BoxRec

That was a lot to chew on! Thanks for posting this!

yes it is a lot to read but makes up for the last few years when I was not really able to do much

"The fight lasted one hour and 44 minutes in weather well over 100 degrees".

hey AlPerno did you catch that from this 1968 newsletter ?

The fight lasted 1 hour, 41 minutes, and 26 seconds... This "newsletter" also has the wrong weights for the combatants... reporting Johnson at 205.

It was a balmy spring day.. None of the newspaper stories about the fight made any mention of it being hot -- so the temperature was unremarkable..

The newspapers stories have Willard fighting like an amateur, in significant distress, and getting out-punched 10 to 1 through 20 rounds.. The newspaper reporters who were at ringside wrote that there certainly was not a KO punch and Johnson just decided to lay down.. And indeed there is no still photo or slo-mo that shows any so-called KO punch connecting.. After the fight Willard insisted it was an uppercut because he knew the right didn't land. The crowd was booing and cat-calling because for the last 5 rounds as the fighters did virtually nothing. There were cries of "DO SOMETHING" and "FAKE."

The newspapers reported that Johnson sent word to his wife before the 26th to leave the stadium... The newspaper stories of the fight report that Johnson looked dead at his wife's box seat just before he took the dive.. He wanted to make sure she was gone.. The film of the fight shows Johnson grabbing Willard physically and pulling him into a powerful clinch just before the finish.. Willard tried unsuccessfully to free himself as Johnson man handled him to get a good steady look at his wife's box.. She was gone.. He immediately moved back inviting a right hand.. Willard threw one at the midsection that was unsatisfactory.. Johnson invited another one and looked it all the way in.. It didn't connect and as the newspapers reported there was almost certainly no KO punch landed.. But Johnson did his rather gentle fall, with no head bounce, and shaded his eyes from the sun on the count.

The newsletter is basically "history according to Willard" where Dempsey's gloves got more and more loaded every time he talked about it. Dempsey was out outweighed by 58 pounds by a fatso who had one (1) so-called "fight" in the previous 4 years. Willard hated Boxing and was reluctant to defend the title.

Good read - forget 'over 100 degrees' - Jess himself had it 115. - That is the highest I have encountered so far - but you know, it was 1968; when old, things tend to be remember with a bit more intensely then they actually lived; I'm certain my old girlfriends aren't as pretty as I remember them to be.

So AlPerno in your research ,what did you discover was the earliest source that stated it was over 100 degrees for the Johnson vrs Willard fight ?

RIGHT!!! ... A more reliable source than lying ass Willard. If it were that hot all the stories would mention the heat -- as they did for Dempsey-Willard.

So your conclusion at some point is,that it was Jess Willard himself who started getting confused about the events
in Havana (Cuba) in 1915 and Toledo (Ohio) in 1919 ?
I wonder which year age that happened with him?

Kalan wrote:RIGHT!!! ... A more reliable source than lying ass Willard. If it were that hot all the stories would mention the heat -- as they did for Dempsey-Willard.

I have yet to see a detailed and annotated account listing of every newspaper story that was published either on the day of the fight or the day after.
I would especially like to see Spanish language newspaper accounts from Cuba or South America who had sent journalists over to cover it.
Also perhaps any French newspaper writers who were there and covered it of course.

Get busy on it... You have your work cut out for you... I'm sure you'll find the temperature was 80's or cooler... That's about what it looked like with all those people dressed in ties, vests, long pants, and dinner jackets like they were attending a formal dinner at the White House instead of a prize fight.

yeah AlPerno get busy on it.
It would be interesting to know how many newspapers in the USA and across the World had sent their own reporters
down to Cuba to cover it.
I certainly don't think that this fight recieved anywhere near the same media attention as the Johnson vrs Jeffries fight in Reno almost 5 years earlier tho.
BTW What was the estimation of the crowd attendence there ?Does it vary too ?
(not including the members of the Cuban Calvery that were also there in case things got out of hand .)

Interesting: BoxRec's page for the fight does not mention the temperature for that day, one of the few that does not pass the bogus story on . . . I can't read Spanish or French - so forget that - I think we have pretty much tapped out the Internet, need access to old newspapers and they are getting harder and harder to find.

This is also interesting: From the Sioux City Journal with what looks to be a reporter on the ground. Complete story, with a round by round description of the fight but yet NO mention of the temperature or even an anecdote about the heat. Nothing! -- April 6th news day, from April 5th in Havana: http://www.eugenecarsey.com/boxingnewsp ... sioux.html

Oh, by the way did anyone know that Willard could run the 100 in 11 seconds? An Olympian time (circa 1915) by a 230+ pound prize fighter, sure I believe that. -- Cites Willard as being only 230 lbs. -- BoxRec has Willard at 238 lbs.

Boxing News 24 makes no claims to the heat but does quote Johnson as it being "hotter than hell" -- also has Willard at 245 lbs. http://www.boxingnews24.com/2011/10/fam ... k-johnson/

Fight Saga has it as 100 degrees plus, officially. -- make no mention of either fighters weight. http://www.fightsaga.com/tidbits/item/2 ... troversies

Boxing.com - has it at 100+ as well; with Willard over 240 lbs. http://www.boxing.com/jack_johnsons_waterloo.html - what is really strange is that they claim it was both 'overcast' and yet still 100+ - so these guys have it hotter than hell but no direct sun. Go figure!

In Arty Allen's book, Jess Willard, Heavyweight Champion, he corrects a quote that has Willard at 247 back to 238. This guy did some homework. https://books.google.com/books?id=52EqD ... ht&f=false

But this is the most interesting yet -- also from Arty Allen's book, Jess Willard, Heavyweight Champion - a footnote:



All we need now is Allen's source The Havana Daily Post from April 6th 1915 - I think I'll send this clip to the above 'stupid' websites. - Kudos to BoxRec for not buying the bull-shit. - Maybe we can get them to re-evaluate their remarks on the Louis-Davis fight.

APerno wrote:
This is also interesting: From the Sioux City Journal with what looks to be a reporter on the ground. Complete story, with a round by round description of the fight but yet NO mention of the temperature or even an anecdote about the heat. Nothing! -- April 6th news day, from April 5th in Havana: http://www.eugenecarsey.com/boxingnewsp ... sioux.html

That newspaper article from the Sioux City Journal there,was actually a re-printing of the article that appeared in the New York Times.
the one you posted a link to a couple months ago in a thread here,but the link was removed due to heavy traffic.
I recognized the sentance "a cyclic right",when it was actually originally written in the NYT as a 'cyclonic right".
( could have been a type error when they re-typed it).

here is Bob Edgren's account as published in the April 6th 1915 edition of THE EVENING WORLD (re-printed in 1937).

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid= ... 0086&hl=en

Caractacus wrote:here is Bob Edgren's account as published in the April 6th 1915 edition of THE EVENING WORLD (re-printed in 1937).

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid= ... 0086&hl=en

Nice source - no mention of the bogus heat, but an interesting statement regarding Johnson's claim he was blocking the sun with his arm. Edgren saw a dazed Johnson, with eyes 'unblinking' as they gazed up at he tropical sun. Sounds like Johnson was 'out,' not tanking.

seems to me possibly at some point Jess Willard just got the facts of the two fights mixed up some over the years.
but both were out doors in the sun so that is understandable.
In the 1967 radio interview,he said that they had carried out 40 people
it was so hot that they keeled over.
Sounds more like the fight in Toledo Ohio.

At least they claim it was only one thermometer that read 120. - The press just wasn't very good at reporting facts.

How would you explain these discrepencies ?
It was obviously hotter at ringside for some reason.
The referee seems to have made it through all 26 rounds tho it seems,
unlike the ref in the Maxim-Robinson fight,but he may have moved around more during the fight.
Was it the moving-picture cameras ?
Reminds me of the Jeffries-Sharkey fight at Coney IIsland,
where it was so hot it singed the hair off of Jim J. jeffries head.

Caractacus wrote:Reminds me of the Jeffries-Sharkey fight at Coney IIsland,
where it was so hot it singed the hair off of Jim J. jeffries head.

I read that once too; wasn't that connected to the lights used for the cameras?

yeah,but it was the heat from the electric arc lamps that were only a few feet above the heads of Jeffries and Sharkey,
that caused them to have "scorched scalps and massive perspiration" at the pavillion at Coney Island.

why was was fight changed from Sunday to Monday anyway ?

hey Alperno,
Did you find out what the crowd attndence was to Johnson -Willard ?

Not sure if he has had a chance to check into it.
In the book, "The Legendary Champions", it was mentioned that there were 20,000 fans. That seemed to be a rough estimate.
Another poster, SteveO, posted several years ago that were 17,000.
The Sioux City Journal said it was difficult to say, but estimated it between 15,000-20000, with another 5000 watching far away on the hillside.