BoxRec

Why did Foreman run out of gas against Young in San Juan? He was young (no pun intended) back in 1977 and if you watch the fight, unlike in Zaire, GF was pacing himself against JY.

He ran out of gas against Ali because he was loading up on every shot. Anyone who has even worked out as a boxer knows you'll get tired real quickly if you load up on the heavy bag with every shot. But GF was not doing that in the Young fight. I've heard different rumors as to why this occurred. I'd like to hear from you all because I always thought Foreman should have won that fight.

Because the climate was Hot and Muggy(again like Zaire over there in Africa) and he didn't drink enuff Gatorade before the fight.
be my guess.

Style wise, Young was a bad matchup.

Styles make fights!

Styles have a lot to do with it, but why did Foreman get so tired? It's not like he was punching that hard. Someone mentioned the muggy weather. Well, he was in his late 20s and a kid from Houston, he should be able to handle nighttime 80 degree weather.

Foreman had terrible stamina in the 70s, that's what his main problem was.

I think his psyche also had something to do with it too.

Foreman expected results when he swatted his opponents & if the opponent didn't fall, or he couldn't land the damaging shots he liked on his opponents, he'd panic inside which would then lead to fatigue.

It was really a combination of two things.
1. For whatever reason, Foreman was a bit off. At times he looked like his normal self, at times he seemed lethargic. He normally was very agrressive and it always worked except for the Ali fight.
2. Jimmy Young at his best was a great fighter. If anyone has not see his fights with Lyle and Norton, they should.

Young was a very talented!

History happened!

Tony1244 wrote:Why did Foreman run out of gas against Young in San Juan? He was young (no pun intended) back in 1977 and if you watch the fight, unlike in Zaire, GF was pacing himself against JY.

He ran out of gas against Ali because he was loading up on every shot. Anyone who has even worked out as a boxer knows you'll get tired real quickly if you load up on the heavy bag with every shot. But GF was not doing that in the Young fight. I've heard different rumors as to why this occurred. I'd like to hear from you all because I always thought Foreman should have won that fight.

As others have stated here, it was a combination of things.
Jimmy Young's style being #1. He was a defensive wizard & made Foreman miss. A lot. And even though Foreman may not have been loading up on his punches as much as he used to, he was still missing most of his punches & missing punches wears a fighter out.
Plus, after Jimmy Young survived Foreman's onslaught after George hurt him, I believe that it got in Foreman's head & he may have begun having Ali flashbacks.

Plus the heat/humidity was huge as well. I think it was a whole lot hotter that the 80s ( although, at the moment, I'm not sure of the exact temp ) & it sapped him. Badly in the latter rounds.

Also, Foreman may not have been in the very best shape.
He was back to destroying all of his opposition again & I think it went to his head & that he may have slacked off a bit in training.

All interesting responses. In both the Ali and Young fights, GF neglected his jab and he had quite a good one. Zach Clayton let Ali get away with a lot of holding and the ref in the Young fight let Jimmy bend over all the time but warned Foreman for everything.

Big George got his ass kicked and that was all to it. The same happened to The Greatest, but, Jimmy Young go dicked by the judge$$$. He gave both of them a boxing lesson!

elmersalsa wrote:Big George got his ass kicked and that was all to it. The same happened to The Greatest, but, Jimmy Young go dicked by the judge$$$. He gave both of them a boxing lesson!

Jimmy played it straight with George as well...no "drama" with the head poking out of the ring.....which in Georges case would seem reasonable. I think the clowning annoyed the judges, as they searched for an excuse to give it to Ali. Young has no one else to blame, because that nonsense placed doubt or "excuse" in the judges minds and hands.

BoxBuzz wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:Big George got his ass kicked and that was all to it. The same happened to The Greatest, but, Jimmy Young go dicked by the judge$$$. He gave both of them a boxing lesson!

Jimmy played it straight with George as well...no "drama" with the head poking out of the ring.....which in Georges case would seem reasonable. I think the clowning annoyed the judges, as they searched for an excuse to give it to Ali. Young has no one else to blame, because that nonsense placed doubt or "excuse" in the judges minds and hands.

I don't care what anybody says. Jimmy Young gave two all time greats a boxing lesson that they never forgot.

sweetviolenturge wrote:As others have stated here, it was a combination of things.
Jimmy Young's style being #1. He was a defensive wizard & made Foreman miss. A lot. And even though Foreman may not have been loading up on his punches as much as he used to, he was still missing most of his punches & missing punches wears a fighter out.
Plus, after Jimmy Young survived Foreman's onslaught after George hurt him, I believe that it got in Foreman's head & he may have begun having Ali flashbacks.

Plus the heat/humidity was huge as well. I think it was a whole lot hotter that the 80s ( although, at the moment, I'm not sure of the exact temp ) & it sapped him. Badly in the latter rounds.

Also, Foreman may not have been in the very best shape.
He was back to destroying all of his opposition again & I think it went to his head & that he may have slacked off a bit in training.

Definitely a combination of things - I think that sums it all up nicely.

George was overly big, overly muscled.

Guys like that who tend to swing for the fences much of the time, tend to run out of gas if forced to go rounds.

This is especially true in the heat and humidity of San Juan, just as it was in Zaire.

And Foreman really shot his wad in the 7th when he had Young on the verge of a KO.

After that his tank was pretty empty.

Idk what happened leading up to the fight...i do know in his biography george said don king confronted him and asked him to not "end things too quickly for the sake of the sponsors and commerial ads". Foreman also said he wanted to prove he could go the distance and had boxing skill (Ali and others questioned it). Perhaps the training camp had one agenda but Foreman had another? Maybe Gill Clancey was not preparing foreman for a distance fight and foreman stubbornly decided to outbox a boxer? Happens all the time.

Regardless of the circumstances, this is how i scored it

R1-young 10/9 landed at least 5-6 body shots, controlled the pace. Maintained a strategy of either staying just out of range or smothering on the inside. Landed a few jabs to the head and kept them flicking out to control space. Foreman stalked and landed a few decent jabs of his own but not much else. Young blocked foremans left hook to the body. Foreman hits on the break toward the end and is booed.

R2-foreman 10/9 much more action. Foreman lands some sledgehammer rights and roughs young up. For a minute i thought he was gonna knock him out. Young held on and continues scoring with jabs to the head and body.

R3-young 10/9 only because the ref deducted a point from foreman for manhandling and pushing young down for a fake kd. Foreman actually boxed very well this round, on his toes and using the jab. Id score it for him otherwise.

R4-id score it even. Neither fighter had much control of the pace or landed more. Lots of wrestling.

R5-young 10/9 not much action in this round either but young seemed to be in more control

R6-young 10/9 foreman seems confused and frustrated as young goes full matador on him with parries and sidestepping.

R7-foreman 10/9 most action in the fight so far. Foreman opens up with a sledgehammer hook that sends young stumblin halfway across the ring, then nails him with a right. Young can do nothing against the ropes as hes battered before suddenly waking up and timing foreman. He lands excellent right counters to foremans own right. Foreman lands a vicious body shot and they trade. What a round.

R8-young 10/9 surprisingly young becomes the aggressor and lands two overhand rights. They wrestle a bit and young displays his superior inside fighting with lots of parrying, body shots, and two crisp left hooks. Young amcontinues moving around and foreman doesnt land anything significant until just before the bell with a good right.

R9- similar to the last round. Foreman did land a good short sharp left uppercut (rarely seen punch) and a few body shots. Actually, you could almost score it even i wouldnt blame anyone for seeing it for foreman honestly he was the aggressor and landed more power punches. Eff it, even round.

R10-foreman 10/9 foreman manhandles jimmy, lands a good left hook. Boars him head first from corner to corner and lands body shots. Young lands a few left hook counters of his own and does what he can to survive. Its notewortht that while foreman was very aggressive, he also missed several big swings which tired him out even more no doubt.

R11-young 10/9 all jimmy. Masterful boxing.foreman very tired and slow.

R12-young 10/8 well, if anyone had been scoring this fight even, the kd seals it.

Young clearly outboxed foreman, controlled the pace of the fight, made foreman play chess. He wisely invested in body shots early on, landed plenty of jabs sticking and moving. Foreman tried to end things in the 7th and 10th but jimmy was just too resilient and kept turning things around no matter how hurt he got.

Cygnus475 wrote:Idk what happened leading up to the fight...i do know in his biography george said don king confronted him and asked him to not "end things too quickly for the sake of the sponsors and commerial ads". Foreman also said he wanted to prove he could go the distance and had boxing skill (Ali and others questioned it). Perhaps the training camp had one agenda but Foreman had another? Maybe Gill Clancey was not preparing foreman for a distance fight and foreman stubbornly decided to outbox a boxer? Happens all the time.

Regardless of the circumstances, this is how i scored it

R1-young 10/9 landed at least 5-6 body shots, controlled the pace. Maintained a strategy of either staying just out of range or smothering on the inside. Landed a few jabs to the head and kept them flicking out to control space. Foreman stalked and landed a few decent jabs of his own but not much else. Young blocked foremans left hook to the body. Foreman hits on the break toward the end and is booed.

R2-foreman 10/9 much more action. Foreman lands some sledgehammer rights and roughs young up. For a minute i thought he was gonna knock him out. Young held on and continues scoring with jabs to the head and body.

R3-young 10/9 only because the ref deducted a point from foreman for manhandling and pushing young down for a fake kd. Foreman actually boxed very well this round, on his toes and using the jab. Id score it for him otherwise.

R4-id score it even. Neither fighter had much control of the pace or landed more. Lots of wrestling.

R5-young 10/9 not much action in this round either but young seemed to be in more control

R6-young 10/9 foreman seems confused and frustrated as young goes full matador on him with parries and sidestepping.

R7-foreman 10/9 most action in the fight so far. Foreman opens up with a sledgehammer hook that sends young stumblin halfway across the ring, then nails him with a right. Young can do nothing against the ropes as hes battered before suddenly waking up and timing foreman. He lands excellent right counters to foremans own right. Foreman lands a vicious body shot and they trade. What a round.

R8-young 10/9 surprisingly young becomes the aggressor and lands two overhand rights. They wrestle a bit and young displays his superior inside fighting with lots of parrying, body shots, and two crisp left hooks. Young amcontinues moving around and foreman doesnt land anything significant until just before the bell with a good right.

R9- similar to the last round. Foreman did land a good short sharp left uppercut (rarely seen punch) and a few body shots. Actually, you could almost score it even i wouldnt blame anyone for seeing it for foreman honestly he was the aggressor and landed more power punches. Eff it, even round.

R10-foreman 10/9 foreman manhandles jimmy, lands a good left hook. Boars him head first from corner to corner and lands body shots. Young lands a few left hook counters of his own and does what he can to survive. Its notewortht that while foreman was very aggressive, he also missed several big swings which tired him out even more no doubt.

R11-young 10/9 all jimmy. Masterful boxing.foreman very tired and slow.

R12-young 10/8 well, if anyone had been scoring this fight even, the kd seals it.

Young clearly outboxed foreman, controlled the pace of the fight, made foreman play chess. He wisely invested in body shots early on, landed plenty of jabs sticking and moving. Foreman tried to end things in the 7th and 10th but jimmy was just too resilient and kept turning things around no matter how hurt he got.

Great review. Thanks. Too bad GF abandoned his jab in both his first 2 losses. Perhaps Foreman was dehydrated. He talked about not drinking much water in training, which seems quite foolish to me.

Tony1244 wrote:Why did Foreman run out of gas against Young in San Juan? He was young (no pun intended) back in 1977 and if you watch the fight, unlike in Zaire, GF was pacing himself against JY.

He ran out of gas against Ali because he was loading up on every shot. Anyone who has even worked out as a boxer knows you'll get tired real quickly if you load up on the heavy bag with every shot. But GF was not doing that in the Young fight. I've heard different rumors as to why this occurred. I'd like to hear from you all because I always thought Foreman should have won that fight.

What happened?

Foreman didn't have good stamina or speed. Jimmy Young was a slick boxer type with good head movement. So Jimmy out jabbed and out maneuvered Foreman.

pound per pound wrote:

Tony1244 wrote:Why did Foreman run out of gas against Young in San Juan? He was young (no pun intended) back in 1977 and if you watch the fight, unlike in Zaire, GF was pacing himself against JY.

He ran out of gas against Ali because he was loading up on every shot. Anyone who has even worked out as a boxer knows you'll get tired real quickly if you load up on the heavy bag with every shot. But GF was not doing that in the Young fight. I've heard different rumors as to why this occurred. I'd like to hear from you all because I always thought Foreman should have won that fight.

What happened?

Foreman didn't have good stamina or speed. Jimmy Young was a slick boxer type with good head movement. So Jimmy out jabbed and out maneuvered Foreman.

But why did Foreman get so tired? It's like he was doing all that much.

Tony1244 wrote:

pound per pound wrote:

Tony1244 wrote:Why did Foreman run out of gas against Young in San Juan? He was young (no pun intended) back in 1977 and if you watch the fight, unlike in Zaire, GF was pacing himself against JY.

He ran out of gas against Ali because he was loading up on every shot. Anyone who has even worked out as a boxer knows you'll get tired real quickly if you load up on the heavy bag with every shot. But GF was not doing that in the Young fight. I've heard different rumors as to why this occurred. I'd like to hear from you all because I always thought Foreman should have won that fight.

What happened?

Foreman didn't have good stamina or speed. Jimmy Young was a slick boxer type with good head movement. So Jimmy out jabbed and out maneuvered Foreman.

But why did Foreman get so tired? It's like he was doing doing all that much.

Psychological.

Foreman wasn't used to going late in fights & he would panic if his opponent didn't fall & was firing back & outboxing him.

Ali took his soul that night in Zaire & he was never the same again; that's why he took 10 years off.

elmersalsa wrote:Big George got his ass kicked and that was all to it. The same happened to The Greatest, but, Jimmy Young go dicked by the judge$$$. He gave both of them a boxing lesson!

I agree 100%... I've never talked to a knowledgeable boxing pro who thought Ali won that fight legitimately, and Young certainly deserved the Foreman fight.. Jimmy lost 3 of his next 4 fights after beating Foreman. He was a head case like Tyson Fury, And Jimmy sure went down hill quickly.

I've seen 100 Jimmy Young's... Guys who prove themselves and box the crap out of a really top fighter and surprise most people watching.. Sometimes it's in the gym -- and sometimes it's in the ring. They could write their own ticket -- but usually they don't do that because of drugs, women, booze, laziness, or whatever. Everybody knew Buster Douglas could have been a good fighter, but he actually won a championship. Jimmy never turned it up.