BoxRec

Espn knows sh:'×t about boxing. The ring, ones the bible of boxing cant be taken seriously since years. They had a mma girl on a boxing cover . they had ward as p4p#1 after the first kovalev when 80 % of all people/media had kovalev as the winner. The ring should be amongs the biggest experts in boxing and know who truly won and who got a gift descision and in that order do their rankings! How can u rate somebody as p4p 1 when there is video evidence that his last 3 punches that made the fake ko where low blows? Gvozdyk and bertebiev are younger, dont gass out after 6, have equal power to kovalev and would fu;!@(k ward up badly.

Trues must stay trues. Its true that ward is a very goiy boxer. Its true that had he truly won both kovalev fights that in terms of record he would be the boxer with the best record in boxing. I say best record, surely not best boxer cause in terms of speed, footwork, punch variation he is far away from the best boxer in the world which is loma.

1. Lomachenko
2. Crawford
Are 2 clear picks!
3.-10. Are tough choices, thurman & spence have to fight each other. Kovalev's stamina is poor. Ward is juat a dirty boxer, who would get brutalized by bert or gvoz. Canelo, GGG, joshua, wangek and gonzales

Bro, I don't like Ward either. But any site that that omits Ward from their top 3 is bogus. I really don't see a case for anyone being #1 except for Ward. But, then again, depends on criteria I suppose. P4P lists have the potential for being ultra subjective. So, who knows...

Kessler, Froch, Dawson and Kovalev are better than anyone the other two have beaten. No idea how Ward isn't number one.

Jip, you are having a hard time with dealing with last week's result. You gotta let it go man.

Who's your favorite fighter?

Impractical Poster wrote:Bro, I don't like Ward either. But any site that that omits Ward from their top 3 is bogus. I really don't see a case for anyone being #1 except for Ward. But, then again, depends on criteria I suppose. P4P lists have the potential for being ultra subjective. So, who knows...

Impractical Poster wrote:Bro, I don't like Ward either. But any site that that omits Ward from their top 3 is bogus. I really don't see a case for anyone being #1 except for Ward. But, then again, depends on criteria I suppose. P4P lists have the potential for being ultra subjective. So, who knows...

This is true he's got one of if not the best resume in the sport. Put his body in a lighter weight plus and minus the advantages and disadvantages and he's a winner but he's only a winner with a ref and officials that allow him to fight that way. He's a wildcard, a hybrid boxer. Very fine boxer but add in the grappling plan b or A, depending on the opponent - for example he'll out box Alexander Brand soundly but will out grapple kovalev from the onset and that gives anyone in boxing a hard time. I don't like and respect it but he is a nightmare to fight, but again he has to be allowed to fight like that and he has so it is what it is. He wouldn't be as effective with a ref like Kenny Baylis.

Covfefe wrote:Kessler, Froch, Dawson and Kovalev are better than anyone the other two have beaten. No idea how Ward isn't number one.

Except the other two don't need pocket judges and refs to allow non-stop fouling. Kessler and Kovalev "wins" can't be compared with real wins.

Covfefe wrote:Kessler, Froch, Dawson and Kovalev are better than anyone the other two have beaten. No idea how Ward isn't number one.

If we only go by names beaten than manny is p4p #1, cause marquez, barrera, morales, hatton, cotto, bradley are better opponents that what ward faced. So why isnt manny #1? Cause he is old, out of prime and lost his speed and power. Why is ward not #1? Cause he doesnt have exceptional footwork, speex and overall skills like lomachenko and has what many feel 1 clear loss to kovalev and one fight that was more a dq loss than an rightfully ud win.

Jip wrote:

Covfefe wrote:Kessler, Froch, Dawson and Kovalev are better than anyone the other two have beaten. No idea how Ward isn't number one.

If we only go by names beaten than manny is p4p #1, cause marquez, barrera, morales, hatton, cotto, bradley are better opponents that what ward faced. So why isnt manny #1? Cause he is old, out of prime and lost his speed and power. Why is ward not #1? Cause he doesnt have exceptional footwork, speex and overall skills like lomachenko and has what many feel 1 clear loss to kovalev and one fight that was more a dq loss than an rightfully ud win.

Anyone who thinks he clearly lost to Kovalev is an idiot.

I guess it's all how you rank you pound for pound, I do it by the quality of fighter they've beaten. And Ward is miles in front.

boxing_rocks wrote:

Covfefe wrote:Kessler, Froch, Dawson and Kovalev are better than anyone the other two have beaten. No idea how Ward isn't number one.

Except the other two don't need pocket judges and refs to allow non-stop fouling. Kessler and Kovalev "wins" can't be compared with real wins.

I disagree.

He was dirty against Kessler, but blame the referee. Why would Ward stop doing something the referee isn't stopping him doing? Though I agree he was very dirty that night but it is what it is.

lazboy wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote:Bro, I don't like Ward either. But any site that that omits Ward from their top 3 is bogus. I really don't see a case for anyone being #1 except for Ward. But, then again, depends on criteria I suppose. P4P lists have the potential for being ultra subjective. So, who knows...

Impractical Poster wrote:Bro, I don't like Ward either. But any site that that omits Ward from their top 3 is bogus. I really don't see a case for anyone being #1 except for Ward. But, then again, depends on criteria I suppose. P4P lists have the potential for being ultra subjective. So, who knows...

This is true he's got one of if not the best resume in the sport. Put his body in a lighter weight plus and minus the advantages and disadvantages and he's a winner but he's only a winner with a ref and officials that allow him to fight that way. He's a wildcard, a hybrid boxer. Very fine boxer but add in the grappling plan b or A, depending on the opponent - for example he'll out box Alexander Brand soundly but will out grapple kovalev from the onset and that gives anyone in boxing a hard time. I don't like and respect it but he is a nightmare to fight, but again he has to be allowed to fight like that and he has so it is what it is. He wouldn't be as effective with a ref like Kenny Baylis.

I agree. He has a different style for any fighter it seems. Smart dude. Maybe that's why Bayless has not officiated any of his fights?

Covfefe wrote:

Jip wrote:

Covfefe wrote:Kessler, Froch, Dawson and Kovalev are better than anyone the other two have beaten. No idea how Ward isn't number one.

If we only go by names beaten than manny is p4p #1, cause marquez, barrera, morales, hatton, cotto, bradley are better opponents that what ward faced. So why isnt manny #1? Cause he is old, out of prime and lost his speed and power. Why is ward not #1? Cause he doesnt have exceptional footwork, speex and overall skills like lomachenko and has what many feel 1 clear loss to kovalev and one fight that was more a dq loss than an rightfully ud win.

Anyone who thinks he clearly lost to Kovalev is an idiot.

I guess it's all how you rank you pound for pound, I do it by the quality of fighter they've beaten. And Ward is miles in front.

1 fight he lost, clear or close, who cares. The first one he lost.

The second fight he was behind most scorecard or prety even when the low blow end came.

So your p4p #1 is somebody who most feel lost his first fight with kovalev and had an even scorecard in the second fight when fake stoppage happened. Laughable.

Jip wrote:

Covfefe wrote:

Jip wrote:
If we only go by names beaten than manny is p4p #1, cause marquez, barrera, morales, hatton, cotto, bradley are better opponents that what ward faced. So why isnt manny #1? Cause he is old, out of prime and lost his speed and power. Why is ward not #1? Cause he doesnt have exceptional footwork, speex and overall skills like lomachenko and has what many feel 1 clear loss to kovalev and one fight that was more a dq loss than an rightfully ud win.

Anyone who thinks he clearly lost to Kovalev is an idiot.

I guess it's all how you rank you pound for pound, I do it by the quality of fighter they've beaten. And Ward is miles in front.

1 fight he lost, clear or close, who cares. The first one he lost.

The second fight he was behind most scorecard or prety even when the low blow end came.

So your p4p #1 is somebody who most feel lost his first fight with kovalev and had an even scorecard in the second fight when fake stoppage happened. Laughable.

I had him winning the first fight and how can you penalise a fighter for a referees mistake? He had Kovalev ready to go anyway.

Covfefe wrote:

Jip wrote:

Covfefe wrote:
Anyone who thinks he clearly lost to Kovalev is an idiot.

I guess it's all how you rank you pound for pound, I do it by the quality of fighter they've beaten. And Ward is miles in front.

1 fight he lost, clear or close, who cares. The first one he lost.

The second fight he was behind most scorecard or prety even when the low blow end came.

So your p4p #1 is somebody who most feel lost his first fight with kovalev and had an even scorecard in the second fight when fake stoppage happened. Laughable.

I had him winning the first fight and how can you penalise a fighter for a referees mistake? He had Kovalev ready to go anyway.

You dont seem to understand boxing. You win fight by outlanding your opponent, by punching your opponent, at best with hard punches or knock downs. You dont win by excessive holding, light punches and low blows. Except when have judges and tefs on your side, which is corrupt, therefore illegal.

Jip wrote:

Covfefe wrote:

Jip wrote:
1 fight he lost, clear or close, who cares. The first one he lost.

The second fight he was behind most scorecard or prety even when the low blow end came.

So your p4p #1 is somebody who most feel lost his first fight with kovalev and had an even scorecard in the second fight when fake stoppage happened. Laughable.

I had him winning the first fight and how can you penalise a fighter for a referees mistake? He had Kovalev ready to go anyway.

You dont seem to understand boxing. You win fight by outlanding your opponent, by punching your opponent, at best with hard punches or knock downs. You dont win by excessive holding, light punches and low blows. Except when have judges and tefs on your side, which is corrupt, therefore illegal.

Sorry, I didn't realise you were an idiot when I started to converse with you.

Carry on without me.

Ring Magazine is not consistent when rating boxers based on the results of fights. They rate Roman Gonzalez No. 3 P4P in spite of the fact that he lost to Wangek/Rungvisai in his last fight. They also have him rated No. 3 in the junior bantamweight division behind No. 1 Inoue and No. 2 Rungvisai. It makes no sense. I disagree with Ring Magazine rating Andre Ward and Gonzalez high on the P4P list. People talk about Ward's resume, but Pacquiao's is much better. Even though he is 38 years old, he should be somewhere on a P4P list. Crawford, Lomachenko, and Golovkin should be top 3 (not necessarily in that order). Yamanaka, Pacquiao, Joshua, Thurman, and Leo Santa Cruz would be 4-8 (order is debatable). Frampton and Canelo would be 9-10. I would rather have Erislandy Lara as No. 10, but Canelo won a biased decision against Lara. I don't think anyone from light heavyweight should be rated P4P top 10.

Jip wrote:Espn knows sh:'×t about boxing. The ring, ones the bible of boxing cant be taken seriously since years. They had a mma girl on a boxing cover . they had ward as p4p#1 after the first kovalev when 80 % of all people/media had kovalev as the winner. The ring should be amongs the biggest experts in boxing and know who truly won and who got a gift descision and in that order do their rankings! How can u rate somebody as p4p 1 when there is video evidence that his last 3 punches that made the fake ko where low blows? Gvozdyk and bertebiev are younger, dont gass out after 6, have equal power to kovalev and would fu;!@(k ward up badly.

Trues must stay trues. Its true that ward is a very goiy boxer. Its true that had he truly won both kovalev fights that in terms of record he would be the boxer with the best record in boxing. I say best record, surely not best boxer cause in terms of speed, footwork, punch variation he is far away from the best boxer in the world which is loma.

1. Lomachenko
2. Crawford
Are 2 clear picks!
3.-10. Are tough choices, thurman & spence have to fight each other. Kovalev's stamina is poor. Ward is juat a dirty boxer, who would get brutalized by bert or gvoz. Canelo, GGG, joshua, wangek and gonzales

Trues must stay trues you say and here your #1 P4P Boxer was defeated 3 years ago by an old man with over 10 losses. Interesting. Selective amnesia.

Top notch. I'll just take your word that The Ring is full of shit.

I'm sure your ranking is much better, in fact it's so good you don't even know it.

RScarf1 wrote:Ring Magazine is not consistent when rating boxers based on the results of fights. They rate Roman Gonzalez No. 3 P4P in spite of the fact that he lost to Wangek/Rungvisai in his last fight. They also have him rated No. 3 in the junior bantamweight division behind No. 1 Inoue and No. 2 Rungvisai. It makes no sense. I disagree with Ring Magazine rating Andre Ward and Gonzalez high on the P4P list. People talk about Ward's resume, but Pacquiao's is much better. Even though he is 38 years old, he should be somewhere on a P4P list. Crawford, Lomachenko, and Golovkin should be top 3 (not necessarily in that order). Yamanaka, Pacquiao, Joshua, Thurman, and Leo Santa Cruz would be 4-8 (order is debatable). Frampton and Canelo would be 9-10. I would rather have Erislandy Lara as No. 10, but Canelo won a biased decision against Lara. I don't think anyone from light heavyweight should be rated P4P top 10.

Because it's P4P and he's smaller.

I don't care if Gonzalez is smaller. It was his choice to fight in that division and he was the defending champion. That is the division he is rated in. That is his current division. Are we going to do that with all boxers who move up in weight?: Well, he was better in his previous weight class.

He didn't lose that fight in the minds of most, no reason to use official bullshit decisions in a p4p ranking. Roman is fine anywhere in the top 5. The ring is a clown act, but not for that.

Whether he won or lost, Roman didn't look good in his last two fights against bigger men. I almost wanted him out of the ring, so much punishment the little guy was taking.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:He didn't lose that fight in the minds of most, no reason to use official bullshit decisions in a p4p ranking. Roman is fine anywhere in the top 5. The ring is a clown act, but not for that.

I agree, but they are not consistent with that. Even though the Ward vs. Kovalev rematch was a controversial stoppage, Ring Magazine regards it as a legitimate win for their P4P ratings.

1. Lomachenko
2. Crawford
3. GGG
4. Canelo
5. Kovalev
6. Ward
7. Thurman
8. Spence
9. Gonzales
10. Wangek

Thats how a reasonable p4p list should look like. Ward is a good boxer, he lost 2 times to kovalev, but he is more sm than lh. In that p4p sense he is equal kovalev. Kovalev sucks. You cannot be an elite boxer but gass out after 6 rounds. Fail. The top 3 are set in stone. These are the current best boxers in the world. Ggg has atg power. Loma has atg footwork & skills and crawford is just a complete boxer with high level stamina and power. They are the best. They fight the best. Dont need hometown judges or illegal tactics to get the job done.

Alright then in no particular order, the no brainers are Loma, Rigo, Crawford, GGG and ward, Pacman gets in on merit, so that leaves 4 more which is where I struggle, the options I can think of would include- Gonzales, Inoue, Garcia, Thurman, Joshua, Spence and probably loads of lower weight fighters I'm missing out so a top six is all can confidently reach

littlepug wrote:Alright then in no particular order, the no brainers are Loma, Rigo, Crawford, GGG and ward, Pacman gets in on merit, so that leaves 4 more which is where I struggle, the options I can think of would include- Gonzales, Inoue, Garcia, Thurman, Joshua, Spence and probably loads of lower weight fighters I'm missing out so a top six is all can confidently reach

Talent wise rigo is 2. But It is as if he was retired. He just fights nobodys. Pac is not top 10 anymore. How can he be top p4p when he is like 3 in his own weight division. Prime thurman & prime spence have the youth, the power. Pac is old, lost his power. Cant even tko jessie vargas, someone who would get wrecked by spence or thurman. His time is over.