BoxRec

It seems I'm the only one completely unimpressed with this guy. Why am I wrong? He was lighting up Rubio and gassed, I get the pass on that. What is the reasoning behind ignoring the draw with a shot Alcine? He's the most overrated puncher since Vitali and has rudimentary skills. I don't get it. Educate me.

He lost to Alcine.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:It seems I'm the only one completely unimpressed with this guy. Why am I wrong? He was lighting up Rubio and gassed, I get the pass on that. What is the reasoning behind ignoring the draw with a shot Alcine? He's the most overrated puncher since Vitali and has rudimentary skills. I don't get it. Educate me.

What, you never noticed white guys who throw hooks get overrated?

Counter-puncher wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:It seems I'm the only one completely unimpressed with this guy. Why am I wrong? He was lighting up Rubio and gassed, I get the pass on that. What is the reasoning behind ignoring the draw with a shot Alcine? He's the most overrated puncher since Vitali and has rudimentary skills. I don't get it. Educate me.

What, you never noticed white guys who throw hooks get overrated?

Tommy Morrison is p4p compared to this guy.

yes hes very limited, but why is his power so overrated? you can go back years to alcine fight but hes scored good kos since. very few actually knock opponent unconscious like he did stevens. very few stop every opponent. if ppl say hes julian jackson level then yes hes got overrated power. but its still among best in world in the division. ndam is way better boxer than faded alcine and lemieux clearly beat him. brian rose stopped alcine but obviosly isnt nearly as good a puncher as lemieux.

thinks he at prime now and was before prime when lost. think hes similar level to saunders.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:It seems I'm the only one completely unimpressed with this guy. Why am I wrong? He was lighting up Rubio and gassed, I get the pass on that. What is the reasoning behind ignoring the draw with a shot Alcine? He's the most overrated puncher since Vitali and has rudimentary skills. I don't get it. Educate me.

What, you never noticed white guys who throw hooks get overrated?

Tommy Morrison is p4p compared to this guy.

Hatton and Gatti and probably even Cooney too, but you take my point

his results seem similar to quillin. look at common opponents and very close results. think hes on quillin/saunders level. clearly below canelo, ggg, jacobs.

jamamb wrote:yes hes very limited, but why is his power so overrated? you can go back years to alcine fight but hes scored good kos since. very few actually knock opponent unconscious like he did stevens. very few stop every opponent. if ppl say hes julian jackson level then yes hes got overrated power. but its still among best in world in the division. ndam is way better boxer than faded alcine and lemieux clearly beat him. brian rose stopped alcine but obviosly isnt nearly as good a puncher as lemieux.

thinks he at prime now and was before prime when lost. think hes similar level to saunders.

He didn't knock out the last guy I've never heard of. The instinctive reaction to the term overrated is that it means suck. He can punch, but he's not a one shot puncher, he hit Stevens with 50 bombs.I'm disappointed Cotto isn't likely to fight him, that would have been easy money.

Counter-puncher wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:
What, you never noticed white guys who throw hooks get overrated?

Tommy Morrison is p4p compared to this guy.

Hatton and Gatti and probably even Cooney too, but you take my point

I think Cooney is a step too far.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: Tommy Morrison is p4p compared to this guy.

Hatton and Gatti and probably even Cooney too, but you take my point

I think Cooney is a step too far.

Heh

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:It seems I'm the only one completely unimpressed with this guy. Why am I wrong? He was lighting up Rubio and gassed, I get the pass on that. What is the reasoning behind ignoring the draw with a shot Alcine? He's the most overrated puncher since Vitali and has rudimentary skills. I don't get it. Educate me.

I agree with almost everything you've said, but I personally wouldn't have articulated my opinion as harshly as you did.

Counter-puncher wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:
Hatton and Gatti and probably even Cooney too, but you take my point

I think Cooney is a step too far.

Heh

Is anyone more overrated for being called underrated on forums than Cooney? The 'skills' and somehow turning the beatdown from Holmes into a close fight have always mystified me. Weaver would have flattened him.

As you say I was being mischievous in suggesting Cooney. Which just backs up my theory of white guys throwing hooks getting overrated

he knocked stevens cold in 3rd round with 1 left hook. am i missing something. if thats 50 bombs what was ggg stopping stevens on retirement in 8.

Counter-puncher wrote:As you say I was being mischievous in suggesting Cooney. Which just backs up my theory of white guys throwing hooks getting overrated

I fornicating hate Cooney.

I like his style. He's not the most gifted boxer. I would like to see him against some goof names. His KO of Stevens was great..

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:As you say I was being mischievous in suggesting Cooney. Which just backs up my theory of white guys throwing hooks getting overrated

I effing hate Cooney.

I know

Counter-puncher wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:As you say I was being mischievous in suggesting Cooney. Which just backs up my theory of white guys throwing hooks getting overrated

I effing hate Cooney.

I know

He might be in my top 5. Leonard is the clear #1. Chavez, Cooney, Andre Dirrell & Ward are the only other fighters, off the top of my head, that I never wanted to win a single fight. And I had money on Dirrell against Abraham and Ward against Kessler, so I guess he doesn't count.

Lemieux's a fun contender type with some bang. In a better Middleweight division he wouldn't even be the contender that he is, but he's fun to watch at least.

I don't see him beating Jacobs, Canelo, Jermall Charlo or any of the other names at Middleweight. Hell there's lots of guys that aren't exactly at the front of Boxing fans minds yet that I'd favor to beat him as well.

the best fighter id give him good chance against is saunders, though saunders still favourite. he cant beat ggg, jacobs, canelo etc. but guys like saunders, ndam, lee, khurtisidze, etc. i think hes capable of that. if he fought all id guess at least 2 wins. so, second-tier top guy i guess.

jamamb wrote:he knocked stevens cold in 3rd round with 1 left hook. am i missing something. if thats 50 bombs what was ggg stopping stevens on retirement in 8.

You definitely missed something if you didn't see him tattoo Stevens over and over in that fight. There has never been a knockout that wasn't from one punch, accumulation matters.

that fight was still very early. stevens took loads from ggg but didnt get knocked cold. your applying standards to lemieux that can knock pretty much anyones rep as puncher. even 250 pound beast like aj had to absolutely unload of guy like whyte. and that was 7 rounds and whyte wasnt put unconscious. who are boxings best punchers now to you? particularly who are the best around lemieux size.

jamamb wrote:that fight was still very early. stevens took loads from ggg but didnt get knocked cold. your applying standards to lemieux that can knock pretty much anyones rep as puncher. even 250 pound beast like aj had to absolutely unload of guy like whyte. and that was 7 rounds and whyte wasnt put unconscious. who are boxings best punchers now to you? particularly who are the best around lemieux size.

I don't think Lemieux is a bigger puncher than Jermall Charlo. Again, overrated doesn't mean he can't swat. He's just not a one punch guy. Taking loads from GGG surely couldn't affect someones ability to absord punishment later, right?

lets use your standards. charlo couldnt stop a clubfighter not long ago. didnt hurt trout. taken distance by multiple no namers. at 154 too.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

jamamb wrote:that fight was still very early. stevens took loads from ggg but didnt get knocked cold. your applying standards to lemieux that can knock pretty much anyones rep as puncher. even 250 pound beast like aj had to absolutely unload of guy like whyte. and that was 7 rounds and whyte wasnt put unconscious. who are boxings best punchers now to you? particularly who are the best around lemieux size.

I don't think Lemieux is a bigger puncher than Jermall Charlo. Again, overrated doesn't mean he can't swat. He's just not a one punch guy. Taking loads from GGG surely couldn't affect someones ability to absord punishment later, right?

I think he's definitely a bigger puncher than Jermall Charlo one punch at a time, but it wouldn't matter because Charlo is a significantly better boxer, and would be able to avoid most all of Lemieux's wide shots until he either gassed him out or possibly just countered him, and took him out early.

I definitely would pick Charlo to win that in one sided fashion.