BoxRec

With joe joyce being fast-tracked. Do u think it is a good idea.

2. Let's play a game world title shot in 8 fights for : featherweight,lightweight,middleweight,heavyweight. build the road for the next big fighter

tim99b wrote:With joe joyce being fast-tracked. Do u think it is a good idea.

2. Let's play a game world title shot in 8 fights for : featherweight,lightweight,middleweight,heavyweight. build the road for the next big fighter

I remember watching him in the Olympics and thought he did everything well mate don't know if it will translate to the pro ranks, but yes idea is good but can easily backfire especially if the cardio isn't up to scratch !

It's about doing what is right for the fighter.

If a fighter is obviously too good for 3 x 4 rounders against Latvian journey men with massive losing records, then the slow progression some fighters start off with could hold them back, frustrate them and ultimitely waste month of their career learning nothing.

Some fighters, particularly young fighters or ones with limited amateur experience, will benefot from a period of time acclimatising to the pro ranks.
Some styles are also better suited to turning over.

But some guys can benefit from starting at a decent level and making rapid progress

Personally think fast trackings no the best idea. Does depend on the age tho. But even these wins against latvians etc theres still positives to take from them. Getting used to the crowd or the pro game etc. Gaining confidence etc. I think the bigger problem is keeping them at the same level for too long. A lot of british fighters rely on cheating the scales to get the upper hand. They stick at the same level too long tho...by the time their ready to face the top level a lot of the time...their fighting the scales. When they do move up because they relied on cheating the scales to get the strength/power advantage that gets nullified at the new weight.

Think the secret for any pro starting out is get out their regularly. Look at joshua. Pretty much perfect. Done his early fights quickly. Then got up fighting klitchko pretty quickly after a few fights that should have been tests but became apparent their wasnt much out there outside the top level to test him.

bbjc wrote:Personally think fast trackings no the best idea. Does depend on the age tho. But even these wins against latvians etc theres still positives to take from them. Getting used to the crowd or the pro game etc. Gaining confidence etc. I think the bigger problem is keeping them at the same level for too long. A lot of british fighters rely on cheating the scales to get the upper hand. They stick at the same level too long tho...by the time their ready to face the top level a lot of the time...their fighting the scales. When they do move up because they relied on cheating the scales to get the strength/power advantage that gets nullified at the new weight.

Think the secret for any pro starting out is get out their regularly. Look at joshua. Pretty much perfect. Done his early fights quickly. Then got up fighting klitchko pretty quickly after a few fights that should have been tests but became apparent their wasnt much out there outside the top level to test him.

this pretty much sums up the pros/cons perfectly only thing is the AJ template doesn't work for everyone if they don't have a big promoter and strong network backing them !

If a fighter is a proper, top tier, A* grade prospect (Lomachenko, Usyk, Inoue, Tanaka, Rigondeaux) then YES fast track them! Don't waste time with mismatches, push them and push them hard.

If they are a bit rough get them matched with tough opponents, but don't out and out fast track them. Get them bouts where they learn a lot every bout, and gain valuable ring time and experience. Let their flaws be seen and let their team work on them, get them in 6 and 8 rounders against testing opponents.

kbackup408 wrote:

bbjc wrote:Personally think fast trackings no the best idea. Does depend on the age tho. But even these wins against latvians etc theres still positives to take from them. Getting used to the crowd or the pro game etc. Gaining confidence etc. I think the bigger problem is keeping them at the same level for too long. A lot of british fighters rely on cheating the scales to get the upper hand. They stick at the same level too long tho...by the time their ready to face the top level a lot of the time...their fighting the scales. When they do move up because they relied on cheating the scales to get the strength/power advantage that gets nullified at the new weight.

Think the secret for any pro starting out is get out their regularly. Look at joshua. Pretty much perfect. Done his early fights quickly. Then got up fighting klitchko pretty quickly after a few fights that should have been tests but became apparent their wasnt much out there outside the top level to test him.

this pretty much sums up the pros/cons perfectly only thing is the AJ template doesn't work for everyone if they don't have a big promoter and strong network backing them !

Agree mate think the reality if thats the case tho is you need to just take what you can get without a big promoter/strong network backing you. Probably dont have the luxury of picking and choosing. I still think mike tysons template was the best...if your a top prospect anyway. Fighting regularly...against guys you should be beating comfortably. Until you get to a more testing level. Not a great believer in rushing guys tho...you dont need guys to be in tough fights early. Guys are fighting for 20 years nowadays.

Personally let guys enjoy their boxing early pleanty of time for more testing nights ahead. Boxing becomes less fun when your getting tested. You dont want to discourage a prospect too early. Let them build into it so when the tests do come...they ve got something to at least defend. Say 20 wins 0 losses. Records still important in boxing.

When you have someone like I do in Martin Ilunga and it's clear has the nose on your face he's capable of fighting world class opponents it's hard not to fast track them, in martins case because he's only boxed once in a year he will have a further 2-3 fights this year then move right on next year

billy nelson wrote:When you have someone like I do in Martin Ilunga and it's clear has the nose on your face he's capable of fighting world class opponents it's hard not to fast track them, in martins case because he's only boxed once in a year he will have a further 2-3 fights this year then move right on next year

take it he's one to watch then! any idea who he might be matched with in his next few fights?

Bigdogsnose wrote:

billy nelson wrote:When you have someone like I do in Martin Ilunga and it's clear has the nose on your face he's capable of fighting world class opponents it's hard not to fast track them, in martins case because he's only boxed once in a year he will have a further 2-3 fights this year then move right on next year

take it he's one to watch then! any idea who he might be matched with in his next few fights?

his next fight will be announced this week, he'd gladly fight Whyte or Chisora this year or early next no issue whatsoever

Bigdogsnose wrote:

billy nelson wrote:When you have someone like I do in Martin Ilunga and it's clear has the nose on your face he's capable of fighting world class opponents it's hard not to fast track them, in martins case because he's only boxed once in a year he will have a further 2-3 fights this year then move right on next year

take it he's one to watch then! any idea who he might be matched with in his next few fights?

his next fight will be announced this week, he'd gladly fight Whyte or Chisora this year or early next no issue whatsoever, no need to look around the world when there's a perfectly capable challenger on there doorstep, no need to kid on there struggling for opponents when there is one on there doorstep

billy nelson wrote:

Bigdogsnose wrote:

billy nelson wrote:When you have someone like I do in Martin Ilunga and it's clear has the nose on your face he's capable of fighting world class opponents it's hard not to fast track them, in martins case because he's only boxed once in a year he will have a further 2-3 fights this year then move right on next year

take it he's one to watch then! any idea who he might be matched with in his next few fights?

his next fight will be announced this week, he'd gladly fight Whyte or Chisora this year or early next no issue whatsoever, no need to look around the world when there's a perfectly capable challenger on there doorstep, no need to kid on there struggling for opponents when there is one on there doorstep

Hope it works out for him and couldn't agree more re whyte and chisora.

It's a tough one. When the figters is amazing like Loma and Rigo, then it's an easy decision to give em world title shots inside 5 fight cos they were always gonna win

Thank you

danconnollyeire wrote:It's a tough one. When the figters is amazing like Loma and Rigo, then it's an easy decision to give em world title shots inside 5 fight cos they were always gonna win

Orlando Solido begs to differ

As others have said, I think a lot depends on (a) the age of the fighter when they turn pro and (b) their amateur experience/ability/pedigree.

The obvious fighters who have been really fast-tracked recently are Lomachenko and Rigondeaux. With guys of that ability and experience it seems pointless holding them back. Both are not especially young, have huge ability and have seen so many styles in the amateur game that the transition to pro tends to be fairly seamless.

With other guys though the early match-making is utterly critical to development later on. It can completely make or break a fighter.

I'd rather have fast tracking than too many knockover jobs. But agree it's all down to individual fighters.

Some of it is clearly down to promoters milking a fighter and their fanbase at a comfortable level rather than risk losing it all by pushing too hard.

Why fast track in number of fights rather than just put them out often and fast track them in the same time but more fights? Move them through progressively tougher matches and have them out at least once per month.

Thinking Foreman with about 25 fights in his first year and a half (includes wins over Wepner, Boone Kirkman and Chuvalo. Mike Tyson with his 28 fight run in 18 months and even Ali and Lewis went with about 15 fights in the same timespan. Too much faffing and fcking around and they do not need to fight on big cards, or nextgen either, just put them out anywhere round the UK where they can learn and gather some momentum.

From a U.K. Point of view I would fast track Joyce due to age and Cordina due to talent.
Cordina won euros then seemed to go a bit stale. Was my favourite for a medal at Olympics. He will learn more and fight better increasing the level of opponent.

Selby was fast tracked but the aim is to get him moving up the weights. Can't see him still being at flyweight in 2 years.

PredatorHayds wrote:Selby was fast tracked but the aim is to get him moving up the weights. Can't see him still being at flyweight in 2 years.

Why is the aim for him to move through the weights?

Fighting too many journeymen leads to a loss of motivation, that leads to poorer performances, and then it's even harder to get any meaningful fights.

Horse wrote:

PredatorHayds wrote:Selby was fast tracked but the aim is to get him moving up the weights. Can't see him still being at flyweight in 2 years.

Why is the aim for him to move through the weights?

He's got the build to go up to BW or SB.

He's huge for the weight, don't think he can make it for much longer.

davie wrote:

danconnollyeire wrote:It's a tough one. When the figters is amazing like Loma and Rigo, then it's an easy decision to give em world title shots inside 5 fight cos they were always gonna win

Orlando Solido begs to differ

The fact the Saildo only won a SD on Loma's second pro fight proves my point

Grilling Machine wrote:Fighting too many journeymen leads to a loss of motivation, that leads to poorer performances, and then it's even harder to get any meaningful fights.

Yep and easier to let silly mistakes creep into your game when you're not being tested in a fight. Each fight should be a progression unless there has been a fitness/injury issue.

SteveDow wrote:As others have said, I think a lot depends on (a) the age of the fighter when they turn pro and (b) their amateur experience/ability/pedigree.

The obvious fighters who have been really fast-tracked recently are Lomachenko and Rigondeaux. With guys of that ability and experience it seems pointless holding them back. Both are not especially young, have huge ability and have seen so many styles in the amateur game that the transition to pro tends to be fairly seamless.

With other guys though the early match-making is utterly critical to development later on. It can completely make or break a fighter.

Other obvious, younger, examples include Ioka, Inoue and Tanaka. All turned Pro young, don't think any of them had over 110 amateur fights, and are mutli weight champions (Ioka holds the record for fewest fights to become a unified champion I think, and the fewest to become a 3 weight champion, Inoue and Tanaka did 2 weights in 1 fight more than Lomachenko). Ken Shiro and Diago Higa are two more, and Higa had very limited amateur experience.

If you're good enough to be fast tracked you might as well have more top earning years