovalev hit, couldn't impose his offense or he wouldv'e got knocked out.

I think Ward would take Stevenson to school.

Never.

Ward simply cannot hold a good shot at this weight, and he doesn't hit hard enough to get respect.
He got hurt a dozen times last saturday.
Stevenson has good speed and precision, he could KO Ward cold.

Stevenson's overrated in every way. His only punch that has any pop is a telegraphed overhand left. He wouldn't land that shot on Ward. Stevenson is a bit chinny himself and well behind Ward and Kovalev technically, he just isn't an elite fighter. I would fancy Ward to stop Adonis late.

crow wrote:Abel Sanchez was right: the old Super 6 Ward is gone for good

If this was true, why does he regularly lay claim that he'd only allow Golovkin to face Ward at 164lbs, whereas he'll allow GGG to face the following fighters in their natural habitats?

Sanchez would allow GGG to face Froch at 172lbs… GGG wanted Hopkins at 175lbs… GGG wants DeGale at 168lbs… GGG wanted Chavez Jr. at 168lbs… GGG wants Ramirez at 168lbs…

Skip to the 7 second mark:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgh-lkgDpYg

crow wrote:The old Super 6 Ward is gone and truly gone after that "performance" vs champion Kovalev.

A lot of fans (and boxing experts) [refuse] to see through the cracks, injuries and age that caught up with him.

Abel Sanchez had predicted it.
The fact Ward was awarded the decision cannot erase was we all witnessed: a wary, slower, apprehensive fighter, backpedaling, unable to impose himself on his opponent, prone to being hurt, and whose sole defense relies on head-first lunges and clinches with inefficient body work.

How things change!

His days at the top are numbered.

If what you say is true, why does Sanchez demand the 164lb catchweight stipulation? Why doesn't GGG make the jump to earn another three belts at a higher weight-class if you deem Andre Ward to be total utter garbage?

crow wrote:The old Super 6 Ward is gone and truly gone after that "performance" vs champion Kovalev.

A lot of fans (and boxing experts) seemed to cling to this image of Ward coasting through the super 6 tournament; they refused to see through the cracks, injuries and age that caught up with him.

Abel Sanchez had predicted it.
The fact Ward was awarded the decision cannot erase was we all witnessed: a wary, slower, apprehensive fighter, backpedaling, unable to impose himself on his opponent, prone to being hurt, and whose sole defense relies on head-first lunges and clinches with inefficient body work.

Those body shots hurt Kovalev. Did you hear him coughing everytime he went back to the corner? Amd he tried to block any further body shots by lowering his guard which is where Ward managed to land clean to his face.. Ward backpedaling is him going in and then out, it's his ring awareness.

Also, Sanchez should stop talking so much. He doesn't need to mention GGG's name everyday to keep him relevant, he already is. His crap talk doesn't help GGG.

Ruthless-RKO wrote:
Those body shots hurt Kovalev.

Pics or STFU

crow wrote:The old Super 6 Ward is gone and truly gone after that "performance" vs champion Kovalev.

A lot of fans (and boxing experts) seemed to cling to this image of Ward coasting through the super 6 tournament; they refused to see through the cracks, injuries and age that caught up with him.

Abel Sanchez had predicted it.
The fact Ward was awarded the decision cannot erase was we all witnessed: a wary, slower, apprehensive fighter, backpedaling, unable to impose himself on his opponent, prone to being hurt, and whose sole defense relies on head-first lunges and clinches with inefficient body work.

How things change!

Should Ward face Beterbiev, Stevenson, or even Kovalev, we can expect more of the same.

His days at the top are numbered.

I'll start by saying that I thought Kovalev was robbed. I had him winning by AT LEAST 2 points after scoring it twice and being more than favorable to Ward in exchanges.

Ward ending up impressing the hell out of me. After those horrendous first two rounds, Ward actually kept getting stronger. It reminded me of Floyd where it was a matter of time before he figured out his opponent in the fight and from that round on, his opponent looked outmatched. Ward's left hook was sharp and ended up winning him a lot of rounds late. Kovalev stopped throwing the right hand until it was too late.

My point is that anyone pointing to Ward's ability declining needs to take into account that:

a. Ward has only had a few fights at Light Heavy.
b. Ward was fighting perhaps the best light heavyweight in the history of boxing.

Ward's never been a puncher so I wasn't surprised that he wasn't landing any right hands with significance. But i was impressed with his quickness and his heart to come back from that start. I honestly think that Ward has Kovalev figured out now and a rematch would be exactly what we saw from round 6 on. Now anyone that can do that to Kovalev deserves credit even though i can't stand him or the decision that judges made that night.

Regarding Stevenson; if anything, he's underrated at this point.

crow wrote:

Ricky_ wrote:His performance was down to how hard Kovalev hit, couldn't impose his offense or he wouldv'e got knocked out.

I think Ward would take Stevenson to school.

Never.

Ward simply cannot hold a good shot at this weight, and he doesn't hit hard enough to get respect.
He got hurt a dozen times last saturday.
Stevenson has good speed and precision, he could KO Ward cold.

I agree with a lot you say but Ward not being able to hold a shot is crazy, you can't deny he showed great heart to come back from that knockdown, and at least get back into the fight, even though he clearly lost.

Ward would beat Stevenson comfortably.

caldo2025 wrote:. After those horrendous first two rounds, Ward actually kept getting stronger.
Ward's left hook was sharp and ended up winning him a lot of rounds late.
I honestly think that Ward has Kovalev figured out now and a rematch would be exactly what we saw from round 6 on.

I'm not saying Ward has got no ability whatsoever.

He does have weapons. But for him to make them count, he needs a referee that will allow him to lunge in head first and headbutt his foes, then clinch and ineffectively flurry, and then rely on hometown judging.

Rince and repeat.
With these tactics, anybody can be a world beater.

Molina used the same tactic against Kirkland minus the lunge-headbutt. It only worked for awhile.

Ward never was a great fighter because he always relied on breaking the rules in his favor.

Riddick Blowe wrote:
I agree with a lot you say but Ward not being able to hold a shot is crazy

I said a "good shot".

Ward couldn't handle a good shot at super middle.
His whole style centers around safety and not getting into exchanges.

crow wrote:

Riddick Blowe wrote:
I agree with a lot you say but Ward not being able to hold a shot is crazy

I said a "good shot".

Ward couldn't handle a good shot at super middle.
His whole style centers around safety and not getting into exchanges.

no disgrace in being dropped by kovalev, he got back up and continued didn't he?

crow wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:. After those horrendous first two rounds, Ward actually kept getting stronger.
Ward's left hook was sharp and ended up winning him a lot of rounds late.
I honestly think that Ward has Kovalev figured out now and a rematch would be exactly what we saw from round 6 on.

I'm not saying Ward has got no ability whatsoever.

He does have weapons. But for him to make them count, he needs a referee that will allow him to lunge in head first and headbutt his foes, then clinch and ineffectively flurry, and then rely on hometown judging.

Rince and repeat.
With these tactics, anybody can be a world beater.

Molina used the same tactic against Kirkland minus the lunge-headbutt. It only worked for awhile.

Ward never was a great fighter because he always relied on breaking the rules in his favor.

He's got that Floyd round winning style. He just looks flashy.

I definitely think that the ref was horrible and too old to consistently control the action and that benefited Ward. But I just don't think that you're giving Ward enough credit for what he was able to do to one of the best fighters in the history of the division. Again, Ward didn't win in my mind but he did way better than anyone else has against Kovalev. After being idle for so long and only being at this weight for a few fights against pale opposition, i couldn't believe how well he did. Just finishing a fight with this guy is something but to win multiple rounds and be in a close fight with him shows that the guy's got world class talent. No doubt in my mind and I've always considered Ward to be overrated with that Super 6 victory against ok fighters.

crow wrote:

Riddick Blowe wrote:
I agree with a lot you say but Ward not being able to hold a shot is crazy

I said a "good shot".

Ward couldn't handle a good shot at super middle.
His whole style centers around safety and not getting into exchanges.

How could he not hold a good shot? You really lack evidence on that claim imo.

I'm no Ward fan but I still rate him as a great fighter, there's no need to skew reality here regarding his toughness, chin, resolve or durability.

He was just dropped by the biggest punching monster the LHW division has ever seen, and it was a shot he ate on the short-trajectory. He got up well inside the count and rode out the round on shakey legs. I'd go as far as to say Floyd was hurt much worse vs Sugar Shane than Ward was vs Kovalev or Boone. To come out the other end of fights with guys like Kovalev, Froch and Kessler and only to have briefly touched the canvas twice with such a resume, doesn't say "weak chin" in anyone's language. Marquez was down loads of times in his career and I'd say he has the best chin I've seen in the modern era.

Ward's chin and powers of recovery are more than adequate for the elite level at which he boxes. The point with Stevenson is that he wouldn't land his only hurtful punch on Ward, or anyone with an elite level defence for that matter. You see it coming a mile off. Stevenson is a B level fighter.

Ricky_ wrote: How could he not hold a good shot? You really lack evidence on that claim imo.

Ward was wobbled by a simple jab in the very first rd.
Each time Kovalev landed his jab, Ward would wobble.
Ward got hurt a dozen times saturday, and immediately clinched head first to hide it.

Ricky_ wrote:Ward's chin and powers of recovery are more than adequate for the elite level at which he boxes.

Then why did he need to headbutt Kessler once he started tiring late in the fight?
Why does he refuse to fight abroad?
Why is he holding constantly?
Why can't he KO people?

Ricky_ wrote:The point with Stevenson is that he wouldn't land his only hurtful punch on Ward, or anyone with an elite level defence for that matter. You see it coming a mile off. Stevenson is a B level fighter.

I don't like Stevenson either; nothing would please me more than seeing him decked for 5 minutes with his victor celebrating above him, like he did himself.

But the fact remains he's a deadly puncher that has always managed to hurt ALL his opponents at one moment or another. There's a reason Kathy Duva didn't go for the unification.

crow wrote:

Ricky_ wrote: How could he not hold a good shot? You really lack evidence on that claim imo.

Ward was wobbled by a simple jab in the very first rd.
Each time Kovalev landed his jab, Ward would wobble.
Ward got hurt a dozen times saturday, and immediately clinched head first to hide it.

Ricky_ wrote:Ward's chin and powers of recovery are more than adequate for the elite level at which he boxes.

Then why did he need to headbutt Kessler once he started tiring late in the fight?
Why does he refuse to fight abroad?
Why is he holding constantly?
Why can't he KO people?

If Ward is that weak, Kovalev didn't deserve to win.

crow wrote:

Ricky_ wrote: How could he not hold a good shot? You really lack evidence on that claim imo.

Ward was wobbled by a simple jab in the very first rd.
Each time Kovalev landed his jab, Ward would wobble.
Ward got hurt a dozen times saturday, and immediately clinched head first to hide it.

Ricky_ wrote:Ward's chin and powers of recovery are more than adequate for the elite level at which he boxes.

Then why did he need to headbutt Kessler once he started tiring late in the fight?
Why does he refuse to fight abroad?
Why is he holding constantly?
Why can't he KO people?

Ricky_ wrote:The point with Stevenson is that he wouldn't land his only hurtful punch on Ward, or anyone with an elite level defence for that matter. You see it coming a mile off. Stevenson is a B level fighter.

I don't like Stevenson either; nothing would please me more than seeing him decked for 5 minutes with his victor celebrating above him, like he did himself.

But the fact remains he's a deadly puncher that has always managed to hurt ALL his opponents at one moment or another. There's a reason Kathy Duva didn't go for the unification.

So what if he got buzzed by kovalev's jab? who wouldn't, he has sledge hammers in his gloves. Canelo was getting buzzed by Floyd's jab, it led me to think for a while his chin was questionable but he's came out on top with all the punchers he's faced since. When you're wrong, you're wrong.

I dispute Ward was hurt a dozen times, maybe we have a definition of hurt, he was badly hurt in the KD but did well to recover, other than that he was shaken up a few times early. I had money on Kovalev KO, I was on the edge of my seat a couple of times early, thought it was collecting in Round 2, but in truth I had it written off by round 8. I think being hurt early led to Ward boxing within himself, which is why i scored the fight 8-4 Kovalev.

Why are you asking about Ward's KO ability in a discussion about his chin?

As for Stevenson, his chin is weaker than Ward's man, Boone stunned Ward but he stopped Adonis. Nor could i imagine Bika or Fonfara going the distance with Kovalev. Stevenson looks great against the Tomato cans they feed him over at PBC, he doesn't belong in the discussion of Ward/Kovalev.

crow wrote:Abel Sanchez was right: the old Super 6 Ward is gone for good

If this was true, why does he regularly lay claim that he'd only allow Golovkin to face Ward at 164lbs, whereas he'll allow GGG to face the following fighters in their natural habitats?

Sanchez would allow GGG to face Froch at 172lbs… GGG wanted Hopkins at 175lbs… GGG wants DeGale at 168lbs… GGG wanted Chavez Jr. at 168lbs… GGG wants Ramirez at 168lbs…

Skip to the 7 second mark:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgh-lkgDpYg

crow wrote:The old Super 6 Ward is gone and truly gone after that "performance" vs champion Kovalev.

A lot of fans (and boxing experts) [refuse] to see through the cracks, injuries and age that caught up with him.

Abel Sanchez had predicted it.
The fact Ward was awarded the decision cannot erase was we all witnessed: a wary, slower, apprehensive fighter, backpedaling, unable to impose himself on his opponent, prone to being hurt, and whose sole defense relies on head-first lunges and clinches with inefficient body work.

How things change!

His days at the top are numbered.

If what you say is true, why does Sanchez demand the 164lb catchweight stipulation? Why doesn't GGG make the jump to earn another three belts at a higher weight-class if you deem Andre Ward to be total utter garbage?

Ward would make Stevenson look like a novice.

I agree that Ward has lost a little of the athleticism and reflexes he possessed at the peak of his powers during the Super 6. That said, he is still a formidable opponent for anyone at 175lb.

If he were as bad as you seem to think he is, then you clearly can't think too much of Kovalev's abilities? What happened is that both Ward and Kovalev were made to look human in facing by far the best opponents of their respective careers.

Ward would in all likelihood dismantle Stevenson and make him look bad, but Adonis would always have a puncher's chance.

Why anybody would take much notice of blabbermouth Sanchez is beyond me.

crow wrote: Ward got hurt a dozen times saturday

"Pics or STFU"

What do photos prove about being hurt with the exception of on KDs?

Sanchez has an agenda.

caldo2025 wrote:

crow wrote:The old Super 6 Ward is gone and truly gone after that "performance" vs champion Kovalev.

A lot of fans (and boxing experts) seemed to cling to this image of Ward coasting through the super 6 tournament; they refused to see through the cracks, injuries and age that caught up with him.

Abel Sanchez had predicted it.
The fact Ward was awarded the decision cannot erase was we all witnessed: a wary, slower, apprehensive fighter, backpedaling, unable to impose himself on his opponent, prone to being hurt, and whose sole defense relies on head-first lunges and clinches with inefficient body work.

How things change!

Should Ward face Beterbiev, Stevenson, or even Kovalev, we can expect more of the same.

His days at the top are numbered.

I'll start by saying that I thought Kovalev was robbed. I had him winning by AT LEAST 2 points after scoring it twice and being more than favorable to Ward in exchanges.

Ward ending up impressing the hell out of me. After those horrendous first two rounds, Ward actually kept getting stronger. It reminded me of Floyd where it was a matter of time before he figured out his opponent in the fight and from that round on, his opponent looked outmatched. Ward's left hook was sharp and ended up winning him a lot of rounds late. Kovalev stopped throwing the right hand until it was too late.

My point is that anyone pointing to Ward's ability declining needs to take into account that:

a. Ward has only had a few fights at Light Heavy.
b. Ward was fighting perhaps the best light heavyweight in the history of boxing.

Ward's never been a puncher so I wasn't surprised that he wasn't landing any right hands with significance. But i was impressed with his quickness and his heart to come back from that start. I honestly think that Ward has Kovalev figured out now and a rematch would be exactly what we saw from round 6 on. Now anyone that can do that to Kovalev deserves credit even though i can't stand him or the decision that judges made that night.

Some good points there but there's no way that Kovalev can be described as the best light heavyweight in history.

I don't believe Ward has diminished. He was just facing a very very good fighter who didn't allow him to get dirty on the inside.