BoxRec

I'm not sure if you post on the off topic section, so I thought I best post it on here.

I couldn't possibly keep it from you.

davie wrote:

I'm not sure if you post on the off topic section, so I thought I best post it on here.

I couldn't possibly keep it from you.

Right!!! ... For anybody who thought this was a publicity stunt for both... Ali simply didn't want to face a 7'1" X 290 super athlete who could punch like a ton of bricks ... The poor hammered soul chickenshatted by losing to Frazier -- which the contract stated he had to retain the title for the fight to happen.

The earlier '60's fight Ali simply wouldn't sign the contract....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s ... and this vid is positive proof.

Does anyone know the year associated with this poster?

Davie you noise up!

APerno wrote:Does anyone know the year associated with this poster?

It wouldn't have been for the earlier negotiations circa 1965-67... Terry Krueger didn't even turn pro until 1968 -- but Krueger would have been a logical opponent for Buster Mathis in 1971,, Blue Lewis and Oscar Bonavena actually fought in 1971 -- so I assume it was for the later proposed date.

Tomasino wrote:Davie you noise up!

Come on, I couldn't see that and not bring it on here for Kalan to see.

For me it just shows how up for it Ali really was. There's the signature Kalan was on about. Wilt must have shat it!

Ali wasn't up for anything but all the publicity the Chamberlain-Ali hype could generate... Ali shat his pants when Wilt asked him to sign the contract.

The contract was signed by Chamberlain, but here Ali refuses to sign: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s

Kalan wrote:

davie wrote:

I'm not sure if you post on the off topic section, so I thought I best post it on here.

I couldn't possibly keep it from you.

Right!!! ... For anybody who thought this was a publicity stunt for both... Ali simply didn't want to face a 7'1" X 290 super athlete who could punch like a ton of bricks ... The poor hammered soul chickenshatted by losing to Frazier -- which the contract stated he had to retain the title for the fight to happen.

The earlier '60's fight Ali simply wouldn't sign the contract....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s ... and this vid is positive proof.

How could Ali have retained the title if Frazier was the champ going into their 1st fight?

https://s29.postimg.org/egjb0flrr/20170117_225810.jpg

Follow this link to where I uploaded the photo.

You can see the little bit in the bottom right corner that explains the 3 pictures

"1971 - The fight that never happened. Chamberlain, the giant basketball legend, challenged Ali. The fight was cancelled when Chamberlain signed a new contract"

Did Wilt sign a new Basketball contract with the Lakers in 71, that scuppered the big fight deal?

Have I at last got to the bottom of why it never happened?

davie wrote:https://s29.postimg.org/egjb0flrr/20170117_225810.jpg

Follow this link to where I uploaded the photo.

You can see the little bit in the bottom right corner that explains the 3 pictures

"1971 - The fight that never happened. Chamberlain, the giant basketball legend, challenged Ali. The fight was cancelled when Chamberlain signed a new contract"

Did Wilt sign a new Basketball contract with the Lakers in 71, that scuppered the big fight deal?

Have I at last got to the bottom of why it never happened?

Davie you have indeed solved the longest running thread on boxrec. Sterling work sir

Kalan has been proven wrong yet again. I suppose he will now have to leave the forum. Hip hip!

handsofstone wrote:

Kalan wrote:

davie wrote:

I'm not sure if you post on the off topic section, so I thought I best post it on here.

I couldn't possibly keep it from you.

Right!!! ... For anybody who thought this was a publicity stunt for both... Ali simply didn't want to face a 7'1" X 290 super athlete who could punch like a ton of bricks ... The poor hammered soul chickenshatted by losing to Frazier -- which the contract stated he had to retain the title for the fight to happen.

The earlier '60's fight Ali simply wouldn't sign the contract....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s ... and this vid is positive proof.

How could Ali have retained the title if Frazier was the champ going into their 1st fight?

Ali was the champ going into the first fight - Frazier was a sanctioning body poser - so said us at the time - you must have been listening to the 'experts' -> TV, newspapers, magazines, and other selected whores, but we fans weren't, and Frazier knew we weren't, it is why he so badly wanted the fight. - Frazier knew if he wanted us to call him champion he would have to go through Ali, we were not accepting anything less. Sure the sycophants (the above mentioned whores) would call him champ, they could make money off him, but not us. - The title is won and lost in the ring, especially back then.

Kalan wrote:

APerno wrote:Does anyone know the year associated with this poster?

It wouldn't have been for the earlier negotiations circa 1965-67... Terry Krueger didn't even turn pro until 1968 -- but Krueger would have been a logical opponent for Buster Mathis in 1971,, Blue Lewis and Oscar Bonavena actually fought in 1971 -- so I assume it was for the later proposed date.

Thanks - makes sense.

Kalan wrote:Ali wasn't up for anything but all the publicity the Chamberlain-Ali hype could generate... Ali shat his pants when Wilt asked him to sign the contract.

The contract was signed by Chamberlain, but here Ali refuses to sign: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s

Where is the contract in the video?

Wilt just backed out. No title no fight. He breathed a sigh of relief....as did his dad.

APerno wrote:

handsofstone wrote:

Kalan wrote:
Right!!! ... For anybody who thought this was a publicity stunt for both... Ali simply didn't want to face a 7'1" X 290 super athlete who could punch like a ton of bricks ... The poor hammered soul chickenshatted by losing to Frazier -- which the contract stated he had to retain the title for the fight to happen.

The earlier '60's fight Ali simply wouldn't sign the contract....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s ... and this vid is positive proof.

How could Ali have retained the title if Frazier was the champ going into their 1st fight?

Ali was the champ going into the first fight - Frazier was a sanctioning body poser - so said us at the time - you must have been listening to the 'experts' -> TV, newspapers, magazines, and other selected whores, but we fans weren't, and Frazier knew we weren't, it is why he so badly wanted the fight. - Frazier knew if he wanted us to call him champion he would have to go through Ali, we were not accepting anything less. Sure the sycophants (the above mentioned whores) would call him champ, they could make money off him, but not us. - The title is won and lost in the ring, especially back then.

Joe Frazier was the champion going in, he held the title, thats a fact, what you've just said makes no difference as far as my post was concerned

handsofstone wrote:

APerno wrote:

handsofstone wrote: How could Ali have retained the title if Frazier was the champ going into their 1st fight?

Ali was the champ going into the first fight - Frazier was a sanctioning body poser - so said us at the time - you must have been listening to the 'experts' -> TV, newspapers, magazines, and other selected whores, but we fans weren't, and Frazier knew we weren't, it is why he so badly wanted the fight. - Frazier knew if he wanted us to call him champion he would have to go through Ali, we were not accepting anything less. Sure the sycophants (the above mentioned whores) would call him champ, they could make money off him, but not us. - The title is won and lost in the ring, especially back then.

Joe Frazier was the champion going in, he held the title, thats a fact, what you've just said makes no difference as far as my post was concerned

He's showing how hardcore and pure he and other fans were. Belts don't matter, titles don't matter, the sport don't matter, Frazier don't matter, ALI BOMAYE!!!!

handsofstone wrote:

APerno wrote:

handsofstone wrote: How could Ali have retained the title if Frazier was the champ going into their 1st fight?

Ali was the champ going into the first fight - Frazier was a sanctioning body poser - so said us at the time - you must have been listening to the 'experts' -> TV, newspapers, magazines, and other selected whores, but we fans weren't, and Frazier knew we weren't, it is why he so badly wanted the fight. - Frazier knew if he wanted us to call him champion he would have to go through Ali, we were not accepting anything less. Sure the sycophants (the above mentioned whores) would call him champ, they could make money off him, but not us. - The title is won and lost in the ring, especially back then.

Joe Frazier was the champion going in, he held the title, thats a fact, what you've just said makes no difference as far as my post was concerned

What fact? Because some sanctioning body tells you so, you get in line and call it a fact? - Think of it this way, if Frazier had lost that night in '71, any list today that would have his name on it as heavyweight champion would also have to include Jimmy Ellis and Ernie Terrell, and that is no list at all.

punchoutsb wrote:

handsofstone wrote:

APerno wrote:
Ali was the champ going into the first fight - Frazier was a sanctioning body poser - so said us at the time - you must have been listening to the 'experts' -> TV, newspapers, magazines, and other selected whores, but we fans weren't, and Frazier knew we weren't, it is why he so badly wanted the fight. - Frazier knew if he wanted us to call him champion he would have to go through Ali, we were not accepting anything less. Sure the sycophants (the above mentioned whores) would call him champ, they could make money off him, but not us. - The title is won and lost in the ring, especially back then.

Joe Frazier was the champion going in, he held the title, thats a fact, what you've just said makes no difference as far as my post was concerned

He's showing how hardcore and pure he and other fans were. Belts don't matter, titles don't matter, the sport don't matter, Frazier don't matter, ALI BOMAYE!!!!

Not sure were you were going with that - but back in '71 I was rooting for Frazier. Never like Ali/Clay rooted against him in every fight he ever had - but that night he was champ until Frazier put him on his back in the 15th - it was wonderful.

APerno wrote:

handsofstone wrote:

APerno wrote:
Ali was the champ going into the first fight - Frazier was a sanctioning body poser - so said us at the time - you must have been listening to the 'experts' -> TV, newspapers, magazines, and other selected whores, but we fans weren't, and Frazier knew we weren't, it is why he so badly wanted the fight. - Frazier knew if he wanted us to call him champion he would have to go through Ali, we were not accepting anything less. Sure the sycophants (the above mentioned whores) would call him champ, they could make money off him, but not us. - The title is won and lost in the ring, especially back then.

Joe Frazier was the champion going in, he held the title, thats a fact, what you've just said makes no difference as far as my post was concerned

What fact? Because some sanctioning body tells you so, you get in line and call it a fact? - Think of it this way, if Frazier had lost that night in '71, any list today that would have his name on it as heavyweight champion would also have to include Jimmy Ellis and Ernie Terrell, and that is no list at all.

Who held the title??

If Vitali decided to come back and fight Wilder,who would you consider the challenger?

APerno wrote:

punchoutsb wrote:

handsofstone wrote: Joe Frazier was the champion going in, he held the title, thats a fact, what you've just said makes no difference as far as my post was concerned

He's showing how hardcore and pure he and other fans were. Belts don't matter, titles don't matter, the sport don't matter, Frazier don't matter, ALI BOMAYE!!!!

Not sure were you were going with that - but back in '71 I was rooting for Frazier. Never like Ali/Clay rooted against him in every fight he ever had - but that night he was champ until Frazier put him on his back in the 15th - it was wonderful.

Makes little difference who you were for, Joe Frazier was the champion no matter how much of a purist you are.

punchoutsb wrote:

APerno wrote:

punchoutsb wrote:
He's showing how hardcore and pure he and other fans were. Belts don't matter, titles don't matter, the sport don't matter, Frazier don't matter, ALI BOMAYE!!!!

Not sure were you were going with that - but back in '71 I was rooting for Frazier. Never like Ali/Clay rooted against him in every fight he ever had - but that night he was champ until Frazier put him on his back in the 15th - it was wonderful.

Makes little difference who you were for, Joe Frazier was the champion no matter how much of a purist you are.

You'd be better off speaking to the fridge freezer than trying to get sense into some people Punchout

handsofstone wrote:

punchoutsb wrote:

APerno wrote:

Not sure were you were going with that - but back in '71 I was rooting for Frazier. Never like Ali/Clay rooted against him in every fight he ever had - but that night he was champ until Frazier put him on his back in the 15th - it was wonderful.

Makes little difference who you were for, Joe Frazier was the champion no matter how much of a purist you are.

You'd be better off speaking to the fridge freezer than trying to get sense into some people Punchout

That's why I blocked that downy fella golden oldie and a few others. APerno doesn't seem a bad poster but no need to change history just to show how pure your fanhood is.

punchoutsb wrote:

handsofstone wrote:

punchoutsb wrote:
Makes little difference who you were for, Joe Frazier was the champion no matter how much of a purist you are.

You'd be better off speaking to the fridge freezer than trying to get sense into some people Punchout

That's why I blocked that downy fella golden oldie and a few others. APerno doesn't seem a bad poster but no need to change history just to show how pure your fanhood is.

Its the main reason why people don't post on this section, everyones an expert and cant wait to throw their versions of facts down your throats

That Pedraza dive thread on CS is just mind boggling too

handsofstone wrote:

punchoutsb wrote:

handsofstone wrote: You'd be better off speaking to the fridge freezer than trying to get sense into some people Punchout

That's why I blocked that downy fella golden oldie and a few others. APerno doesn't seem a bad poster but no need to change history just to show how pure your fanhood is.

Its the main reason why people don't post on this section, everyones an expert and cant wait to throw their versions of facts down your throats

That Pedraza dive thread on CS is just mind boggling too

And of course no one can be an expert without letting you know how retarted you are for "hero worshiping" someone of being a "fanboy" or whatever other terms are trending on twitter. It's annoying. Still, lots of GREAT posters on this board and in this section.

handsofstone wrote:

APerno wrote:

handsofstone wrote: Joe Frazier was the champion going in, he held the title, thats a fact, what you've just said makes no difference as far as my post was concerned

What fact? Because some sanctioning body tells you so, you get in line and call it a fact? - Think of it this way, if Frazier had lost that night in '71, any list today that would have his name on it as heavyweight champion would also have to include Jimmy Ellis and Ernie Terrell, and that is no list at all.

Who held the title??

If Vitali decided to come back and fight Wilder,who would you consider the challenger?

Interesting point, I have no clue - I stopped paying attention to boxing back in 1995 - I really don't know who they are - I only post on the Boxing History section - With that said, "No doubt! my lineal argument has many problems" - instead of saying Vitali and Wilder lets take it all the way back Jack Root and Marvin Hart and watch my argument fall apart - yes the lineal argument has many problems - but sanctioning bodies are predators who rob fighters' purses and bring nothing to the game except corruption; there must be a better way, a way to protect the fighters. We just have to find it; the problem is HBO/Showtime - so long as they can stage 'championship fight' after 'championship fight' via the sanctioning bodies; and it is the fighters who get robbed (have to pay) and not television; television will promote the sanctioning bodies and the sanctioning bodies will continue to manipulate the game to their advantage, often at the expense of the fighters. They need to be gotten rid of . . .

If we all just ignored terrorism it wouldn't go away; if we all just ignored the sanctioning bodies they would literally all go away; the under lying problem is television's desire for multiple champions.

As far as the Frazier thing goes, what I was trying to argue was that before the Ali fight, Frazier was walking around with a 'Roger Maris asterisk' next to his title; he was to us at the time the interim champion. In every conversation if someone called Frazier champ you could bet someone else in the group would bring up Ali. There was no consensus; to half the population, that night, Ali was defending his title against a claimant.