BoxRec

You'd think with science of the modern age, that todays fighters would all be cardio machines, but we see so many gassy fighters these days. Maybe boing being less televised back in the day, there were just as many gasbags, and we only got to see the 'good fights'.

I'll leave the definition of 'old' to your imagination, but maybe pre 1990 is a good start.


Post the reason for your vote.

I think old school fighters were way fitter. Look at Muhammad Ali compared to today's bunch. Jack Dempsey's hard but model looks are superior to any of today's fighters. Max Baer an outlook any of today's so-called heavyweight heartthrobs. One only has to look at Jake la Motta's opponents - Marcel Cerdan, Ray Robinson and Tony Janito to know yesteryear fighters were far fitter.... even in the 80s, Matinee Idol Bobby Czyz, even after he had moved up in weight was better looking than any of today's supposed superstars! Case closed!

I think they were fitter back then maybe purely because they had to potentially go 15 rounds

100%, modern training is not better and older people were just tougher in general due to life being tougher. One of these bad ass boxers would lose their shit if they lost their cell phone for a day.

Heavyweights have definitely traded stamina for power and strength.

The smaller guys, due to the many more weight classes, cut too much weight and this has an adverse effect on their stamina also.

Back in the day fighters were much busier too so didn't have to spend the first month of training camp getting weight off, they were always at fighting weight.

Heavyweights.fought for 15 rounds were lighter and had less distractions .. and there wasnt various titles or as much politics . Life was tougher training equipment such as gloves and boots / trainers less comfortable fighters fought more regularly therefore fighters in general tougher due to conditions more harder in general.

Yes, there's more nutrition and better ways of training now but overall people in genereal where fitter and leaner.

I'd argue they were fitter, they were fighting much more regularly and for longer. They were certainly more battle hardened imo

I would say fighters of yesteryear worked more on honing their skills therefore got fitter in the process, boxers today are working more on weight training that brings more needless muscle which makes it harder to get weight off for fights which in return come fight night their fu**ed

I think that the role of strength and conditioning coaches in relation to actual boxing trainers needs to be redressed. Too many boxers/fitness coaches thinking training is about getting in shape. James Toney is probably a good example of an old school fighter in the modern day. I know he didn't fight at a fast pace which helped him to conserve energy, but he'd probably be a S+C coach's worst nightmare. When he was in the ring though, he was so relaxed that he could fight all day. A big factor in that relaxation comes from his skill level, I think the old school guys were taught rather than just being trained. They were smarter, more skillful and understood boxing which would have helped them do the rounds comfortably.

It's like the Bob Paisley quote that was something along the lines of "at the highest level, the first 5 yards are in your head." The old school fighters were probably a step ahead mentally due to their skill and knowledge, so they made things easier for themselves. I feel like I'm waffling now but hopefully I got my point across.

knockout wrote:The smaller guys, due to the many more weight classes, cut too much weight and this has an adverse effect on their stamina also.

Back in the day fighters were much busier too so didn't have to spend the first month of training camp getting weight off, they were always at fighting weight.

Agreed. If boxers of today were fighting 6+ times a year at their natural weight, rather than undergoing drastic weight cuts and therefore fighting less regularly, they'd probably be much fitter by fight night.

You can get as fit as your motivation pushes you.
I think it is easier for modern fighters to get fit, what with supplements, nutritionalists,oxybaric sessions, altitude training, modern sports science and analysis, better understanding of the human body and food, and all we have learned from other sports.

I think the guy a few posts above is right the heavyweights traded...skill stamina for power/strength. They kind of broke the game with the heavyweights. Heavyweight used to be a skilled division even in tysons prime. They we,re actually more skilled could do a lot more as in they all had prerty decent jabs...could move about the ring well. Could punch on the move etc. Were well schooled fighters. But now its all about avoiding a punch because it doesnt take many with the size of these guys.

Probably the reason you cant really compare heavyweight eras seriously. The game changed so much.

No, at that time it was very normal to smoke inside, in fact, the matchups wouldn't even be close. In every sport the ecords get broken, endurance sports especially!

I believe they was fitter yes

It's hard to tell how lively a lot of really old fights were because the footage of them is so poor. But we know that daily 10-mile runs weren't uncommon among old-time heavies, on top of 10+ rounds of sparring, loads of skipping, and plenty of bag work. The quality of everyday meat was probably superior back then, and good diets were understood by Dempsey's era.

Also, they fought 20- and 25-rounders at one time. But that style of fighting was highly attritional, with headshots sparing due to the gloves. So definitely tougher, in terms of taking a sustained beating to the body, but perhaps not fitter as we classify it now.

My hunch is that today's fighters are generally fitter until they're hurt, with the old 'uns the other way around. I'd probably bet on Khan beating Armstrong in a 5k race.

Tougher? Yes.

Fitter? No.

bbjc wrote:I think the guy a few posts above is right the heavyweights traded...skill stamina for power/strength. They kind of broke the game with the heavyweights. Heavyweight used to be a skilled division even in tysons prime. They we,re actually more skilled could do a lot more as in they all had prerty decent jabs...could move about the ring well. Could punch on the move etc. Were well schooled fighters. But now its all about avoiding a punch because it doesnt take many with the size of these guys.

Probably the reason you cant really compare heavyweight eras seriously. The game changed so much.

I agree with this. The paradigm for Heavyweight boxing has changed.

The argument that they were fitter because they boxed 15 rounds doesn't add up - they just paced the fights differently.

I would however say the old old boxers were fitter. Pre 1940's boxers were proper full time fighters - that would have developed real fitness & stamina.

Imo YES old school fighters where fitter the rounds where longer and the the equipment they used wasn't as good but ppl are still using old school training methods and having success with them now and yesterday's boxers didn't have the "supplements" that boxers have got!

they were fitter and for 'normal reasons.

life was harder and the psychology that went with it demanded a very hardened determined attitude, the work people had to do just to live and it wasn't manly to moan, whimper about it or complain, If you couldn't cut the grade you didn't work, play or eat... this also transferred in sport.

someone said there may have been many that gassed too, but because of lack of footage we can't know... well sure there would have been those that gassed, but they were known as No hopers and poor Club Fighters... but at the TOP you had to cut it, or you weren't at the TOP it's that simple.

managers, promoters and investors wouldn't back such fighters.

today a lot of Good fighters get chances that even great fighters in the past didn't with all the Alpha-Bet Belts and fewer numbers in general in the sport.

But mostly it came down to the DEMANDS of Life, the Mind that went with that and as someone else said they were Fulltime Fighters, Fighting was their Trade, they were Prize Fighters (I love that expression, it really sums up the man), and IF you couldn't cut it at the TOP, you didn't play!

I always site the example of RJJ, EXCELLENT though he was, look what happened to him when stepping up, not only did it expose his vulnerabilities, it broke his heart and he was NEVER the Same... so imagine RJJ or most other modern fighters fighting 2 or 3 times a month among TOP men, don't you think that might have happened sooner(???).

Well for those TOP Men of yesteryear who for long periods fought each other at the Top, you can NEVER question their worth - they Did It and it's a recorded fact!

In the 15th round of an already frenetic fight, Holmes and Norton stand and have a punch up of pure hellfire. Joshua is fighting exhaustion in round 5 of a low activity fight. It's like watching different sports.

Heavyweights have not only packed on masses of debilitating fat and muscle, they seem to have neglected all of the subtle aspects of fighting. It's all power attacks, nothing else. The ring IQ among modern heavyweights is shockingly low.

Tuan_Jim wrote:In the 15th round of an already frenetic fight, Holmes and Norton stand and have a punch up of pure hellfire. Joshua is fighting exhaustion in round 5 of a low activity fight. It's like watching different sports.

Heavyweights have not only packed on masses of debilitating fat and muscle, they seem to have neglected all of the subtle aspects of fighting. It's all power attacks, nothing else. The ring IQ among modern heavyweights is shockingly low.

Great post

Brace yourself, the Joshua done well and wethered the storm so please don't bad mouth him or critiscise him posters are coming

ElJefe wrote:I think that the role of strength and conditioning coaches in relation to actual boxing trainers needs to be redressed. Too many boxers/fitness coaches thinking training is about getting in shape. James Toney is probably a good example of an old school fighter in the modern day. I know he didn't fight at a fast pace which helped him to conserve energy, but he'd probably be a S+C coach's worst nightmare. When he was in the ring though, he was so relaxed that he could fight all day. A big factor in that relaxation comes from his skill level, I think the old school guys were taught rather than just being trained. They were smarter, more skillful and understood boxing which would have helped them do the rounds comfortably.

It's like the Bob Paisley quote that was something along the lines of "at the highest level, the first 5 yards are in your head." The old school fighters were probably a step ahead mentally due to their skill and knowledge, so they made things easier for themselves. I feel like I'm waffling now but hopefully I got my point across.

knockout wrote:The smaller guys, due to the many more weight classes, cut too much weight and this has an adverse effect on their stamina also.

Back in the day fighters were much busier too so didn't have to spend the first month of training camp getting weight off, they were always at fighting weight.

Agreed. If boxers of today were fighting 6+ times a year at their natural weight, rather than undergoing drastic weight cuts and therefore fighting less regularly, they'd probably be much fitter by fight night.

What an excellent post. I think the bit highlighted is a fantastic quote and sums up my thoughts; the issue today is more around skill deficiency rather than fitness per say.

Hours spent with a strength+conditioning coach could be better spent with the trainer, not just hitting pads, but drilling different scenarios like fighting off the ropes, survival tactics when hurt, applying educated pressure with feet+feints etc, breaking down the intricacies of inside fighting - head position, correct balance, manipulating opponents arms etc

I honestly think it would be more productive for any fighter to sit down and watch hours of footage of Roberto Duran+really break down and understand how he was so effective, than hours spent with a muscled up S+C coach doing a multitude of exercises that will have no bearing on whether they can effectively move their f*cking head in a fight.

Like ElJefe says, if some boxers understood more aspects of the game, and spent more time being taught effectively how+why to deal with situations in the ring, then that allows more relaxation+ability to conserve energy whilst fighting late into a hard contest if necessary

Fitter, tougher, smarter, much more active and didn't fight in air conditioned arenas.

In Floyd Patterson's autobiography, he mentions how nervous he was ahead of one fight because he had 'only' had nine fights that year. Different men.