BoxRec

Tough Choice.

Even though Rahman lost to Ruiz and has less wins against top contenders, he once was the true heavyweight champ of the world, knocking out Lennox Lewis.

Who do you pick?

Much as I hate to say it. I'd have to go with Ruiz. He had a better career overall and has better scalps on his resume (Overall I mean, of course Rahman has the one BIG exception).

Rahman definitely did better against David Tua though

Huggy Bear Ruiz

gilgamesh wrote:Much as I hate to say it. I'd have to go with Ruiz. He had a better career overall and has better scalps on his resume.

Rahman definitely did better against David Tua though

I think a lot of posters will have to start their sentence like that.. lol

Rahman is more accomplished because his most notable win was a very dramatic KO of Lennox Lewis -- the top ATG Heavyweight of his era... Ruiz beat Holyfield and Rahman, but that's a little like beating Sam Peter and Oleg Maskaev when they had a bad hair day.

I've always thought Rahman and Ruiz were about a notch above Andrew Golota and Michael Grant -- slow, clumsy, and with very poor skills... If the Earth had shifted a little differently those 2 never would have won a World Title.

I voted Rahman but it's a horrible horrible question to ask

Ossyrules wrote:I voted Rahman but it's a horrible horrible question to ask

Well there is always an answer. One has definately had better accomplishments than the other.

It's almost like asking, "Who had better accomplishments, Paulino Uzcudun or Andrew Golota?" ... Does anyone care? It's not a burning question.

Ruthless-RKO wrote:Tough Choice.

Even though Rahman lost to Ruiz and has less wins against top contenders, he once was the true heavyweight champ of the world, knocking out Lennox Lewis.

Who do you pick?

This is a tough call. There are four main factors that should be considered when comparing two fighters:
1. Head to head (if applicable) Ruiz won this.

2. Common Opponents. Obviously Rahman did better against Tua. Did they have any other common opponents? Toney technically doesn't count since it the Ruiz-Toney fight was a no-contest. I looked and can't find any other common opponents, which doesn't seem possible.
Rahman gets edge here.

3. Best wins - Obviously Rahman's very best easily trumps any of Ruiz's. Take out Lewis's seem better, but not really that much. I am going to give a slight edge to Rahman here.

4. Losses- How many, how bad, what was the quality of competition. They each had the same amount, to overall about the same level of competition. Ruiz had the meltdown against Tua, and Rahman never had one of those. Also, Ruiz seemed to get the benefit of the judges which Rahman didn't. (Ruiz should have got a loss in the 3rd fight against a shot Holyfield, and should have got a loss against Golota.
A slight edge to Rahman here.

Overall, I would say Rahman had the better career.

Ambling Alp II wrote:

Ruthless-RKO wrote:Tough Choice.

Even though Rahman lost to Ruiz and has less wins against top contenders, he once was the true heavyweight champ of the world, knocking out Lennox Lewis.

Who do you pick?

This is a tough call. There are four main factors that should be considered when comparing two fighters:
1. Head to head (if applicable) Ruiz won this.

2. Common Opponents. Obviously Rahman did better against Tua. Did they have any other common opponents? Toney technically doesn't count since it the Ruiz-Toney fight was a no-contest. I looked and can't find any other common opponents, which doesn't seem possible.
Rahman gets edge here.

3. Best wins - Obviously Rahman's very best easily trumps any of Ruiz's. Take out Lewis's seem better, but not really that much. I am going to give a slight edge to Rahman here.

4. Losses- How many, how bad, what was the quality of competition. They each had the same amount, to overall about the same level of competition. Ruiz had the meltdown against Tua, and Rahman never had one of those. Also, Ruiz seemed to get the benefit of the judges which Rahman didn't. (Ruiz should have got a loss in the 3rd fight against a shot Holyfield, and should have got a loss against Golota.
A slight edge to Rahman here.

Overall, I would say Rahman had the better career.

To answer your Common opponents question. Rahman fought and lost a Technical Decision to Holyfield in 2002, Ruiz had already fought Holyfield 3 times by then going 1-1-1 against him. Their 3rd bout ended in a draw.

The Rahman win was one of the last significant wins for Holyfield for a long time as right after that fight is when he went on the losing streak losing to Chris Byrd, James Toney and Larry Donald respectively and that's when everybody started calling for his retirement heavily...and of course he still fought on for another 6 or 7 years

Not sure how I managed to overlook Holyfield

I thought Holyfield should have got the decision in the third fight instead of it being a draw. Still, Ruiz did a bit better against a shot Holyfield than Rahman did. Don't think that is enough to counter the Tua situation though. It does make it a little closer, but I still have to lean towards Rahman as having the better career.

Ambling Alp II wrote:Not sure how I managed to overlook Holyfield

I thought Holyfield should have got the decision in the third fight instead of it being a draw. Still, Ruiz did a bit better against a shot Holyfield than Rahman did. Don't think that is enough to counter the Tua situation though. It does make it a little closer, but I still have to lean towards Rahman as having the better career.

Holyfield knocked him out in the second fight.

Ambling Alp II wrote:Not sure how I managed to overlook Holyfield

I thought Holyfield should have got the decision in the third fight instead of it being a draw. Still, Ruiz did a bit better against a shot Holyfield than Rahman did. Don't think that is enough to counter the Tua situation though. It does make it a little closer, but I still have to lean towards Rahman as having the better career.

I thought so too. I had the fight 115-113 Holyfield. One of the earlier fights I remember seeing as a fan.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Ambling Alp II wrote:Not sure how I managed to overlook Holyfield

I thought Holyfield should have got the decision in the third fight instead of it being a draw. Still, Ruiz did a bit better against a shot Holyfield than Rahman did. Don't think that is enough to counter the Tua situation though. It does make it a little closer, but I still have to lean towards Rahman as having the better career.

Holyfield knocked him out in the second fight.

I never saw the 1st or 2nd Ruiz-Holyfield fights. I saw the 3rd one, and therefore never saw the urge to go back and see the previous 2

What is this "Holyfield knocked him out" situation you speak of? I do seem to recall the HBO crew mentioning controversy in their previous bouts.

gilgamesh wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Ambling Alp II wrote:Not sure how I managed to overlook Holyfield

I thought Holyfield should have got the decision in the third fight instead of it being a draw. Still, Ruiz did a bit better against a shot Holyfield than Rahman did. Don't think that is enough to counter the Tua situation though. It does make it a little closer, but I still have to lean towards Rahman as having the better career.

Holyfield knocked him out in the second fight.

I never saw the 1st or 2nd Ruiz-Holyfield fights. I saw the 3rd one, and therefore never saw the urge to go back and see the previous 2

What is this "Holyfield knocked him out" situation you speak of? I do seem to recall the HBO crew mentioning controversy in their previous bouts.

He dropped him with a body shot and Ruiz pretended it was low and the ref bought it. Somewhat fitting for such a horrible trilogy to get the decision wrong in all three fights.

I think it was a hook to the chin and a hook square in the belly. Ruiz was down for a minute and the ridiculous Joe Cortez responded by deducting Holyfield a point.

Ruiz was horrible with his diving. I spent years waiting for him to mention David Tua's name but he never did. Wouldn't have required any diving in a Tua rematch.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Ambling Alp II wrote:Not sure how I managed to overlook Holyfield

I thought Holyfield should have got the decision in the third fight instead of it being a draw. Still, Ruiz did a bit better against a shot Holyfield than Rahman did. Don't think that is enough to counter the Tua situation though. It does make it a little closer, but I still have to lean towards Rahman as having the better career.

Holyfield knocked him out in the second fight.

I had Ruiz winning the 2nd fight clearly.. I believe Ruiz scored the only knockdown in their 3 fights.. I was very surprised Holyfield didn't outbox him easily in all their fights.. Evander was overweight for those fights or not trained right.. Ruiz was one of the worst boxers ever to win a Heavyweight Title. One of the only things to his credit is he could absorb a hard punch well.. He couldn't slip, duck, or roll them with any finesse whatever.

Roy Jones knew exactly what he was doing when he decided to jump up 2 weight divisions and go after John Ruiz.. Ruiz was so wide open it's astonishing to me that he was a successful boxer.. People said it's a case of Ruiz looking a lot easier to beat than he was.. Whenever you see flaws in a boxer they're really there.. They're not coming from my imagination.. Another guy who sometimes got praise from commentators was Andrew Golota.. I thought Golota was such a lousy boxer that he should have lost more fights by 1st round KO.. He was mentally challenged and he couldn't slip a punch.

Kalan wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Ambling Alp II wrote:Not sure how I managed to overlook Holyfield

I thought Holyfield should have got the decision in the third fight instead of it being a draw. Still, Ruiz did a bit better against a shot Holyfield than Rahman did. Don't think that is enough to counter the Tua situation though. It does make it a little closer, but I still have to lean towards Rahman as having the better career.

Holyfield knocked him out in the second fight.

I had Ruiz winning the 2nd fight clearly.. I believe Ruiz scored the only knockdown in their 3 fights.. I was very surprised Holyfield didn't outbox him easily in all their fights.. Evander was overweight for those fights or not trained right.. Ruiz was one of the worst boxers ever to win a Heavyweight Title. One of the only things to his credit is he could absorb a hard punch well.. He couldn't slip, duck, or roll them with any finesse whatever.

Roy Jones knew exactly what he was doing when he decided to jump up 2 weight divisions and go after John Ruiz.. Ruiz was so wide open it's astonishing to me that he was a successful boxer.. People said it's a case of Ruiz looking a lot easier to beat than he was.. Whenever you see flaws in a boxer they're really there.. They're not coming from my imagination.. Another guy who sometimes got praise from commentators was Andrew Golota.. I thought Golota was such a lousy boxer that he should have lost more fights by 1st round KO.. He was mentally challenged and he couldn't slip a punch.

And just think. Golota should've gotten the decision over John Ruiz when they fought.

The poll has ended in Rahman's favour and I agree with this result.

Ruiz had a bit more decent names in his resume including Rahman himself, but Ruiz won a lot of those fights in an unconvincing fashion. Some of his fights were really tough to score hugging contests. Rahman fight was also about that bad. Ruiz' biggest scalp is shot Holyfield.

So, Rahman had less big wins, but he really won that stuff. He knocked out Sanders, who wasn't a major player then, but was to KO Wlad later. He knocked out Lewis, who was unprepared and etc, but he did it in a fight for several belts. That's Rahman's biggest scalp - an inarguable king of the division.

Rahman all the way.

The poll was only open for like 10 days I believe. I’ve just re-opened the poll.. see if we get more voters.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑22 Aug 2018, 10:22 The poll was only open for like 10 days I believe. I’ve just re-opened the poll.. see if we get more voters.

Good, now I've voted for Rahman.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑27 Apr 2017, 10:54 (...)Also, Ruiz seemed to get the benefit of the judges which Rahman didn't. (Ruiz should have got a loss in the 3rd fight against a shot Holyfield, and should have got a loss against Golota.
A slight edge to Rahman here.

Ruiz should be disqualified or have deducted a couple of points in many of his fights. This would've changed his record dramatically.

I couldn't care less.

oogiebe wrote: ↑01 Dec 2018, 16:35 I couldn't care less.

I bet most of the posters don’t care less too. But it’s a boxing forum. Discuss!