BoxRec

Prior to October last year, many people that frequented this forum aggressively derided the PBC and were even celebrating the rumour that it had gone out of business, despite the fact that Al Haymon was paying for the privilege to televise our beloved sport on several major US free-to-air networks.

A few months ago, the host of HBO’s ‘The Fight Game’, Jim Lampley, was very critical of the PBC and even boasted about the format of fight cards being televised by subscription channels were far superior than what was being presented by the commercial free-to-air networks.

He seemed to relish the “likelihood” of Al Haymon’s fighters becoming free agents and stated that there was far more to running a successful television boxing series than spending big money.

A few weeks later, the PBC announced their fight schedule:

• Date = 12/11/16; Network = Spike; Garcia vs. Vargas; Title = Non-title bout
• Date = 10/12/16; Network = Showtime; Mares vs. Cuellar; Title = WBA World featherweight title
• Date = 10/12/16; Network = Showtime; Williams vs. Charlo; Title = IBF World super welterweight title
• Date = 13/01/17; Network = Spike; Lara vs. Foreman; Title = WBA Super World super welterweight title
• Date = 14/01/17; Network = Showtime; DeGale vs. Jack; Title = TBC
• Date = 28/01/17; Network = Showtime; Frampton vs. Santa Cruz; Title = WBA Super World featherweight title
• Date = 28/01/17; Network = Showtime; Garcia vs. Zlaticanin; Title = WBC World lightweight title
• Date = 02/02/17; Network = Fox Sports; Vasquez vs. Collazo; Title = Non-title bout
• Date = 10/02/17; Network = Bounce TV; Easter vs. Cruz; Title = IBF World lightweight title
• Date = 10/02/17; Network = Bounce TV; Warren vs. Zhakiyanov; Title = WBA Super World bantamweight title
• Date = 18/02/17; Network = Showtime; Broner vs. Granados; Title = Non-title bout
• Date = 18/02/17; Network = Fox; Wilder vs. Wawrzyk; Title = WBC World heavyweight title
• Date = 04/03/17; Network = Showtime; Thurman vs. Garcia; Title = WBA Super & WBC welterweight titles

Over the equivalent period, can anyone claim that HBO have televised better non-PPV fights than the PBC?

If you were paying for an HBO cable subscription during the first quarter of 2017, which non-PPV fight cards will they be covering that justifies the expense?

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mistersaintlaurent wrote:the silence is deafening

A lot of people heavily criticised the PBC and stated that they were willing to pay a cable subscription for better quality fights, but HBO seems intent to be exclusively PPV for any contests that are remotely intriguing.

I guess that those that criticised the PBC would rather remain silent than be honest and revise their opinion based on the changing landscape of boxing.

To be fair, HBO is a network, PBC is a promoter. They have different roles.

I think it's telling that PBC has shifted most of their cards to Showtime, and that their cards on Spike are increasingly small-time, cheap affairs. Showtime is the only network that actually pays them.

jujigatame wrote:To be fair, HBO is a network, PBC is a promoter. They have different roles.

I think it's telling that PBC has shifted most of their cards to Showtime, and that their cards on Spike are increasingly small-time, cheap affairs. Showtime is the only network that actually pays them.

nice early schedule, still a ton of guys on the shelf and we'll have to wait and see if any of these guys fight again this year.

Peterson has his first fight in 16 months coming up, on the Broner card. I was wondering what happened to him. Russell/Escandon is on that card as well.

jujigatame wrote:Peterson has his first fight in 16 months coming up, on the Broner card. I was wondering what happened to him. Russell/Escandon is on that card as well.

Russell is pulled from that card. Hadn't heard about Lamont. I'm sure fighting off tv is just what he was hoping for.

Presumably more than just the Broner fight would be televised. Showtime has a pretty good track record of showing at least 2-3 fights per card, and sometimes showing additional undercard bouts on their Showtime Extreme sub-channel.

They already have Charlo/hatley & Browne/Williams, but Lamont could replace the Russell fight. Who is he fighting? TBA?

According to the BoxRec schedule, David Avanesyan. It's a good fight if it happens.

jujigatame wrote:According to the BoxRec schedule, David Avanesyan. It's a good fight if it happens.

Oh, boxrec is a terrible source. That fight has been discussed but I doubt it's on that card.

So certain people are refusing to answer the simple question about HBO but they prefer to continue to lamast the PBC... Mmmm... kind of interesting, especially considering the HBO laboured over their dislike for the PBC, but even they also prefer to remain silent one the matter.

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mistersaintlaurent wrote:

jujigatame wrote:To be fair, HBO is a network, PBC is a promoter. They have different roles.

I think it's telling that PBC has shifted most of their cards to Showtime, and that their cards on Spike are increasingly small-time, cheap affairs. Showtime is the only network that actually pays them.

Your post is full of false information. PBC is not a promoter. PBC is a television series, just as HBO boxing is a television series.

Showtime is not the only network paying for the PBC television series. Spike and FS1 pay as well, as does CBS occasionally.

PBC has not shifted most of their cards to Showtime. There are still lots of cards on FS1 and regular cards on Spike as well. The WBC heavyweight championship of the world will be defended on FOX next month and the month after that, the WBC & WBA welterweight championships of the world will be unified on CBS.

I think it's telling that HBO is shifting most of their cards to pay-per-view and shrinking their boxing budget every year, while Showtime increases their budget. A budget of course, which is given almost entirely to Haymon's stable.

Not entirely comparable neither because Haymon boxing runs PBC and he is a boxing manager and PBC isn't exlusive to a network. If Haymon wanted to have programs on HBO, he could just like Arum could do Showtime if he wanted. HBO boxing doesn't manage boxers. The head of HBO doesn't manage any boxing.

I have been very critical of PBC but they are definitely putting on some good stuff early this year. But as someone else pointed out, the good stuff is almost entirely on showtime which is fine, but it tells me that the boxing on free tv was a failure. I blame much of that failure on the quality of fights they put on free tv (although don't know if it would have succeeded regardless). So hopefully showtime will continue to have some quality control and a willingness to pay for good fights.

mistersaintlaurent wrote:

jujigatame wrote:To be fair, HBO is a network, PBC is a promoter. They have different roles.

I think it's telling that PBC has shifted most of their cards to Showtime, and that their cards on Spike are increasingly small-time, cheap affairs. Showtime is the only network that actually pays them.

Your post is full of false information. PBC is not a promoter. PBC is a television series, just as HBO boxing is a television series.

Showtime is not the only network paying for the PBC television series. Spike and FS1 pay as well, as does CBS occasionally.

PBC has not shifted most of their cards to Showtime. There are still lots of cards on FS1 and regular cards on Spike as well. The WBC heavyweight championship of the world will be defended on FOX next month and the month after that, the WBC & WBA welterweight championships of the world will be unified on CBS.

I think it's telling that HBO is shifting most of their cards to pay-per-view and shrinking their boxing budget every year, while Showtime increases their budget. A budget of course, which is given almost entirely to Haymon's stable.

PBC is, for all intents and purposes, a promoter. There is no licensed promoter by that name, but they make deals with TV networks just like a promoter like Top Rank or Golden Boy would.

You are being willfully ignorant if you can't see most of their big cards are being shifted to Showtime. Originally their big fights would be on NBC/CBS/FOX. Every big fight in the schedule listed in the first post is on Showtime. The stuff listed on Spike and FS1 are poor low-budget cards. The point is that they're shying away from the time-buy model they started with, because it was leading to huge losses. Thurman/Garcia was originally Showtime then shifted to CBS, CBS/Showtime are the same company so I assume they're being well compensated for that card.

I agree HBO has been reducing its budget and that is unfortunate since I generally don't buy boxing PPVs.

jujigatame wrote:To be fair, HBO is a network, PBC is a promoter. They have different roles.

I think it's telling that PBC has shifted most of their cards to Showtime, and that their cards on Spike are increasingly small-time, cheap affairs. Showtime is the only network that actually pays them.

Legal briefings from the lawsuits show that Spike pays PBC.

zorndeslammes wrote:

jujigatame wrote:To be fair, HBO is a network, PBC is a promoter. They have different roles.

I think it's telling that PBC has shifted most of their cards to Showtime, and that their cards on Spike are increasingly small-time, cheap affairs. Showtime is the only network that actually pays them.

Legal briefings from the lawsuits show that Spike pays PBC.

Link? I think that would be interesting reading.

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no, PBC is not a promoter. PBC is a TV show. that TV show is sold to showtime just like any other TV show would be.

For all intents and purposes they are a promoter. They contract with TV networks just like other promoters do, and they subcontract with actual licensed promoters to be able to legally put their cards on.

The time-buy proof-of-concept failed. Those cards lost big money, which is why they've shifted all their big cards off the time-buy networks.

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The network ratings have been awful.

Mistersaintlaurent = enlightenedone

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Fox first card got dusted by figure skating. The UFC has nothing to do with it. Fox pays then.