BoxRec

Great thread on Foreman here. GF looked great against Frazier and Norton. GF against Ali, Young, and the Toronto 5, not so much. Here are other examples.

*Ali looked horrible against Bonavena in some of those rounds.

*Holmes in his prime looked desperate against Mike Weaver and went the distance with a Lucien Rodriguez.

*Jimmy Young arguably had a tougher night against Jody Ballard right after beating Foreman

*Mayweather and James Toney got some gift decisions in their prime.

Please add to the list.

Mayweather is a bizarre call, he had one close fight with a great lightweight. Hardly inconsistent.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Mayweather is a bizarre call, he had one close fight with a great lightweight. Hardly inconsistent.

I tried to get a non HW in there. I'd have to re-watch the fight(s) to see if he had bad rounds worthy of this list.

Tony1244 wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Mayweather is a bizarre call, he had one close fight with a great lightweight. Hardly inconsistent.

I tried to get a non HW in there. I'd have to re-watch the fight(s) to see if he had bad rounds worthy of this list.

The first Castillo fight was his only close fight in his career imo. More the good work of Castillo then Floyd fighting poorly.

I think Lupe Pintor lost some nontitle fights.

Mike Tyson looked pretty terrible against Buster Douglas.

Evander Holyfield went life & death with Bert Cooper.

James Toney looked like he'd never boxed before against Roy Jones Jr.

Depends on where you class his prime.
His best years were at lightweight but Duran has to go in there for having the odd off night despite being one of the worlds best at higher weight classes

Azumah Nelson and Pedrosa both had fairly frequent nights where they looked flat and uninspired

Holyfield looked good against Cooper. Anyone who didn't think he'd beat Tyson should have known he would after that fight.

Oftrn thought Canizales had a habit of letting fights go alot closer than necessary. At his best he was superb.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Holyfield looked good against Cooper. Anyone who didn't think he'd beat Tyson should have known he would after that fight.

I can see your point of view.

I had the opposite thought when Cooper smashed Holyfield into the ropes at one point, I thought that if Tyson had hit him with the same shot, he'd be toast.

I was certainly wrong about that thought as it turned out.

Ali got knocked on his ass 1 fight before beating Liston.

Sir Henry Cooper.

Overall, Ali and Holyfield looked pretty good in those fights.

There a lot of examples of a great fighter getting knocked down.
Buddy Baer knocked Louis through the ropes.
Holmes got decked by Renaldo Snipes.
In the 3rd Duran-DeJesus fight, Duran got knocked down.

However, these were not terrible performances. The great fighter were generally in command throughout most of the fight.

Some I would count as terrible at least by their standards)

Toney-Tiberi
Hagler-Antuofermo I
Tyson-Smith
Holyfield-Moorer I

Syntax Error wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Holyfield looked good against Cooper. Anyone who didn't think he'd beat Tyson should have known he would after that fight.

I can see your point of view.

I had the opposite thought when Cooper smashed Holyfield into the ropes at one point, I thought that if Tyson had hit him with the same shot, he'd be toast.

I was certainly wrong about that thought as it turned out.

Thirty seconds later when Evander clocked him with about 20 uppercuts, I knew Mike couldn't handle that. Not that it didn't scare the shit out of me when he got tagged, but the struggles are pretty overblown. That was the only 20 seconds he lost in the fight and you could make a case for scoring that round for him. Really crazy round to tally. I'd probably go 10-9 Bert, but he definitely got the worst of things.

Ambling Alp II wrote:Overall, Ali and Holyfield looked pretty good in those fights.

There a lot of examples of a great fighter getting knocked down.
Buddy Baer knocked Louis through the ropes.
Holmes got decked by Renaldo Snipes.
In the 3rd Duran-DeJesus fight, Duran got knocked down.

However, these were not terrible performances. The great fighter were generally in command throughout most of the fight.

Some I would count as terrible at least by their standards)

Toney-Tiberi
Hagler-Antuofermo I
Tyson-Smith
Holyfield-Moorer I

Good shouts.

Toney especially is a curious one because he was such a talented fighter, but he did have a few stale performances.

Not sure that 'great' is completely appropriate in this fighter's case - maybe successful is a better definition - but Eubank was frequently poor in supposed 'gimme' defences and against opponents not expected to do that much.

People like Gary Stretch, John Jarvis, Dan Sherry and Henry Wharton often had their moments against Eubank - and poor Ray Close almost certainly beat Eubank first time round - but Chris always did just enough whilst never givng the fans much and often looking fortunate into the bargain.

Bodyshot3 wrote:Not sure that 'great' is completely appropriate in this fighter's case - maybe successful is a better definition - but Eubank was frequently poor in supposed 'gimme' defences and against opponents not expected to do that much.

People like Gary Stretch, John Jarvis, Dan Sherry and Henry Wharton often had their moments against Eubank - and poor Ray Close almost certainly beat Eubank first time round - but Chris always did just enough whilst never givng the fans much and often looking fortunate into the bargain.

I agree, he frustrated the hell out of me, one of those fighters that needed a big fight to come alive.

I agree, he frustrated the hell out of me, one of those fighters that needed a big fight to come alive.

Agreed too - Benn coming at him with bad intentions transformed Eubank into an exciting, brave and hugely watchable fighter.

Strangely, I got to really like and appreciate Eubank very late in the day when he fought Thompson twice and also Calzaghe....when Chris was forced to commit because he was the contender/outsider he was a completely different fighter.

On the 'Brit Beat' Dennis Andries rarely (if ever) looked slick and was something of a born slugger who would always been involved in a war. Nothing was ever easy for Dennis - he got his lumps every time he stepped into the ring - but he frequently prevailed.

Again, I appreciate that Dennis was 'successful' rather than 'great' and I am getting away from the thread's real discussion point

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Mayweather is a bizarre call, he had one close fight with a great lightweight. Hardly inconsistent.

TWO............................What about Oscar that fight could have went either way

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Mayweather is a bizarre call, he had one close fight with a great lightweight. Hardly inconsistent.

TWO............................What about Oscar that fight could have went either way

That wasn't remotely close.

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Mayweather is a bizarre call, he had one close fight with a great lightweight. Hardly inconsistent.

TWO............................What about Oscar that fight could have went either way

I thought Floyd beat Oscar clear. 117-111 Floyd for me.

gilgamesh wrote:

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Mayweather is a bizarre call, he had one close fight with a great lightweight. Hardly inconsistent.

TWO............................What about Oscar that fight could have went either way

I thought Floyd beat Oscar clear. 117-111 Floyd for me.

I hope you don't judge any fight's anywhere mate I watched it with a fighter[mate] that won 100 professional fight's who fought for 4 decade's in the pro's I thought Mayweather just scraped in the win but my mate thought Oscar did enough it was a very close fight from our view and I wasn't going to argue with someone who forgot more about boxing then most people ever learn.

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:

TWO............................What about Oscar that fight could have went either way

I thought Floyd beat Oscar clear. 117-111 Floyd for me.

I hope you don't judge any fight's anywhere mate I watched it with a fighter[mate] that won 100 professional fight's who fought for 4 decade's in the pro's I thought Mayweather just scraped in the win but my mate thought Oscar did enough it was a very close fight from our view and I wasn't going to argue with someone who forgot more about boxing then most people ever learn.

Scoring is subjective, but I have the utmost confidence in my ability to score a fight competently and fairly. There will always be disagreements amongst fans, but I know what I'm looking at when I look at a Boxing match. I didn't have 100 Professional fights, but I've dedicated hours upon hours of my life to studying and understanding Boxing and I can score it as good as anybody.

Oscar had a lot of aggressive bursts in the fight, but did very little effective landing in my opinion. Especially over the 2nd half of the bout.

Your mate with 100 fights is a very poor judge. Oscar could have had a draw in a 6 round fight. The second half was a blowout. Floyd could probably have stopped him.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Your mate with 100 fights is a very poor judge. Oscar could have had a draw in a 6 round fight. The second half was a blowout. Floyd could probably have stopped him.

As several Fighters turned commentators have proven. Being a former boxer doesn't mean you know how to score a fight. Fighters tend to favor guys that fight similarly to the way they did in their scoring I notice.

gilgamesh wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Your mate with 100 fights is a very poor judge. Oscar could have had a draw in a 6 round fight. The second half was a blowout. Floyd could probably have stopped him.

As several Fighters turned commentators have proven. Being a former boxer doesn't mean you know how to score a fight. Fighters tend to favor guys that fight similarly to the way they did in their scoring I notice.

Agreed, that's not even taking into account that Clive could well be lying out his arse. Not a lot of guys around today with 100 plus victories.