BoxRec

Gold medallist HW Tony Yoka debut with a KO over American undefeated thus achieving 19 points for a newcomer. Impressive, most new boxers get 0 or few then 5 points in 1st victory... I think we can expect another (or close to it) Anthony Joshua if Yoka keep fighting against average to good opponents.

http://www.lemonde.fr/sports-de-combat/ ... 16664.html

Joyce should've got the nod in their Olympic final. Shouldn't affect him a pro though. AJs done alright and he was fortunate in two of his Olympic fights.

I too thought Joyce was the better man in the final

The Frenchman was highly touted as an am though so I'd imagine they have high hopes for him in the pros!

imaioral wrote:Gold medallist HW Tony Yoka debut with a KO over American undefeated thus achieving 19 points for a newcomer. Impressive, most new boxers get 0 or few then 5 points in 1st victory... I think we can expect another (or close to it) Anthony Joshua if Yoka keep fighting against average to good opponents.

http://www.lemonde.fr/sports-de-combat/ ... 16664.html

About these box rec points, I think amateurs who win gold, silver or bronze in the Olympics or World Amateur championships should start out with bonus points that get taken away after 3 years being a pro.

Example: Gold 100 points, Silver 50 points, Bronze 25 points.

Yoka isn't Joshua. He lacks the power, but he is a tall man with mobility and skills for sure.

imaioral wrote:Gold medallist HW Tony Yoka debut with a KO over American undefeated thus achieving 19 points for a newcomer. Impressive, most new boxers get 0 or few then 5 points in 1st victory... I think we can expect another (or close to it) Anthony Joshua if Yoka keep fighting against average to good opponents.

http://www.lemonde.fr/sports-de-combat/ ... 16664.html

His opponent was nothing much despite the inflated record, and I imagine that many decent amateurs could've taken out that guy in their first pro bout.

As for being another Joshua, I'm not sure. As a 23-year-old, even after he won the World Championships and had been to the Olympics the first time, Yoka was beaten up and stopped by a chubby, much shorter Turkish boxer who is now a pro. Also keep in mind that while people complain about AJ winning a decision over Erislandy Savon, the Cuban KTFO'd Yoka.

In my view, between the Worlds and Olympics he got decisions in about 5 fights that could've gone to his opponents, and that's with the amateur SHW quality being relatively low at the time. No doubt he's talented, and the pro track record for SHW Olympic champs is fairly good (yes, there's Audley too), but he strikes me as someone who could suffer a 'surprise' defeat on the way up.

The time will show guys, from a boxer with an amateur career of 1 Gold in Olympics, 1 Gold in World Amateur Championships, 1 Gold by Summer Youth Olympics, 1 Silver in World Youth Championships, 1 Bronze in European Games, 1st Place in AIBA rankings (after olympics) and being the 2 first achievements most important for a boxer I think we all can see that he isn't a poo boxer and I bet he has great possibility to become a boxer with a future in the art if he keep good bouts.

pound per pound wrote:

imaioral wrote:Gold medallist HW Tony Yoka debut with a KO over American undefeated thus achieving 19 points for a newcomer. Impressive, most new boxers get 0 or few then 5 points in 1st victory... I think we can expect another (or close to it) Anthony Joshua if Yoka keep fighting against average to good opponents.

http://www.lemonde.fr/sports-de-combat/ ... 16664.html

About these box rec points, I think amateurs who win gold, silver or bronze in the Olympics or World Amateur championships should start out with bonus points that get taken away after 3 years being a pro.

Example: Gold 100 points, Silver 50 points, Bronze 25 points.

Yoka isn't Joshua. He lacks the power, but he is a tall man with mobility and skills for sure.

This is not true since somewhere here in boxrec they explain how the points are earned in any bout, take a look at Japan prospect Hinata Maruta, he got huge points in his 1st fight against a very experienced, active and with good points.

imaioral wrote:Gold medallist HW Tony Yoka debut with a KO over American undefeated thus achieving 19 points for a newcomer. Impressive, most new boxers get 0 or few then 5 points in 1st victory... I think we can expect another (or close to it) Anthony Joshua if Yoka keep fighting against average to good opponents.

http://www.lemonde.fr/sports-de-combat/ ... 16664.html

I like Yoka he picked an excellent trainer in Hunter expect big things in 3 years

Ossyrules wrote:I too thought Joyce was the better man in the final

The Frenchman was highly touted as an am though so I'd imagine they have high hopes for him in the pros!

I thought Hrgovic was the better in the semi finals and should have meet Joyce for the gold medal.

I hear Joyce, and Hrgovic are going pro. Combined with Yoka, the heavyweight division has some fine young prospects.

pound per pound wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:I too thought Joyce was the better man in the final

The Frenchman was highly touted as an am though so I'd imagine they have high hopes for him in the pros!

I thought Hrgovic was the better in the semi finals and should have meet Joyce for the gold medal.

I hear Joyce, and Hrgovic are going pro. Combined with Yoka, the heavyweight division has some fine young prospects.

Sure will!!

imaioral wrote:Gold medallist HW Tony Yoka debut with a KO over American undefeated thus achieving 19 points for a newcomer. Impressive, most new boxers get 0 or few then 5 points in 1st victory... I think we can expect another (or close to it) Anthony Joshua if Yoka keep fighting against average to good opponents.

http://www.lemonde.fr/sports-de-combat/ ... 16664.html

SUPER heavyweight gold medallist

imaioral wrote:

pound per pound wrote:

imaioral wrote:Gold medallist HW Tony Yoka debut with a KO over American undefeated thus achieving 19 points for a newcomer. Impressive, most new boxers get 0 or few then 5 points in 1st victory... I think we can expect another (or close to it) Anthony Joshua if Yoka keep fighting against average to good opponents.

http://www.lemonde.fr/sports-de-combat/ ... 16664.html

About these box rec points, I think amateurs who win gold, silver or bronze in the Olympics or World Amateur championships should start out with bonus points that get taken away after 3 years being a pro.

Example: Gold 100 points, Silver 50 points, Bronze 25 points.

Yoka isn't Joshua. He lacks the power, but he is a tall man with mobility and skills for sure.

This is not true since somewhere here in boxrec they explain how the points are earned in any bout, take a look at Japan prospect Hinata Maruta, he got huge points in his 1st fight against a very experienced, active and with good points.

He's not saying they do, he's saying they should.

I think, in the abstract, it's a reasonable idea. Although, based on how most amateur standouts get moved in the professionals, I think the numbers should be lower, like 60, 40, and 20. Either way, it would require that boxrec hook-in to external data sources, and may or may not require them to write additional database and UI features, like putting a 0th fight on the fighter's record to initialize the rating.

Welcome to the party Monsieur Tony

The points bonus idea reminds me of what they do in professional sumo. The top amateur rikishi (i.e. those who've won at least one of the four major amateur championships) get to start at a significantly elevated rank compared to those who don't. More often than not, these top amateurs quickly show that they belong at the relatively high rank they were placed at.

Wrestlers who finish in the top 8 of the major amateur championships also get an elevated rank, though not as high as those who win the tournaments.

imaioral wrote:The time will show guys, from a boxer with an amateur career of 1 Gold in Olympics, 1 Gold in World Amateur Championships, 1 Gold by Summer Youth Olympics, 1 Silver in World Youth Championships, 1 Bronze in European Games, 1st Place in AIBA rankings (after olympics) and being the 2 first achievements most important for a boxer I think we all can see that he isn't a poo boxer and I bet he has great possibility to become a boxer with a future in the art if he keep good bouts.

The list of Olympic and World medalists with no significant pro achivements is very very long! And vice versa, of course.
Pro boxing, specially in heavy divisions is very different game...durability, stamina, single punch are more important than technical capabilities...

Ossyrules wrote:I too thought Joyce was the better man in the final

The Frenchman was highly touted as an am though so I'd imagine they have high hopes for him in the pros!

Both of them were lame! No actual power punch in three rounds...

bigman1968 wrote:The list of Olympic and World medalists with no significant pro achivements is very very long! And vice versa, of course.
Pro boxing, specially in heavy divisions is very different game...durability, stamina, single punch are more important than technical capabilities...

NOT TRUE!!! ... Technical competence RULES at 250 or 105... The greatest boxer could also be the greatest puncher... Talent isn't an either/or situation.

Joshua fought several big, tall, strong, undefeated guys: Breazeale, Whyte, Martin, and Cornish.. They all thought they had a chance, but a minute or 2 into the fight and they were all disabused of any notion of winning, because they couldn't box -- except for Whyte who can box a little. He took a few rounds to convince.. George Foreman was the biggest, strongest guy of his era.. He was so discouraged over his lack of boxing finesse that he quit for 10 years.

pound per pound wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:I too thought Joyce was the better man in the final

The Frenchman was highly touted as an am though so I'd imagine they have high hopes for him in the pros!

I thought Hrgovic was the better in the semi finals and should have meet Joyce for the gold medal.

I hear Joyce, and Hrgovic are going pro. Combined with Yoka, the heavyweight division has some fine young prospects.

Agreed totally. Hunter will help Yoka a lot. Nice to see another super-sized fighter added to the HW mix!!

I was never a big fan of either Klitschko brother but will give them credit for revolutionizing the HW division in terms of the size needed to excel (6'6"+ and 250+). I dont think we'll see too many HW champs below that size in the future.

Is Hunter even that good of a trainer? One whose acquisition reflexively merits a 'smart move''? What's his fighter improvement resume?

I wouldnt say that he did much for Fonfara, Khan, Berto, or Angulo, though they'd been around longer than Yoka and were probably more set in their ways. Then again, Yoka is 25 and has been to the Olympics twice, so it's not as if he learned to box with Hunter like Ward did.

crusader wrote:Is Hunter even that good of a trainer? One whose acquisition reflexively merits a 'smart move''? What's his fighter improvement resume?

I wouldnt say that he did much for Fonfara, Khan, Berto, or Angulo, though they'd been around longer than Yoka and were probably more set in their ways. Then again, Yoka is 25 and has been to the Olympics twice, so it's not as if he learned to box with Hunter like Ward did.

I was thinking this after the Fonfara destruction yesterday. I find it hard to find how long a trainer has been with a fighter other than being reliant on memory or others memory. He's had major losses at the top level lately, that I can recall. Obviously the argument that he has managed to get fighters to the "top level" is significant but all those names you said have experienced significant loses including his golden child Ward and all the names were near that top level prior (I believe). Mayweathers been critical of him I know that. Something's odd about him in my opinion. Very good question regarding his fighters improvement resume, maybe someone will know. But its as if he got this reputation from Ward, established fighters have jumped ship for whatever reason and he has tweaked them or something and they end up KTFO.

Kalan wrote:

bigman1968 wrote:The list of Olympic and World medalists with no significant pro achivements is very very long! And vice versa, of course.
Pro boxing, specially in heavy divisions is very different game...durability, stamina, single punch are more important than technical capabilities...

NOT TRUE!!! ... Technical competence RULES at 250 or 105... The greatest boxer could also be the greatest puncher... Talent isn't an either/or situation.

Joshua fought several big, tall, strong, undefeated guys: Breazeale, Whyte, Martin, and Cornish.. They all thought they had a chance, but a minute or 2 into the fight and they were all disabused of any notion of winning, because they couldn't box -- except for Whyte who can box a little. He took a few rounds to convince.. George Foreman was the biggest, strongest guy of his era.. He was so discouraged over his lack of boxing finesse that he quit for 10 years.

Joshua and Klitchko are examples, but on the other hand I can give you 10 names of Olimpic medalist that failed in pro...starting with Harrison and Price...

bigman1968 wrote:

Kalan wrote:

bigman1968 wrote:The list of Olympic and World medalists with no significant pro achivements is very very long! And vice versa, of course.
Pro boxing, specially in heavy divisions is very different game...durability, stamina, single punch are more important than technical capabilities...

NOT TRUE!!! ... Technical competence RULES at 250 or 105... The greatest boxer could also be the greatest puncher... Talent isn't an either/or situation.

Joshua fought several big, tall, strong, undefeated guys: Breazeale, Whyte, Martin, and Cornish.. They all thought they had a chance, but a minute or 2 into the fight and they were all disabused of any notion of winning, because they couldn't box -- except for Whyte who can box a little. He took a few rounds to convince.. George Foreman was the biggest, strongest guy of his era.. He was so discouraged over his lack of boxing finesse that he quit for 10 years.

Joshua and Klitchko are examples, but on the other hand I can give you 10 names of Olimpic medalist that failed in pro...starting with Harrison and Price...

Only 10 names!?!, maybe will be just the few you'll write and not much more then that. About 80 to 90% of Olympic boxer's medalists success in their path into PRO career due to their more skilled preparation, general higher skills then ordinary amateur boxers and path to high achievements made. There is a statistic showing something like that more than 70% of gold medalists became world champions. For somebody that trained boxing or someone that knows more than a normal expectator and watch an ordinary amateur now pro to an Olympic medalist turned to pro you realize the technical difference between them.

imaioral wrote:

bigman1968 wrote:

Kalan wrote:
NOT TRUE!!! ... Technical competence RULES at 250 or 105... The greatest boxer could also be the greatest puncher... Talent isn't an either/or situation.

Joshua fought several big, tall, strong, undefeated guys: Breazeale, Whyte, Martin, and Cornish.. They all thought they had a chance, but a minute or 2 into the fight and they were all disabused of any notion of winning, because they couldn't box -- except for Whyte who can box a little. He took a few rounds to convince.. George Foreman was the biggest, strongest guy of his era.. He was so discouraged over his lack of boxing finesse that he quit for 10 years.

Joshua and Klitchko are examples, but on the other hand I can give you 10 names of Olimpic medalist that failed in pro...starting with Harrison and Price...

Only 10 names!?!, maybe will be just the few you'll write and not much more then that. About 80 to 90% of Olympic boxer's medalists success in their path into PRO career due to their more skilled preparation, general higher skills then ordinary amateur boxers and path to high achievements made. There is a statistic showing something like that more than 70% of gold medalists became world champions. For somebody that trained boxing or someone that knows more than a normal expectator and watch an ordinary amateur now pro to an Olympic medalist turned to pro you realize the technical difference between them.

It was 8 gold medalist so far (not including the last one) - 3 of them hold/held one of 4 major belts(and Balado that couldn't go pro in Communist Cuba)
But I was talking about medalists(including silver&bronze) - and here the statistics much worse...

imaioral wrote:

pound per pound wrote:

imaioral wrote:Gold medallist HW Tony Yoka debut with a KO over American undefeated thus achieving 19 points for a newcomer. Impressive, most new boxers get 0 or few then 5 points in 1st victory... I think we can expect another (or close to it) Anthony Joshua if Yoka keep fighting against average to good opponents.

http://www.lemonde.fr/sports-de-combat/ ... 16664.html

About these box rec points, I think amateurs who win gold, silver or bronze in the Olympics or World Amateur championships should start out with bonus points that get taken away after 3 years being a pro.

Example: Gold 100 points, Silver 50 points, Bronze 25 points.

Yoka isn't Joshua. He lacks the power, but he is a tall man with mobility and skills for sure.

This is not true since somewhere here in boxrec they explain how the points are earned in any bout, take a look at Japan prospect Hinata Maruta, he got huge points in his 1st fight against a very experienced, active and with good points.

My point is why make two fighters evenly ranked when they start out when one clearly is a top level amateur and the other is not.

Best Coast wrote:

pound per pound wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:I too thought Joyce was the better man in the final

The Frenchman was highly touted as an am though so I'd imagine they have high hopes for him in the pros!

I thought Hrgovic was the better in the semi finals and should have meet Joyce for the gold medal.

I hear Joyce, and Hrgovic are going pro. Combined with Yoka, the heavyweight division has some fine young prospects.

Agreed totally. Hunter will help Yoka a lot. Nice to see another super-sized fighter added to the HW mix!!

I was never a big fan of either Klitschko brother but will give them credit for revolutionizing the HW division in terms of the size needed to excel (6'6"+ and 250+). I dont think we'll see too many HW champs below that size in the future.

I agree with you, but don't tell that to the posters in the history forum!

Sports evolve. In just about every sport, the athletes are getting bigger, faster and stronger.

The days of 200-215 pound heavyweight champions with less than a 75" reach appear to be over. Well in theory they will often had a puncher's chance, but their boxer's chance is extremely low.

The top-ranked pro's and amateurs all seem to be around 6'4' to 6'7" big men with an 80-inch reach or greater, weighing at least 230 pounds. How much have things changed? Such a man used to be rare 25-50 years ago, now they are common.