BoxRec

This is almost impossible to predict. We don't really know good Ibeabuchi was. He only had two fights against opponents of any relevance. Shavers fought a ton of quality opponents with mixed results. My best guess is that Shavers wins a wild fight.

Ernie in 2

If Shavers wins I doubt it'd be easy given the chin and engine Ineabuchi showed versus Tua.

I'm one of the few, by the way, who felt Ibeabuchi deserved the nod in that great fight against Tua.

One thing, Ibeabuchi didn't have it mentally to have a long, sustained career. I think in any era he would've derailed. Does anyone know the story behind his rage and madness?

Autobarn wrote:One thing, Ibeabuchi didn't have it mentally to have a long, sustained career. I think in any era he would've derailed. Does anyone know the story behind his rage and madness?

Just a simpleton with some apparent mental illness thrown in. His mother believed in demons. It's Nigeria we're talking about.

Autobarn wrote:If Shavers wins I doubt it'd be easy given the chin and engine Ineabuchi showed versus Tua.

I'm one of the few, by the way, who felt Ibeabuchi deserved the nod in that great fight against Tua.

One thing, Ibeabuchi didn't have it mentally to have a long, sustained career. I think in any era he would've derailed. Does anyone know the story behind his rage and madness?

I didn't think the fight was great, but. I thought it was pretty universal that Ike deserved to win.

1st point ... It would be like Quarry-Shavers... Ike was massively bigger and stronger than the teeny weeny Quarry... so it would be over a lot faster.

2nd point ... Shavers was knocked out 7 times and had a glass chin... Ike was hit solid by big bombers like David Tua and never blinked and eyelash.

3rd point ... Shavers was so inept that he was even beaten by punching bag Bob Stallings who was 21-24 coming in.. He had Shavers down for a 9-count

4th point ... Ike Ibeabuchi could box. He scored a UD over top undefeated Heavyweight contender David Tua when he had only 16 fights

5th point ... Ike Ibeabuchi had super fast hands. He was so quick that he laughed at undefeated master boxer Chris Byrd. Then he smashed CB out early.

6th point ... Ike Ibeabuchi was undefeated and untied for his whole career... Chris Byrd said, "Ike was the future of Boxing were he allowed to continue."

Just to underscore how easily Ike Ibeabuchi would dispose of Earnie Shavers...

Ron Stander had less experience than Earnie Shavers.. He was a very crude swinger who only had 9 fights and was super easy to hit.. Stander easily absorbed the biggest bombs Earnie Shavers could muster and he knocked Earnie Shavers flat out cold... A freakin' ICE JOB!!!

Ron Lyle, Bernardo Mercado, and Tex Cobb were 3 other great big strong galoots who were easy to hit but were able to absorb the much smaller Earnie Shavers' best shots... They took all the incoming Earnie Shavers could dish out and they all stopped Earnie Shavers contributing to his 7 KO losses.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Autobarn wrote:If Shavers wins I doubt it'd be easy given the chin and engine Ineabuchi showed versus Tua.

I'm one of the few, by the way, who felt Ibeabuchi deserved the nod in that great fight against Tua.

One thing, Ibeabuchi didn't have it mentally to have a long, sustained career. I think in any era he would've derailed. Does anyone know the story behind his rage and madness?

I didn't think the fight was great, but. I thought it was pretty universal that Ike deserved to win.

Many felt Tua's cleaner blows warranted him the verdict, including Ring's reporter

I felt it was a superb heavyweight battle, amazing workrate from Ibeabuchi and some of Tua's best sustained power punching.

I definitely see Ibeabuchi outlasting him.

But, what if he imploded in the ring? He handled the power of Tua well and the maddening style of Byrd also very well.

But maybe a few more fights and he would've earned a DQ, or had a breakdown, you never know. He didn't have a solid head on his shoulders.

So I have an asterisk next to Ibeabuchi in case he flipped, one way or another, inside the ropes for this mythical matchup.

Certainly it would not look good for Shavers if the fight goes beyond five or six rounds.

have to agree with kalan. a man who can stand right in front and trade with tua would be a heavy favourite v earnie.

It seems like a pretty good match up for Ibeabuchi. His career was cut short, but wins over Tua and Byrd definitely give him some credibility against legit fighters. And, beating two guys that had such differing styles is impressive as well.

As for the Chris Byrd quote, I did a quick google search and it came back, "no documents match your search" Too bad, reading first hand accounts of sporting events I remember watching is one of my favorite things to do. I was hoping there was a write up out there somewhere.

jas80s wrote:It seems like a pretty good match up for Ibeabuchi. His career was cut short, but wins over Tua and Byrd definitely give him some credibility against legit fighters. And, beating two guys that had such differing styles is impressive as well.

As for the Chris Byrd quote, I did a quick google search and it came back, "no documents match your search" Too bad, reading first hand accounts of sporting events I remember watching is one of my favorite things to do. I was hoping there was a write up out there somewhere.

Byrd definitely referred to Ibeabuchi as the future of Boxing at one point in an interview when asked about the fight. Every quote you google doesn't come up. You have to remember that Tua had 16 fights and Tua was 27-0 when they fought and Ike thew and landed many more punches.. Maybe that was why it was a UD.. A more mature Ibeabuchi rubbed out Chris Byrd -- the same Chris Byrd who won a UD over a prime Tua.

Usually great boxers beat great punchers... In Ike's case boxer-puncher beats puncher -- then boxer-puncher beats boxer... I'm not saying Ike was a finished and polished boxer against Byrd.. He was improving rapidly and had a distance to go skill wise.. But he was getting there.. He definitely had the balance and reflexes to slip punches well and respond very quickly with great hand speed...

He didn't get popped with jabs like George Foreman vs Jimmy Young -- like Canelo Alvarez vs Floyd Mayweather Jr -- like Jack Dempsey vs Gene Tunney -- like David Lemieux vs Gennady Golovkin -- like Dick Tiger vs Emile Griffith -- like Mike Tyson vs Buster Douglas -- or even like David Tua vs Chris Byrd

Fighters who rely on outstanding punching power and iron chins to bail them out -- generally get lit up like Christmas Trees by master boxers.

Kalan wrote:

jas80s wrote:It seems like a pretty good match up for Ibeabuchi. His career was cut short, but wins over Tua and Byrd definitely give him some credibility against legit fighters. And, beating two guys that had such differing styles is impressive as well.

As for the Chris Byrd quote, I did a quick google search and it came back, "no documents match your search" Too bad, reading first hand accounts of sporting events I remember watching is one of my favorite things to do. I was hoping there was a write up out there somewhere.

Byrd definitely referred to Ibeabuchi as the future of Boxing at one point in an interview when asked about the fight. Every quote you google doesn't come up. You have to remember that Tua had 16 fights and Tua was 27-0 when they fought and Ike thew and landed many more punches.. Maybe that was why it was a UD.. A more mature Ibeabuchi rubbed out Chris Byrd -- the same Chris Byrd who won a UD over a prime Tua.

Usually great boxers beat great punchers... In Ike's case boxer-puncher beats puncher -- then boxer-puncher beats boxer... I'm not saying Ike was a finished and polished boxer against Byrd.. He was improving rapidly and had a distance to go skill wise.. But he was getting there.. He definitely had the balance and reflexes to slip punches well and respond very quickly with great hand speed...

He didn't get popped with jabs like George Foreman vs Jimmy Young -- like Canelo Alvarez vs Floyd Mayweather Jr -- like Jack Dempsey vs Gene Tunney -- like David Lemieux vs Gennady Golovkin -- like Dick Tiger vs Emile Griffith -- like Mike Tyson vs Buster Douglas -- or even like David Tua vs Chris Byrd

Fighters who rely on outstanding punching power and iron chins to bail them out -- generally get lit up like Christmas Trees by master boxers.

I can never seem to locate your quotes, which is a shame because they are usually very provocative quotes that you don't often hear from fighters. As I say, I love reading about sports history and fighters giving their thoughts about their careers and how they see themselves and opponents, especially after the fact, is always interesting.

But, let's face it, if you believe Ibeabuchi could beat Wladimir Klitschko, then he was in fact the future of the Heavyweight division as it turns out, so Byrd wasn't being that outlandish here. This quote was pretty tame.

I would just like to see a dynamic smaller heavyweight come along just to see how he would do with the giants today. Your quote from Byrd just got me thinking about that and I wanted to hear his take.

I did find this excerpt from an interview in 2016 on livefight.com

http://www.livefight.com/news.php?news_ ... =2016&m=04

Seems Byrd may be just a tad bitter about this guy. Not like the love he heaps on Golota and The Klitschko's in interviews.


Ibeabuchi, nick-named “The President”, was 19-0 (14) and feared after coming through a war to take David Tua’s unbeaten record two years previously. It was thus a match between two young, talented unbeaten heavyweight prospects yet Byrd held no fear ahead of the bout.

“I felt they put Ike on a pedestal after he beat Tua” Byrd reflects some 17 years later. “With big muscular guys like that I always had the intention to drag them into the second half of the fight. I’d make them miss, frustrate them and then when they tired, take over.”

“I did that with another big muscular guy in Jimmy Thunder (stopping him in the ninth) and I honestly thought I’d do the same to Ike. He had great stamina against Tua but its more draining hitting air than hitting the target so I really thought I was going to wear him down.”

For four rounds, Byrd kept Ibeabuchi at distance and avoided any big punches. Quicker of hand and foot, “Rapid Fire” was more than holding his own until a devastating left hook turned the fight on its head in the fifth round.

“I weighed in at 208lbs for that fight. You see I was never a heavyweight, that was 208 weighing in fully dressed with my body full of liquids. In essence, as in many of my fights, I was a cruiserweight against a heavyweight. He was a solid 244lbs…its heavyweight boxing and he just caught me before I could take the sting out of him.”

“The shot he caught me with; any other heavyweight would have gone down. I give him credit but it was something I worried about my whole career. I was a little guy and with these bigger guys they hit unbelievably hard and throw massive shots.”

“I was still avoided after Ike beat me though.”

I will say this though, the way he talks about getting hit by bigger guys lends a lot of credence to your oft stated belief that big heavyweights today would pretty well obliterate great fighters from the past through their combination of size and strength.

I've been around a long time... Fighters generally give themselves the best of it when they're talking about fights they lost... They have myriad excuses and explanations as to why they lost... and how they would have won if this, that, or the other thing wouldn't have happened...

In his autobiography I remember Archie Moore saying Marciano was hurt really bad when he dropped him and the referee took his sweet time wiping off Rocky's gloves and he gave Rocky's arms a few yanks to wake him up. I actually felt angry that Moore was mistreated so badly. But many years later I watched the video and was surprised.. Rocky was up at the count of 2 but the timekeeper kept tolling off 2 more seconds so the announcer says "the count was 4." And the referee didn't even take time to wipe Rocky's gloves off at all... and he certainly didn't yank on his arms to wake him up... and he got out of Moore's way immediately and let the fight resume... The fact is, Marciano was unhurt... I'm not trying to erect statues to Marciano who I never thought was real good...but this is how boxers mis-remember events of boxing matches they lost.

But not always... All his life Sonny Liston maintained he was given a raw deal and fast shuffle in Ali-Liston II... He said the count should have been suspended by the referee because Ali refused to go to a neutral corner.. The video record actually vindicates Liston... He was up without any count from the referee...and he squared off with Ali to resume fighting and ducked and slipped all of Ali's follow up punches... When Liston got up Ali, Liston, and referee Walcott all thought the fight was still on.. It's true that you can only be counted out by the referee and not the time keeper.. The referee usually picks up the count from the timekeeper at 1 or 2...not 12.. That's why the count is suspended if a boxer refuses to go to a neutral corner.

jas80s wrote:[
I can never seem to locate your quotes, which is a shame because they are usually very provocative quotes that you don't often hear from fighters.

Made up quotes are the best.

-Plato-

I like Shavers much more than I like Ike.

But on styles I may have to go with Ike.

I think the fight would look like Cobb-Shavers with more skill.

Shavers would be hitting a brick wall and then tire.

I think a prime Foreman may have been one of the few guys who could have stopped a prime Ike.

Ibeabuchi gave a strong performance versus Byrd - a remarkable result - but he seemed to be about to lose his rag. Right at the time of the stoppage. If Byrd had been more durable or able to survive I wonder what would've happened.

Anyway great talent that didn't last long.

jas80s wrote:I will say this though, the way he talks about getting hit by bigger guys lends a lot of credence to your oft stated belief that big heavyweights today would pretty well obliterate great fighters from the past through their combination of size and strength.

Neither Klit could obliterate Byrd in his prime and Wlad couldn't obliterate Haye, a bulked up 190lb man, for fear of return fire. If you can't obliterate Byrd or Haye, your size and strength is unlikely to obliterate any great heavyweights.

This has been a fun thread to read, and the opinions and their sources have been predictable.

Did Ike really have a TuaMan chin? It's possible, and if he did, I would end up agreeing with Kalan.

In this case I think the reasoning is very plausible.

Shavers was handled best by Quarry., your odds increase immensely if don't give him a chance to pull the trigger, or can wear him out.

Best to just get it over with. Not sure Ike was anywhere near as smart as Quarry. But it's not a bad bet.

BoxBuzz wrote:This has been a fun thread to read, and the opinions and their sources have been predictable.

Did Ike really have a TuaMan chin? It's possible, and if he did, I would end up agreeing with Kalan.

In this case I think the reasoning is very plausible.

Shavers was handled best by Quarry., your odds increase immensely if don't give him a chance to pull the trigger, or can wear him out.

Best to just get it over with. Not sure Ike was anywhere near as smart as Quarry. But it's not a bad bet.

I don't know man. I was thinking the same think going into the Byrd fight. But, the way he was able to handle Byrd at that time gave me a sense that he had higher ring IQ than I was giving him credit for. Chris was extremely slick at that point in time and frustrated a lot of highly talented boxers. But not Ike. Ike showed a lot of poise and patience in that fight, which was a stark difference from the Tua fight. I'm on the bandwagon that had him pegged for greatness had he not fucked up.

Jaywheel wrote:

jas80s wrote:[
I can never seem to locate your quotes, which is a shame because they are usually very provocative quotes that you don't often hear from fighters.

Made up quotes are the best.

-Plato-

I was thinking the same thing

Autobarn wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Autobarn wrote:If Shavers wins I doubt it'd be easy given the chin and engine Ineabuchi showed versus Tua.

I'm one of the few, by the way, who felt Ibeabuchi deserved the nod in that great fight against Tua.

One thing, Ibeabuchi didn't have it mentally to have a long, sustained career. I think in any era he would've derailed. Does anyone know the story behind his rage and madness?

I didn't think the fight was great, but. I thought it was pretty universal that Ike deserved to win.

Many felt Tua's cleaner blows warranted him the verdict, including Ring's reporter

I felt it was a superb heavyweight battle, amazing workrate from Ibeabuchi and some of Tua's best sustained power punching.

It certainly didn't suck, but it lacked drama. One thing is certain, Ike never faced a puncher anywhere near the caliber of shavers.

Tuan_Jim wrote:

jas80s wrote:I will say this though, the way he talks about getting hit by bigger guys lends a lot of credence to your oft stated belief that big heavyweights today would pretty well obliterate great fighters from the past through their combination of size and strength.

Neither Klit could obliterate Byrd in his prime and Wlad couldn't obliterate Haye, a bulked up 190lb man, for fear of return fire. If you can't obliterate Byrd or Haye, your size and strength is unlikely to obliterate any great heavyweights.

I would say Wlad's second performance against Byrd borders on obliteration, but, and this is a big but, with all due respect to Chris Byrd, he is not an all time great heavyweight by any measure. He had his strengths and he could be a tricky match up, but his offensive capabilities were nowhere near the all time great level.

Nonetheless, I am with you, but I thought in fairness to Kalan, who takes some pretty major heat here, I thought it was telling that Chris Byrd seemed to back him up here pretty much coming right out and saying that when these big dudes hit you, you can feel the difference.

But, my own personal opinion is that size can be a virtue or a vice. Sure, you can talk about guys being smaller, but when they get on the inside, the shorter arms turn into a virtue allowing you to throw quicker, shorter shots that get there first. Smaller often means quicker which is a good thing. A boxing match can have subtle nuance.

My take has always been the same, I have no idea how a 190 pound fighter would do against a good athlete who weights 260, such a monumental size difference just seems so absurd and that specific kind of match up is literally without precedent in my opinion. But, I would be shocked if a great 220-230 pound fighter couldn't be successful against 99.99 percent of 260 pound heavyweights. A 225 pound great fighter will have the quickness and power to put ANYONE on the canvas if they get there with any consistency.

jas80s wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:

jas80s wrote:I will say this though, the way he talks about getting hit by bigger guys lends a lot of credence to your oft stated belief that big heavyweights today would pretty well obliterate great fighters from the past through their combination of size and strength.

Neither Klit could obliterate Byrd in his prime and Wlad couldn't obliterate Haye, a bulked up 190lb man, for fear of return fire. If you can't obliterate Byrd or Haye, your size and strength is unlikely to obliterate any great heavyweights.

I would say Wlad's second performance against Byrd borders on obliteration, but, and this is a big but, with all due respect to Chris Byrd, he is not an all time great heavyweight by any measure. He had his strengths and he could be a tricky match up, but his offensive capabilities were nowhere near the all time great level.

Nonetheless, I am with you, but I thought in fairness to Kalan, who takes some pretty major heat here, I thought it was telling that Chris Byrd seemed to back him up here pretty much coming right out and saying that when these big dudes hit you, you can feel the difference.

But, my own personal opinion is that size can be a virtue or a vice. Sure, you can talk about guys being smaller, but when they get on the inside, the shorter arms turn into a virtue allowing you to throw quicker, shorter shots that get there first. Smaller often means quicker which is a good thing. A boxing match can have subtle nuance.

My take has always been the same, I have no idea how a 190 pound fighter would do against a good athlete who weights 260, such a monumental size difference just seems so absurd and that specific kind of match up is literally without precedent in my opinion. But, I would be shocked if a great 220-230 pound fighter couldn't be successful against 99.99 percent of 260 pound heavyweights. A 225 pound great fighter will have the quickness and power to put ANYONE on the canvas if they get there with any consistency.

Yes, Byrd had been on the wane for a couple of years when Wlad rematched him. He went 12 in his 2000 prime, where he also KOd Vitali.

We have seen such size disparities in Dempsey flattening Willard, Sharkey and Baer knocking Carnera around, Louis doing a number on B. Baer and Simon, Spinks wrecking Cooney, etc, but nothing ever counts because these men were natural born behemoths whereas Wlad is one who added extra muscle via weight lifting, which also greatly reduces his punch output and stamina in a tough fight.

We know empirically that a 190lb puncher can put giants on their back, but could they catch one as evasive as Wlad? My guess is that those far more intelligent operators of the past would note pretty quickly that his primary defence was leaping backwards in straight lines and elect to make him pay for such obvious readable strategy.