BoxRec

Excuse my amateur boxing ignorance, but what is a countback?
As we know, Andy Lee was eliminated tonight on such a thing and I'm baffled as to how a wild-swinging Cameroon could be favoured over someone who was the better stylist.

bennie wrote:Excuse my amateur boxing ignorance, but what is a countback?
As we know, Andy Lee was eliminated tonight on such a thing and I'm baffled as to how a wild-swinging Cameroon could be favoured over someone who was the better stylist.

The Beeb explained it as the following...

5 judges score the fight.

If scores are level at the end of the fight then the highest and lowest scores given to each fighter are eliminated and the judges middle 3 scores are totalled for a new score for each fighter. This new score is used to see who is the winner.

Don't ask me what happens if the total of those 3 scores are level.

Hope this helps.

Matchfixer wrote:

bennie wrote:Excuse my amateur boxing ignorance, but what is a countback?
As we know, Andy Lee was eliminated tonight on such a thing and I'm baffled as to how a wild-swinging Cameroon could be favoured over someone who was the better stylist.

The Beeb explained it as the following...

5 judges score the fight.

If scores are level at the end of the fight then the highest and lowest scores given to each fighter are eliminated and the judges middle 3 scores are totalled for a new score for each fighter. This new score is used to see who is the winner.

Don't ask me what happens if the total of those 3 scores are level.

Hope this helps.

Cheers. Wish I'd stayed in ignorance.

it was a good fight, and lee did well to come back, a couple of shots should of counted.

Lee's got a nice straight left, with further development it could be very good.

On paper with the style of the African you would say a mobile guy like Lee was a heavy favourite to win, Amir Khan has a similar situation with his Korean opponent with him being a lot faster and more mobile, you just can't take anything for granted.

I have never agreed with the amateur computer scoring system. It is one of the reasons why I turned pro at the youngest age possible, 18. In my last amateur fight at 17, I fought in the Gaelic Games (where I picked up a bronze medal). In the semi-final, I fought the eventual gold medalist...can't remember his name, I think it was Paul Watson. Was swarming all over him and was clearly the more aggressive throughout the contest; I definitely felt that I was doing enough to win. Landed the cleaner and harder shots. Nevertheless they had me losing by about 10 points or something. All Watson was doing was running around me sticking out weak swiping jabs and crosses all the time. Thats when I said, f*uck this, I don't want any more of this crap, and went pro.

Dynamite Dean Phillips wrote:I have never agreed with the amateur computer scoring system. It is one of the reasons why I turned pro at the youngest age possible, 18. In my last amateur fight at 17, I fought in the Gaelic Games (where I picked up a bronze medal). In the semi-final, I fought the eventual gold medalist...can't remember his name, I think it was Paul Watson. Was swarming all over him and was clearly the more aggressive throughout the contest; I definitely felt that I was doing enough to win. Landed the cleaner and harder shots. Nevertheless they had me losing by about 10 points or something. All Watson was doing was running around me sticking out weak swiping jabs and crosses all the time. Thats when I said, f*uck this, I don't want any more of this crap, and went pro.

The way the amateur game has gone, it's almost as if they set out to deliberately destroy it a few years ago. There were only a few hundred spectators at this year's ABA finals, so they've done a pretty good job.
Sad.

I have noticed alot of quality is going from the sport, even some of the Cuban's don't seem to be punching with authority (or even correctly). Amateur boxing almost resembles fencing now.

Dissapointed with both Lee and the Cameroon fighter, Lee should have dominated the fight but doesn't seem able to adapt that much.

I noticed Jim Neilly state that the Cameroon fighter was landing some classy look right hands, I didn't see one that could be described as that - wild swinging fighter fits his description, but I saw him as the rightful winner in this fight under these rules.

From what I have seen, when the fights are level, the countback system tends to favour the fighter who was throwing more punches (obviously). This was the Cameroon fighter.

I think the lack of hand protection prevents a lot of guys from really letting go. They don't let you tape your hands up and its far easier to hurt your hand if you catch someone on the head.

I agree with Left Hook, the game has more emphasis on skill than ever and it's the tappers and runners who benefit...i have never seen the scoring of body punches so neglected. The Olympic judges are practically outlawing it...and those constant cries of "Keep them up" from the over bearing refs is driving me crazy!!

steve689 wrote:i have never seen the scoring of body punches so neglected. The Olympic judges are practically outlawing it

I'm pretty sure I've heard on the BBC commentary that body shots are being scored more than ever before where perhaps in the past they've been ignored.

I could be wrong of course.

What I find strange is you hardly see any stoppages any more - the computer scoring system has led to an explosion in southpaw Audley Harrisons. In the 1988 Olympic Games (the last games under the old five judges scoring system), there were quick wins all the way through the games - several in the finals themselves (Lewis-Bowe for one example).
Now, you rarely see a knockout. When I mentioned David Haye wobbling Odlanier Solis the other day in the final of the world championships, several people commented on how seeing a man "go" at that level is a rarity.
I was astonished.

Matchfixer wrote:

steve689 wrote:i have never seen the scoring of body punches so neglected. The Olympic judges are practically outlawing it

I'm pretty sure I've heard on the BBC commentary that body shots are being scored more than ever before where perhaps in the past they've been ignored.

I could be wrong of course.

I've been noticing that body jabs have been scoring, but Andy Lee did get in some good non-jab body shots in, without scoring.

I was criticised in sparring for jabbing to the body, because it apparently didn't score (thats of course by the non-computer method of judging). I personally think its an under used punch (in the pro's) and glad to see it being registered in these games. Ali and Leonard used to use it alot.

Lol Dynamite Dean Phillips
Yes the name was Paul Watson and as far as I remember it wasn’t the first time I beat you, there was no count back involved in our bout. I beat you easily by 10 computer scoring points, as you were my first and easiest fight in the Games, I took it easy in our fight. I had to change my style of boxing in order to suit the points scoring, which obviously worked by winning Gold. But I agree with you about the point scoring . It’s took a lot out of boxing . And that’s why I turned pro also right after the games .

The wild swinging Cameroonian mentioned in the first post as the inferior stylist was Hassan N'dam, who is actually more of a stylist than Lee. Excellent footwork, just glass for a chin.

Being an easier on the eye stylist doesn't default someone to landing more punches than a wild swinging opponent anyway

16 years old this thread is! Crazy how nothing has changed with amateur boxing, judges etc. and funny reading about Andy Lee and Hassan N’dam as amateurs. A few hundred people at the ABAs would be nice.

Paulwatson1976 wrote: ↑05 Sep 2020, 13:44 Lol Dynamite Dean Phillips
Yes the name was Paul Watson and as far as I remember it wasn’t the first time I beat you, there was no count back involved in our bout. I beat you easily by 10 computer scoring points, as you were my first and easiest fight in the Games, I took it easy in our fight. I had to change my style of boxing in order to suit the points scoring, which obviously worked by winning Gold. But I agree with you about the point scoring . It’s took a lot out of boxing . And that’s why I turned pro also right after the games .

Why did you call it quits after 3 bouts as a pro? Looks like you could have achieved some success....

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑05 Sep 2020, 16:02 The wild swinging Cameroonian mentioned in the first post as the inferior stylist was Hassan N'dam, who is actually more of a stylist than Lee. Excellent footwork, just glass for a chin.

Being an easier on the eye stylist doesn't default someone to landing more punches than a wild swinging opponent anyway

To be fair, Lee was hardly carved out of granite.

Both good fighters though, who went on to become World champions as pros.

Lee’s brother was red hot.

black panther wrote: ↑06 Sep 2020, 04:33

Paulwatson1976 wrote: ↑05 Sep 2020, 13:44 Lol Dynamite Dean Phillips
Yes the name was Paul Watson and as far as I remember it wasn’t the first time I beat you, there was no count back involved in our bout. I beat you easily by 10 computer scoring points, as you were my first and easiest fight in the Games, I took it easy in our fight. I had to change my style of boxing in order to suit the points scoring, which obviously worked by winning Gold. But I agree with you about the point scoring . It’s took a lot out of boxing . And that’s why I turned pro also right after the games .

Why did you call it quits after 3 bouts as a pro? Looks like you could have achieved some success....

I didn’t exactly call it quits after 3 fights, , I moved to France with the intentions of fighting from there . Although didn’t quite work out that way so after a couple of year, I returned to Scotland. Then family came came along and priorities change

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑05 Sep 2020, 16:02 The wild swinging Cameroonian mentioned in the first post as the inferior stylist was Hassan N'dam, who is actually more of a stylist than Lee. Excellent footwork, just glass for a chin.

Being an easier on the eye stylist doesn't default someone to landing more punches than a wild swinging opponent anyway

Glass chin? Poor balance and defense but if that's a glass chin there is a whole lot of China out there.

dude goes down from a slight gust of wind, great recovery but gets hurt very easily, prob wouldve beat lem and quillin without it

not the worst chin out there of course

Neither stopped him.

Ya, excellent recovery when hurt, which is a ton

Doesn't happen with a glass chin.