BoxRec

A lovely article by Mike Costello on the BBC Website about this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/39441981

I personally agree with Costello on this fight... I really find it difficult to make a case for Hagler both in terms of scoring it round by round and also the looking the fight as a whole. I think the cornermen is the tell tale signs.... Dundee was screaming "champion 9 minutes" - from the end of the 9th round.... Whereas, Petronelli seemed to be making more of a desperate plea (if not being that loud) for Hagler to start working "we need these 2 rounds".... "its the 12 round and we need it bad".

I think part of the reason why it is still talked about is because.
1) It was so hyped before hand.
2) It was a pretty damn good fight.
3) Hagler's attitude post fight (whether right or wrong) it got people thinking.
4) Critically, for me the biggest reason why it is still discussed is because of the reduction from 15 to 12 rounds. Would Hagler have KO'd Leonard, Would Leonard win any of rounds 13, 14, and 15 to still eek out a decision.

But I am just wondering, what other fights do you talk about (even if the masses don't talk about them) in terms of controvesy? If you are the only one still harping on about these fights.... why do you think this is.

Mine are the following.
Froch vs Dirrell - There is no way Dirrell lost that. Reason why it is not discussed was it was a dull fight
Hopkins vs Calzaghe - Okay I can see why some go for Calzaghe here, but for me Hopkins was a clear winner. Reason why it is not discussed cos it was a crap fight.
DLH vs Mosley 2 - I mean... how could this be scored for Mosley. I had many a debate with Terry on this one. I think again it was far from a classic fight and probably why it is forgotton.
Eubank vs Thompson (both fights).... First one was close, but I thought Eubank nicked it.... 2nd one is more a case of should Eubank have been pulled out when clearly ahead.

Hagler-Leonard was on the cover of the TV Times.....! In 1987 that was a huge thing. The replay was on prime time ITV at 7.30 pm. I still remember it as a boy. It was a beautiful warm bright Spring day just like today.

I also had Hopkins beating Calzaghe no two ways about it.....but its impossible to have a fair debate about it on here as too many of my fellow white men were so incensed by Hopkins racist idiotic comment beforehand that they cant look past the remark and be fair.

Bricks wrote:Hagler-Leonard was on the cover of the TV Times.....! In 1987 that was a huge thing. The replay was on prime time ITV at 7.30 pm. I still remember it as a boy. It was a beautiful warm bright Spring day just like today.

I also had Hopkins beating Calzaghe no two ways about it.....but its impossible to have a fair debate about it on here as too many of my fellow white men were so incensed by Hopkins racist idiotic comment beforehand that they cant look past the remark and be fair.

If anyone has that edition of TV times... can you let me know. I have been searching for it.

I had Calzaghe by a couple of points from memory. Hopkins boxed well, but did very little in the second half of that fight.

To answer your question, fights I find prop up that always trigger debate (if not controversy)

Lennox vs Vitali - the cuts stoppage, which was absolutely correct, left fans to draw there own conclusions on how it would have gone without the stoppage.

Froch vs Groves 1 - one of the most premature interventions from a ref I have seen in boxing. Denied a natural conclusion

Khan vs Peterson doesn't get talked about loads but I think Khan got screwed that fight

Ossyrules wrote:Khan vs Peterson doesn't get talked about loads but I think Khan got screwed that fight

Good call,

Yes Khan's been in a few.... vs Barrera and the rediculous referring to wait till the 5th round to stop it (when the cut stayed the same). Also the Limond fight with the long count.

stujones wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:Khan vs Peterson doesn't get talked about loads but I think Khan got screwed that fight

Good call,

Yes Khan's been in a few.... vs Barrera and the rediculous referring to wait till the 5th round to stop it (when the cut stayed the same). Also the Limond fight with the long count.

Yeah that stunk for poor Barrera. A legend like that deserves a boxing match to be handled with more respect.

Maludrottu v Kelly was the worst I have EVER seen. I think I gave Kelly 10 rounds, maybe 11. Kelly landed 155 punches to the Italian's 87...shameful.

Ossyrules wrote:Khan vs Peterson doesn't get talked about loads but I think Khan got screwed that fight

I would agree Khan was screwed by Peterson inside and outside the ring

If Khan had stppped pushing Peterson he'd have won, he had plenty of warnings.

samwbr wrote:If Khan had stppped pushing Peterson he'd have won, he had plenty of warnings.

Haven't watched the fight in a while but Peterson got lucky that day. It all smelt of home cooking.

You're right though if he didn't push he couldn't have been docked a point or 2. What he needed was Joe Cortez in his Floyd vs Hatton mode and he just have split them and give him the distance he wanted

I can't make a case for Hopkins, after his early success he did nothing but spoil after round 4. At best he had a share of a round in the last 8, the others JC won clearly.

stujones wrote:

Bricks wrote:Hagler-Leonard was on the cover of the TV Times.....! In 1987 that was a huge thing. The replay was on prime time ITV at 7.30 pm. I still remember it as a boy. It was a beautiful warm bright Spring day just like today.

I also had Hopkins beating Calzaghe no two ways about it.....but its impossible to have a fair debate about it on here as too many of my fellow white men were so incensed by Hopkins racist idiotic comment beforehand that they cant look past the remark and be fair.

If anyone has that edition of TV times... can you let me know. I have been searching for it.

I did have the itv build up show and the itv coverage of the fight on tape but had to get rid of them.

Bricks wrote:Hagler-Leonard was on the cover of the TV Times.....! In 1987 that was a huge thing. The replay was on prime time ITV at 7.30 pm. I still remember it as a boy. It was a beautiful warm bright Spring day just like today.

I also had Hopkins beating Calzaghe no two ways about it.....but its impossible to have a fair debate about it on here as too many of my fellow white men were so incensed by Hopkins racist idiotic comment beforehand that they cant look past the remark and be fair.

nice justification for scoring it to Hopkins, that

Coco wrote:I can't make a case for Hopkins, after his early success he did nothing but spoil after round 4. At best he had a share of a round in the last 8, the others JC won clearly.

Hopkins ran out of gas and his last stand was round ten when he cried foul and tried to get the ref to deduct from Calzaghe for a low blow. It was pitiful acting but it distracted Joe enough for Hopkins to steal the round with some sneaky shots. I felt Hopkins winning round 10 made it a close fight but BH just wasn't able to put enough work in versus Joe and his engine.

30 years, wow! Makes me feel really old. I watched the recording of this on a US military base in West Germany the day after the fight and amazingly didn't know the result already! There was plenty of jeering when the verdict was announced but lots of cheering too, I'd say the reaction was pretty even looking back but everyone had a favourite, you were either Hagler or Leonard, no sitting on the fence. I thought Leonard won by a round or two back then but had always been a big fan of his so was obviously biased as the OP said. I've probably watched this fight again more than any other and every time I watch it I seem to score it wider for Leonard.

In retrospect its probably a textbook example of how different people score fights in different ways, especially when its a fighter vs a boxer, but the telltale signs during and after all spelt doom for Hagler in my opinion. His face as the bell ended the fight spoke volumes and his little dancing jig also after the final bell just wasn't Hagler at all and he seemed to know he wasn't getting the decision. There's loads of stuff on youtube about this fight and one comment always stands out to me, not sure if it was by Ray's brother or another of his cornermen but it went something like "at about the time in the fight that most people thought Hagler would have had him out of there, people stopped watching the fight and just watched Leonard". Hagler may have been on the slide by then but the inactivity of Leonard preceding the bout and the fact he went up to middleweight with no tune-up makes it one of the most amazing results ever.

Bricks wrote:Hagler-Leonard was on the cover of the TV Times.....! In 1987 that was a huge thing. The replay was on prime time ITV at 7.30 pm. I still remember it as a boy. It was a beautiful warm bright Spring day just like today.

I also had Hopkins beating Calzaghe no two ways about it.....but its impossible to have a fair debate about it on here as too many of my fellow white men were so incensed by Hopkins racist idiotic comment beforehand that they cant look past the remark and be fair.

mate it was a warm spring day! i remember mi mum calling me in from playing with mi mate, that the fight was on telly! remember exactly where i was when she shouted me in. 30 bloody years ago..wow

Ossyrules wrote:Khan vs Peterson doesn't get talked about loads but I think Khan got screwed that fight

Yeah. I thought he won the fight in any case. I thought it was mental going to DC to fight Peterson in the first place though. I remember saying to folk before the fight that it was a bad call.

I had pretty good seats for B-hop v Calzaghe,and scored it 8-4 (minus one for the flash knockdown) to Joe in real time. I've watched it a couple of time since with the same buddies I was at the fight with, and if anything, we make it more in favour of Calzaghe.

Jackson328 wrote:30 years, wow! Makes me feel really old. I watched the recording of this on a US military base in West Germany the day after the fight and amazingly didn't know the result already! There was plenty of jeering when the verdict was announced but lots of cheering too, I'd say the reaction was pretty even looking back but everyone had a favourite, you were either Hagler or Leonard, no sitting on the fence. I thought Leonard won by a round or two back then but had always been a big fan of his so was obviously biased as the OP said. I've probably watched this fight again more than any other and every time I watch it I seem to score it wider for Leonard.

In retrospect its probably a textbook example of how different people score fights in different ways, especially when its a fighter vs a boxer, but the telltale signs during and after all spelt doom for Hagler in my opinion. His face as the bell ended the fight spoke volumes and his little dancing jig also after the final bell just wasn't Hagler at all and he seemed to know he wasn't getting the decision. There's loads of stuff on youtube about this fight and one comment always stands out to me, not sure if it was by Ray's brother or another of his cornermen but it went something like "at about the time in the fight that most people thought Hagler would have had him out of there, people stopped watching the fight and just watched Leonard". Hagler may have been on the slide by then but the inactivity of Leonard preceding the bout and the fact he went up to middleweight with no tune-up makes it one of the most amazing results ever.

Those were the days,i remember desperately wanting to know the result of fights but with only teletext,no internet and only boxing news sometimes i'd have to wait for a week after the fight to find out the result,how times have changed.

bigjack wrote:

Jackson328 wrote:30 years, wow! Makes me feel really old. I watched the recording of this on a US military base in West Germany the day after the fight and amazingly didn't know the result already! .

Those were the days,i remember desperately wanting to know the result of fights but with only teletext,no internet and only boxing news sometimes i'd have to wait for a week after the fight to find out the result,how times have changed.

There was a big fella on the door telling people on their way in not to say anything if they already knew the result, some people had phoned home or listened to radio reports, but its amazing how news didn't travel quite so fast in those days.

I remember the ITV preview show used the Europe song The Final Countdown and to this day when I hear it I think - Hagler and Leonard and smile

thepocketrocket wrote:Maludrottu v Kelly was the worst I have EVER seen. I think I gave Kelly 10 rounds, maybe 11. Kelly landed 155 punches to the Italian's 87...shameful.

Yeah...ridiculous decision...another one was McConnell vs napa.

Autobarn wrote:

Coco wrote:I can't make a case for Hopkins, after his early success he did nothing but spoil after round 4. At best he had a share of a round in the last 8, the others JC won clearly.

Hopkins ran out of gas and his last stand was round ten when he cried foul and tried to get the ref to deduct from Calzaghe for a low blow. It was pitiful acting but it distracted Joe enough for Hopkins to steal the round with some sneaky shots. I felt Hopkins winning round 10 made it a close fight but BH just wasn't able to put enough work in versus Joe and his engine.

How convenient....nice justification for handing it to joe

stujones wrote:

thepocketrocket wrote:Maludrottu v Kelly was the worst I have EVER seen. I think I gave Kelly 10 rounds, maybe 11. Kelly landed 155 punches to the Italian's 87...shameful.

Yeah...ridiculous decision...another one was McConnell vs napa.

Haven't seen that one live, but heard nothing good!