BoxRec

In their primes.....

I would not bet on this one, but am interested in people's thoughts.

I don't think I'd be throwing away my money if I bet on Quarry.....I just don't think I'd want to take such chances

on what in my opinion would be such a close fight.

If we're talking peaks I think Young might nick it. Both were better when waiting on their opponent to take the lead, trouble is Young probably isn't going to and Quarry at some stage will want a fight, then Young starts to pick him off. Would be one for the purist as they say.

At their best Young was on a higher level than quarry. Quarry could not compete with the elite. The Young who beat Foreman, and fought Norton in the arguably the most underrated heavyweight fight of all time was way too good for Quarry.

Ambling Alp II wrote:At their best Young was on a higher level than quarry. Quarry could not compete with the elite. The Young who beat Foreman, and fought Norton in the arguably the most underrated heavyweight fight of all time was way too good for Quarry.

Interesting take.....I believe we are on the record as disagreeing about the "Norton vs Quarry" fight at their mutual peaks......You thinking Norton wins either way, I think Quarry beats him at their mutual best........sort of like he did in training. But your takes makes sense based on your assessments. Thanks Alp.

I'll tell you when Jerry Quarry was very confident of winning.

When everything went exactly perfect in training camp and nothing went wrong or sideways.. Like for the Spencer fight.. Quarry boxed well every day and felt 100% on top of it.. That happens in 10% of your camps -- most of the time something goes sideways or south to a certain degree.

If you beat Quarry one day he would come after you the next day. If you held him off and pasted him a few he would get into a foul mood and maybe he'd have a bad fight and maybe lose. Somebody like Ali didn't care if a sparring partner beat him every day for a week. You don't let your ego get involved. Ali would still most likely win the fight. There's a lot more intensity involved in a fight with everything is at stake. You're geared up like it's D-Day.

It wasn't just Quarry who didn't do his best every fight.. MOST fighters mess up.. Jimmy Young had great ability like he showed against Foreman. Most of the time the real Jimmy Young didn't show.. Young lost 3 of his next 4 fights after he beat Foreman.. NOBODY can tell me the Jimmy Young who whipped George Foreman couldn't beat a novice like Ossie Ocasio.. Jimmy was given 2 different opportunities to beat Ocasio because they couldn't believe he lost.. The Young fights earned Ocasio a Title Fight with Larry Holmes who fought close to his best every fight.. Holmes obliterated Ocasio like he was nothing.

It's not so much the physical ability that separates champions from contenders.. It's mental.. Consistency is something that's hard to grab onto.. I'll say Tim Witherspoon was another super talented guy. He was a real good fighter like he showed against Holmes when he had only 15 fight.. Everyone was amazed and thought TIm was the future.. But usually he didn't perform.. You could go down a list -- because Buster Douglas was another who hardly ever fought his best.

Kalan wrote:I'll tell you when Jerry Quarry was very confident of winning.

When everything went exactly perfect in training camp and nothing went wrong or sideways.. Like for the Spencer fight.. Quarry boxed well every day and felt 100% on top of it.. That happens in 10% of your camps -- most of the time something goes sideways or south to a certain degree.

If you beat Quarry one day he would come after you the next day. If you held him off and pasted him a few he would get into a foul mood and maybe he'd have a bad fight and maybe lose. Somebody like Ali didn't care if a sparring partner beat him every day for a week. You don't let your ego get involved. Ali would still most likely win the fight. There's a lot more intensity involved in a fight with everything is at stake. You're geared up like it's D-Day.

It wasn't just Quarry who didn't do his best every fight.. MOST fighters mess up.. Jimmy Young had great ability like he showed against Foreman. Most of the time the real Jimmy Young didn't show.. Young lost 3 of his next 4 fights after he beat Foreman.. NOBODY can tell me the Jimmy Young who whipped George Foreman couldn't beat a novice like Ossie Ocasio.. Jimmy was given 2 different opportunities to beat Ocasio because they couldn't believe he lost.. The Young fights earned Ocasio a Title Fight with Larry Holmes who fought close to his best every fight.. Holmes obliterated Ocasio like he was nothing.

It's not so much the physical ability that separates champions from contenders.. It's mental.. Consistency is something that's hard to grab onto.. I'll say Tim Witherspoon was another super talented guy. He was a real good fighter like he showed against Holmes when he had only 15 fight.. Everyone was amazed and thought TIm was the future.. But usually he didn't perform.. You could go down a list -- because Buster Douglas was another who hardly ever fought his best.

Now that's lucid. I agree.

I believed that Jimmy Young would outbox Jerry Quarry by a 15 round decision in a competitive fight by jabbing and countering more.

Right... It's Jimmy Ellis vs Jerry Quarry -- with a little more size advantage than Ellis had for Young.

Quarry was at his best against Patterson.

He only went downhill from there.

Young came from a bad drug section of Philly.

After his win over Foreman he succumbed to the drugs he was constantly offered.

If I am not mistaken Young was never knocked down-- after his fight [as a novice] against Shavers.

Sidney Carton wrote:Quarry was at his best against Patterson. He only went downhill from there.

No he wasn't.. Quarry was terrible against Patterson.. He was at his best in his next fight against Thad Spencer.. That was his peak career fight.

Spencer had just given Ernie Terrell a bad beating to advance against Quarry in the 8-man Heavyweight Championship Elimination Tournament won by Ellis.

Quarry beat Patterson (though he looked awful) in the 1st round... beat Spencer in the 2nd round... Then advanced to meet Ellis -- looking really bad again.

Another joke in the tournament was Karl Mildenberger... Based on his showing against Muhammad Ali, Karl was ranked the favorite -- something I LMAO at.

In the 1st round Mildenberger was taken to the cleaners by Oscar Bonavena... a short, light, club footed, clumsy, wide open swinger with 2 left feet.

Kalan wrote:Another joke in the tournament was Karl Mildenberger... Based on his showing against Muhammad Ali, Karl was ranked the favorite -- something I LMAO at.

In the 1st round Mildenberger was taken to the cleaners by Oscar Bonavena... a short, light, club footed, clumsy, wide open swinger with 2 left feet.

Yep a Fella that Frazier couldn't knock out, and found himself in trouble with, but Ali managed to Dispense with by KO.

The very same... He weighed 203 for Ali I believe... The little, short, stubby character had Ali going in the 9th with a big left hook. He was Tony Galento without the beer gut ... and almost as easy to hit as Buddy Baer -- but not quite.

Bonavena was shot to death trying to break into a whorehouse... It was never going to end well for him.

Ive got to laugh at some of Kalan's "facts" and question who this guy was on here before he started posting as "kalan."

Bonavena was shot trying to break into a whorehouse? No. He was murdered by one of Joe Conforte's henchmen in an ambush when Bonavena went to Conforte's brothel to confront him about a dispute they had over Conforte's wife and business related to Bonavena's career.

Spencer gave Terrell a bad beating? No. Go back and watch the fight, you obviously haven't to call it a beating. It was closer than the cards suggest because Terrell didn't get credit for a knock down and lost two rounds due to supposed low blows.

Calling Bonavena "a short, light, club footed, clumsy, wide open swinger with 2 left feet?" No. Awkward? Yes. But Bonavena was an extremely tough, incredibly strong fighter who used an awkward combination of swarming and deceptively effective counterpunching. He was a terrific talent. One of the best of the era, an era that most consider the greatest in HW history.

Mildenberger was a joke for the tournament? No. In reality Mildenberger had a far better record at HW than either Jimmy Ellis or Thad Spencer going into the tournament for starters. If Mildenberger was such a joke having lost only one fight in the past 8 years against damn good competition then what does that say about Ellis, Spencer, or even Leotis Martin, none of whom had a single worthwhile victory at HW upon entering the tournament?

Jimmy Young at his best, beats Quarry by wide decision and maybe, just maybe, over 15, finds a late stoppage (but probably not)

davie wrote:Jimmy Young at his best, beats Quarry by wide decision and maybe, just maybe, over 15, finds a late stoppage (but probably not)

Young might beat Quarry. Its an interesting matchup which I could see going several different ways. But Young wouldnt stop Quarry. That idea is laughable. Young never stopped a worldclass fighter in his life (unless you consider Richard Dunn, 11 of whose 12 losses came by knockout, world class). I wouldnt even pick Young to stop Quarry on cuts. My guess is the fight would be a boring chess match with both guys looking to counter. It would end in a close split or majority decision. I like the analogy to Ellis or even Machen both of whom managed to outpoint Quarry and both of whom liked to box from the outside. The problem with that analogy is that Quarry was green against Machen and injured against Ellis and more importantly imo both those guys could crack enough to keep Quarry honest. If the fight is a 15 rounder its even more of a dud because neither Young nor Quarry had great stamina. With both guys looking to counter early and fight fading late this fight has dud written all over it.

klompton wrote:Ive got to laugh at some of Kalan's "facts" and question who this guy was on here before he started posting as "kalan."

Bonavena was shot trying to break into a whorehouse? No. He was murdered by one of Joe Conforte's henchmen in an ambush when Bonavena went to Conforte's brothel to confront him about a dispute they had over Conforte's wife and business related to Bonavena's career.

Spencer gave Terrell a bad beating? No. Go back and watch the fight, you obviously haven't to call it a beating. It was closer than the cards suggest because Terrell didn't get credit for a knock down and lost two rounds due to supposed low blows.

Calling Bonavena "a short, light, club footed, clumsy, wide open swinger with 2 left feet?" No. Awkward? Yes. But Bonavena was an extremely tough, incredibly strong fighter who used an awkward combination of swarming and deceptively effective counterpunching. He was a terrific talent. One of the best of the era, an era that most consider the greatest in HW history.

Mildenberger was a joke for the tournament? No. In reality Mildenberger had a far better record at HW than either Jimmy Ellis or Thad Spencer going into the tournament for starters. If Mildenberger was such a joke having lost only one fight in the past 8 years against damn good competition then what does that say about Ellis, Spencer, or even Leotis Martin, none of whom had a single worthwhile victory at HW upon entering the tournament?

I have to laugh at your ignorance klompton.. I watched that tournament live and predicted the winner of all fights except the Patterson-Quarry rematch.. Spencer gave Terrell a good beating.. He had the skinny light hitter and chronic clincher running and flagging at the end of the fight..

Quarry fought his best fight against Spencer.. He dominated and stopped Thad and was very sharp in that fight.

Leotis Martin was much better than Karl Mildenberger and destroyed the wide open German.. Mildenberger beat nobody who had any skills. He was freakin' terrible. The clumsy punching bag Bonavena beat the pathetic Mildenberger easily and decked him 4 times...

Bonavena was easily outboxed by the smaller Jimmy Ellis---who fought most of his professional fights at Middleweight previous to his Bonavena bout.

Anybody who calls that era the greatest in Heavyweight history knows nothing.. A former Middleweight who was 25-5 won the Heavyweight Championship Tournament -- by prevailing over a group of 8 Heavyweights who couldn't get jobs as sparring partners for Anthony Joshua. Every single one of them would be obliterated quickly by AJ -- and likely none of them would even take the fight.. You SAW what 6'1" X 215 Liston did for Patterson.

Kalan wrote:

klompton wrote:Ive got to laugh at some of Kalan's "facts" and question who this guy was on here before he started posting as "kalan."

Bonavena was shot trying to break into a whorehouse? No. He was murdered by one of Joe Conforte's henchmen in an ambush when Bonavena went to Conforte's brothel to confront him about a dispute they had over Conforte's wife and business related to Bonavena's career.

Spencer gave Terrell a bad beating? No. Go back and watch the fight, you obviously haven't to call it a beating. It was closer than the cards suggest because Terrell didn't get credit for a knock down and lost two rounds due to supposed low blows.

Calling Bonavena "a short, light, club footed, clumsy, wide open swinger with 2 left feet?" No. Awkward? Yes. But Bonavena was an extremely tough, incredibly strong fighter who used an awkward combination of swarming and deceptively effective counterpunching. He was a terrific talent. One of the best of the era, an era that most consider the greatest in HW history.

Mildenberger was a joke for the tournament? No. In reality Mildenberger had a far better record at HW than either Jimmy Ellis or Thad Spencer going into the tournament for starters. If Mildenberger was such a joke having lost only one fight in the past 8 years against damn good competition then what does that say about Ellis, Spencer, or even Leotis Martin, none of whom had a single worthwhile victory at HW upon entering the tournament?

I have to laugh at your ignorance klompton.. I watched that tournament live and predicted the winner of all fights except the Patterson-Quarry rematch.. Spencer gave Terrell a good beating.. He had the skinny light hitter and chronic clincher running and flagging at the end of the fight..

Quarry fought his best fight against Spencer.. He dominated and stopped Thad and was very sharp in that fight.

Leotis Martin was much better than Karl Mildenberger and destroyed the wide open German.. Mildenberger beat nobody who had any skills. He was freakin' terrible. The clumsy punching bag Bonavena beat the pathetic Mildenberger easily and decked him 4 times...

Bonavena was easily outboxed by the smaller Jimmy Ellis---who fought most of his professional fights at Middleweight previous to his Bonavena bout.

Anybody who calls that era the greatest in Heavyweight history knows nothing.. A former Middleweight who was 25-5 won the Heavyweight Championship Tournament -- by prevailing over a group of 8 Heavyweights who couldn't get jobs as sparring partners for Anthony Joshua. Every single one of them would be obliterated quickly by AJ -- and likely none of them would even take the fight.. You SAW what 6'1" X 215 Liston did for Patterson.

I have to laugh at you Kalan, and I'll tell you why.

You will never reach the level of the eight competitors in the WBA heavyweight elimination tournament of the late 1960's. The reason for that is that you are a miserable athlete and no top trainer will work with you.

Flump wrote:I have to laugh at you Kalan, and I'll tell you why.

You will never reach the level of the eight competitors in the WBA heavyweight elimination tournament of the late 1960's. The reason for that is that you are a miserable athlete and no top trainer will work with you.

Don't take him too seriously. Everybody here knows he's a young kid who only knows what he can google and find on boxrec.

wouter, you're full of it and don't know WTF you're talking about.. I'm in my 70's but still in great physical condition and don't take any meds... I saw every one of the those 1960's Heavyweight Championship Tournament Fights live.. I knew some of those Heavyweights personally and boxed some of them.

What happens with every generation -- fans think the fighters from their generation are better than the current crop of Heavyweights, Middleweights and what have you.. It's generational bias.. Athletes get better and better generation by generation and you see that with Olympic records falling every 4 years like clock work.. World records sometimes fall twice in a year.. Female sprinters have faster World Records than Jesse Owens set.

Bonavena was a slow, stubby, wide open, club footed swinger who was short and small. He would be nowhere today... Mildenberger was a small, light, clumsy, soft chinned southpaw who would be destroyed quickly by Luis Ortiz.. Little Jimmy Ellis prevailed in that tournament even though he fought most of his career fights at 160 up to that point -- and that's because he was a better boxer than anyone else in the tournament by far.

People who aren't smart enough to get their heads around that simple to understand information??? There's little anyone can do to remedy that.

Kalan wrote:wouter, you're full of it and don't know WTF you're talking about.. I'm in my 70's but still in great physical condition and don't take any meds... I saw every one of the those 1960's Heavyweight Championship Tournament Fights live.. I knew some of those Heavyweights personally and boxed some of them.

What happens with every generation -- fans think the fighters from their generation are better than the current crop of Heavyweights, Middleweights and what have you.. It's generational bias.. Athletes get better and better generation by generation and you see that with Olympic records falling every 4 years like clock work.. World records sometimes fall twice in a year.. Female sprinters have faster World Records than Jesse Owens set.

Bonavena was a slow, stubby, wide open, club footed swinger who was short and small. He would be nowhere today... Mildenberger was a small, light, clumsy, soft chinned southpaw who would be destroyed quickly by Luis Ortiz.. Little Jimmy Ellis prevailed in that tournament even though he fought most of his career fights at 160 up to that point -- and that's because he was a better boxer than anyone else in the tournament by far.

People who aren't smart enough to get their heads around that simple to understand information??? There's little anyone can do to remedy that.

This is all untrue isn't it Kalan.

Kalan wrote:wouter, you're full of it and don't know WTF you're talking about.. I'm in my 70's but still in great physical condition and don't take any meds... I saw every one of the those 1960's Heavyweight Championship Tournament Fights live.. I knew some of those Heavyweights personally and boxed some of them.

What happens with every generation -- fans think the fighters from their generation are better than the current crop of Heavyweights, Middleweights and what have you.. It's generational bias.. Athletes get better and better generation by generation and you see that with Olympic records falling every 4 years like clock work.. World records sometimes fall twice in a year.. Female sprinters have faster World Records than Jesse Owens set.

Bonavena was a slow, stubby, wide open, club footed swinger who was short and small. He would be nowhere today... Mildenberger was a small, light, clumsy, soft chinned southpaw who would be destroyed quickly by Luis Ortiz.. Little Jimmy Ellis prevailed in that tournament even though he fought most of his career fights at 160 up to that point -- and that's because he was a better boxer than anyone else in the tournament by far.

People who aren't smart enough to get their heads around that simple to understand information??? There's little anyone can do to remedy that.

I actually feel sorry for Kalan.

Feel sorry for yourself over your ignorance.

Flump wrote:

Kalan wrote:wouter, you're full of it and don't know WTF you're talking about.. I'm in my 70's but still in great physical condition and don't take any meds... I saw every one of the those 1960's Heavyweight Championship Tournament Fights live.. I knew some of those Heavyweights personally and boxed some of them.

What happens with every generation -- fans think the fighters from their generation are better than the current crop of Heavyweights, Middleweights and what have you.. It's generational bias.. Athletes get better and better generation by generation and you see that with Olympic records falling every 4 years like clock work.. World records sometimes fall twice in a year.. Female sprinters have faster World Records than Jesse Owens set.

Bonavena was a slow, stubby, wide open, club footed swinger who was short and small. He would be nowhere today... Mildenberger was a small, light, clumsy, soft chinned southpaw who would be destroyed quickly by Luis Ortiz.. Little Jimmy Ellis prevailed in that tournament even though he fought most of his career fights at 160 up to that point -- and that's because he was a better boxer than anyone else in the tournament by far.

People who aren't smart enough to get their heads around that simple to understand information??? There's little anyone can do to remedy that.

This is all untrue isn't it Kalan.

You have a well chosen name. The sound of somebody falling through their rear end.

Flump wrote:

Kalan wrote:wouter, you're full of it and don't know WTF you're talking about.. I'm in my 70's but still in great physical condition and don't take any meds... I saw every one of the those 1960's Heavyweight Championship Tournament Fights live.. I knew some of those Heavyweights personally and boxed some of them.

What happens with every generation -- fans think the fighters from their generation are better than the current crop of Heavyweights, Middleweights and what have you.. It's generational bias.. Athletes get better and better generation by generation and you see that with Olympic records falling every 4 years like clock work.. World records sometimes fall twice in a year.. Female sprinters have faster World Records than Jesse Owens set.

Bonavena was a slow, stubby, wide open, club footed swinger who was short and small. He would be nowhere today... Mildenberger was a small, light, clumsy, soft chinned southpaw who would be destroyed quickly by Luis Ortiz.. Little Jimmy Ellis prevailed in that tournament even though he fought most of his career fights at 160 up to that point -- and that's because he was a better boxer than anyone else in the tournament by far.

People who aren't smart enough to get their heads around that simple to understand information??? There's little anyone can do to remedy that.

This is all untrue isn't it Kalan.

How dare you!! Kalan saw all of those fights at the very same movie theater where he witnessed the Zale-Graziano trilogy. Just ask his dad, he drove little Kalan around.