BoxRec

Been overlooking this with the two super series kicking off, 3G v GingerHead, etc. While Hart has essentially fought no one, he is tall, long, has good footwork / movement, quickness, pop, and toughness. Ramirez is a tough, skilled grinder.

This appears to be a more interesting fight than any of the SMW Super Series first round matchups. In fact, I would have preferred Ramirez, Hart and Benavidez be included in the super series. SMW does not have as good of a lineup as Cruiser.

Ramirez v Hart could end up a FOTY candidate, imo.

Hart is boring. I've not been excited to see him fight ever. It's a great fight though, and you are right that it's a better matchup than anything we're seeing at the moment in the tournament.

Tanzio wrote:Been overlooking this with the two super series kicking off, 3G v GingerHead, etc. While Hart has essentially fought no one, he is tall, long, has good footwork / movement, quickness, pop, and toughness. Ramirez is a tough, skilled grinder.

This appears to be a more interesting fight than any of the SMW Super Series first round matchups. In fact, I would have preferred Ramirez, Hart and Benavidez be included in the super series. SMW does not have as good of a lineup as Cruiser.

Ramirez v Hart could end up a FOTY candidate, imo.

Great point. Logic says Ramirez, Hart & Benavidez should be in the WBSS but that tourney is conspicuously Eurocentic!!

That's not a huge drawback at Cruiser, since Euros are strong at 200# but the WBSS tourney is essentially mediocre at 168 without the 3 you mention:
http://fightnews.com/wbss-new-measures- ... draws/4195

With just five days to go, there are still no networks carrying the 14 match tournament in the USA. Part of the problem is 1) a shortage of American participants, and 2) with most the fights taking place in Europe, networks don’t care for the afternoon start times Stateside.

Not surprising that Sauerland couldnt care less about North American fighters or the US viewing audience.

Hart hasn't really done enough to stand out on his own as a glaring omission from the tournament (best win arguably over Andy Hernandez. went life and death with Dashon Johnson), though the tournament would be significantly stronger if him, Benavidez, and Ramirez were in rather than, say, Cox, Skoglund, and Braehmer.

crusader wrote:Hart hasn't really done enough to stand out on his own as a glaring omission from the tournament, though the tournament would be significantly stronger if him, Benavidez, and Ramirez were in rather than Cox, Skoglund, and Braehmer.

Hart's credentials are at least as strong as token American Brant, Cox, Skoglund or Smith. Braehmer is past his peak, so the only ones who could be considered "glaring omissions" if they were excluded are Groves, Eubank and Yildirim (whose resume is very solid). Even Eubank had to fight his way in vs Abraham.

Wouldnt be surprised if crooked Sutherland arranges for his house fighter Braehmer to receive a gift decision over token American Rob Brant.

I don't think Hart's credentials are as strong as Smith's. Smith has never been dropped and gone life and death with a guy on Dashon Johnson's level, and dominant victories over Rebrasse, Sjekloca, Fielding, and Mohoumadi outweigh Hart's 4 best wins IMO.On resume, Hart is around the same level as Skoglund....

The lone American Brant does seem like a bit of an odd choice though, as he's been at middleweight and never really stood out as being particularly impressive. That said, I still favour him over a faded Braehmer...

crusader wrote:I don't think Hart's credentials are as strong as Smith's. Smith has never been dropped and gone life and death with a guy on Dashon Johnson's level, and dominant victories over Rebrasse, Sjekloca, Fielding, and Mohoumadi outweigh Hart's 4 best wins IMO.On resume, Hart is around the same level as Skoglund....

The lone American Brant does seem like a bit of an odd choice though, as he's been at middleweight and never really stood out as being particularly impressive.

I agree.

Hart would have been a good number 8, imo, which would have been a great 1st round match with Ramirez. Benavidez should have definitely been in the 5 to 7 seed.

Whatever. Ramirez v Hart is a damned good fight. Ramirez will be facing a different style than I think that he has faced up to now, and Hart is taking a giant leap forward with this fight.

Looking forward to it.

crusader wrote:I don't think Hart's credentials are as strong as Smith's. Smith has never been dropped and gone life and death with a guy on Dashon Johnson's level, and dominant victories over Rebrasse, Sjekloca, Fielding, and Mohoumadi outweigh Hart's 4 best wins IMO.On resume, Hart is around the same level as Skoglund....

The lone American Brant does seem like a bit of an odd choice though, as he's been at middleweight and never really stood out as being particularly impressive. That said, I still favour him over a faded Braehmer...

Dont be surprised if token Yank Brant loses a "controversial" decision to Sauerland house fighter Braehmer. In the 1990s and early 2000s Sauerland was one of the promoters (along with Universum/Kohl) that helped give German boxing a reputation for soft challengers and controversial decisions.

As far as credentials, Jamie Cox may have the weakest resume of any of them, but with 4 Brits out of 8 super middle contestants, its pretty clear Sauerland is going for the British TV audience.

Best Coast wrote:

crusader wrote:I don't think Hart's credentials are as strong as Smith's. Smith has never been dropped and gone life and death with a guy on Dashon Johnson's level, and dominant victories over Rebrasse, Sjekloca, Fielding, and Mohoumadi outweigh Hart's 4 best wins IMO.On resume, Hart is around the same level as Skoglund....

The lone American Brant does seem like a bit of an odd choice though, as he's been at middleweight and never really stood out as being particularly impressive. That said, I still favour him over a faded Braehmer...

Dont be surprised if token Yank Brant loses a "controversial" decision to Sauerland house fighter Braehmer. In the 1990s and early 2000s Sauerland was one of the promoters (along with Universum/Kohl) that helped give German boxing a reputation for soft challengers and controversial decisions.

As far as credentials, Jamie Cox may have the weakest resume of any of them, but with 4 Brits out of 8 super middle contestants, its pretty clear Sauerland is going for the British TV audience.

It appears that they consider the USA audience not consequential enough to bother with. Ramirez and Benavidez should have been in this tournament. If they defeat their scheduled opponents and meet, the winner is the class of 168, imo.

Depends what happens with the tournament. I dont think a Ramirez-Benavidez winner is necessarily 'the man' if, for example, Groves beats Eubank and Smith in the semis/the final. They'd be right up there though....

Sorry, but no way would I want to miss Groves Vs Cox by putting Hart in there in place of Cox

Hart would have been "ok" in the WBSS but it is what it is. I'm sure he had the option of going in it. Groves, Smith, Spewank, Cox, Skoglund.. I'm happy

Tanzio wrote:

Best Coast wrote:

crusader wrote:I don't think Hart's credentials are as strong as Smith's. Smith has never been dropped and gone life and death with a guy on Dashon Johnson's level, and dominant victories over Rebrasse, Sjekloca, Fielding, and Mohoumadi outweigh Hart's 4 best wins IMO.On resume, Hart is around the same level as Skoglund....

The lone American Brant does seem like a bit of an odd choice though, as he's been at middleweight and never really stood out as being particularly impressive. That said, I still favour him over a faded Braehmer...

Dont be surprised if token Yank Brant loses a "controversial" decision to Sauerland house fighter Braehmer. In the 1990s and early 2000s Sauerland was one of the promoters (along with Universum/Kohl) that helped give German boxing a reputation for soft challengers and controversial decisions.

As far as credentials, Jamie Cox may have the weakest resume of any of them, but with 4 Brits out of 8 super middle contestants, its pretty clear Sauerland is going for the British TV audience.

It appears that they consider the USA audience not consequential enough to bother with. Ramirez and Benavidez should have been in this tournament. If they defeat their scheduled opponents and meet, the winner is the class of 168, imo.

Absolutely agree. Either Ramirez or Benavidez should rule the roost at super middle regardless of the WSBB outcome. Sauerland has always been limited by his provincialism and Schaefer is still embittered by his falling out with Golden Boy.

At Cruiserweight the WBSS will live up to its name, but with a paucity of North American fighters at 168 they would be more accurately called EBSS > EUROPEAN Boxing Super Series.

What puts those two above everyone else? Eubank beat up Abraham just as thoroughly as Ramirez did, and Benvidez's two best wins are over Denis Douglin and Porky Medina. James Degale is also still at 168.

The tournament doesn't have all the big names, but if it goes ahead as planned the winner will probably have as strong a claim to the top spot as any; there will need to be more fights after the tournament to sort it out.

crusader wrote:What puts those two above everyone else? Eubank beat up Abraham just as thoroughly as Ramirez did, and Benvidez's two best wins are over Denis Douglin and Porky Medina. James Degale is also still at 168.

The tournament doesn't have all the big names, but if it goes ahead as planned the winner will probably have as strong a claim to the top spot as any; there will need to be more fights after the tournament to sort it out.

For sure the winner of WBSS Cruiser is #1
But the winner of the SMW may not definitively be #1 but would you agree they would end up with probably the best resume in that division?

crusader wrote:What puts those two above everyone else? Eubank beat up Abraham just as thoroughly as Ramirez did, and Benvidez's two best wins are over Denis Douglin and Porky Medina. James Degale is also still at 168.

The tournament doesn't have all the big names, but if it goes ahead as planned the winner will probably have as strong a claim to the top spot as any; there will need to be more fights after the tournament to sort it out.

Ramirez should have been number one seed in this alleged super series. If he were to defeat Hart and Benavidez in succession he would continue to be the man to beat in the division, imo. If Benavidez or Hart came through that three man tourney, I would have them on par with the winner of the super series.

The idea that Hart and Benavidez could not have seamlessly been included at 7 and 8 with Ramirez at one is laughable.

Ramirez isn't the clear man to beat as it stands, and his best SMW win was matched by Eubank. If Groves were to beat Eubank and Smith, I wouldn't rate that any lower than beating Hart and Benavidez. Then there's Degale...so I don't believe that a Hart-Ramirez-Benavidez series would be inclusive enough to determine a clear #1, though they'd obviously be pushing for the top spot.

No doubt those last four would've made the tournament more interesting

crusader wrote:Ramirez isn't the clear man to beat as it stands, and his best SMW win was matched by Eubank. If Groves were to beat Eubank and Smith, I wouldn't rate that any lower than beating Hart and Benavidez. Then there's Degale...so I don't believe that a Hart-Ramirez-Benavidez series would be inclusive enough to determine a clear #1, though they'd obviously be pushing for the top spot.

No doubt those last four would've made the tournament more interesting

Completely agree with you on DeGale, but I thought that he was left off due to injury? Ramirez, Benavidez, and Hart are all fighting in the next couple of weeks.

I am still fired up about the SS though. Guaranteed five interesting fights.

crusader wrote:What puts those two above everyone else? Eubank beat up Abraham just as thoroughly as Ramirez did, and Benvidez's two best wins are over Denis Douglin and Porky Medina. James Degale is also still at 168.

The tournament doesn't have all the big names, but if it goes ahead as planned the winner will probably have as strong a claim to the top spot as any; there will need to be more fights after the tournament to sort it out.

The WBSS Cruiser tourney is clearly more GLOBAL than the SM tourney in its scope (if for no other reason than Europe being the epicenter of the top 200-pounders).

The provincial nature of the WBSS Super Middle tourney is further highlighted by the fact that it falls so far short of the ORIGINAL tournament of this nature, the Super Six World Boxing Classic, which set the bar very high because it was an intercontinental collaboration between Showtime (US) and Sauerland (Germany). The WBSS is a Euro-based collaboration between Sauerland and Richard Schaefer (Swiss) so it's no surprise that it's top-heavy with European fighters.

But the WBSS Cruiser competition will come much closer to meeting the high global standard set by the Super Six of 2011 and wont need to "sort itself out" like the WBSS 168-pound tourney will.

Hart is a bit Julian Williams-ish for me. Has looked very good against journeyman types but is now seeing the top of the food chain. Let's see how he eats.

diddy wrote:Hart is a bit Julian Williams-ish for me. Has looked very good against journeyman types but is now seeing the top of the food chain. Let's see how he eats.

Much like Erickson Lubin challenging Charlo, Hart hasnt really been tested yet, so his current ceiling is a big question mark.

Best Coast wrote:

diddy wrote:Hart is a bit Julian Williams-ish for me. Has looked very good against journeyman types but is now seeing the top of the food chain. Let's see how he eats.

Much like Erickson Lubin challenging Charlo, Hart hasnt really been tested yet, so his current ceiling is a big question mark.

Lubin looks far more the goods than Hart does. Though Charlotte is probably better than Ramirez too. We'll see.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Best Coast wrote:

diddy wrote:Hart is a bit Julian Williams-ish for me. Has looked very good against journeyman types but is now seeing the top of the food chain. Let's see how he eats.

Much like Erickson Lubin challenging Charlo, Hart hasnt really been tested yet, so his current ceiling is a big question mark.

Lubin looks far more the goods than Hart does. Though Charlotte is probably better than Ramirez too. We'll see.

I dont think Hart has reached Lubin's level yet, but IMO he is better than Julian Williams and I dont see either Hart or Lubin getting KOed like Williams did

It's really great to see so many good UNDEFEATED fighters facing each other these days...the proverbial "someone's 0 has got to go" matchups!!