BoxRec

But 12 days later there was Robinson-LaMotta I at the Garden; he must have been feeling better (saw the better payday) - he caught up with George Martin at the Boston Garden two years later (TKO 7).

I have heard before that he pulled out of some fights because he didn't feel 100%. Of course when you fight that often, you aren't going to be 100% all of the time.

The problem with that is the fans showed up... The opponent showed up... "Okay, we got a full house. Now where's Robinson??"

You're going to get a cold.. You don't cancel a fight over a cold.. That's like canceling a fight cuz you stubbed your toe.

He also canceled a fight with Georgie Small. He learned one of Small's opponents died from injuries sustained in the fight and he called it off.

Kalan wrote:The problem with that is the fans showed up... The opponent showed up... "Okay, we got a full house. Now where's Robinson??"

You're going to get a cold.. You don't cancel a fight over a cold.. That's like canceling a fight cuz you stubbed your toe.

He also canceled a fight with Georgie Small. He learned one of Small's opponents died from injuries sustained in the fight and he called it off.

I don't see why he would be afraid of Small - Small had only three fights over (his last) three years and dropped them all; a month after the postponement Small was stopped in four rounds. The ring death had occurred five years earlier; but who really knows what SRR was thinking.

Robinson was a freak. He didn't give a crap what anyone thought of his actions because he was the famed and esteemed Sugar Ray Robinson.

Carmen Basilio walked up to introduce himself to Robinson and SRR turned around and started walking the other way. Basilio thought Robinson had forgotten something and turned on the spur of the moment, so he ran after him and tried again. "Hey Mr Robinson, I'm Carmen Basilio. I wanted to meet you." Robinson shook his hand quickly and said "hey my man" without looking at him and turned away again like Basilio was dirt he didn't want to be seen talking to. He was doing poorly in his Boxing career to that point, but right there Basilio vowed he would get better and some day beat Robinson.

You got me to look up Carmen Basilio - from the start of his career in '48 all the way to Billy Graham ('52) he was not very good at all - lost to almost every fighter with a winning record (just a few exceptions) and beat only weak opponents - then after Graham there is this explosion; as if he became a completely different fighter. The run-up to SRR has him losing only to Kid Gaviln (SD) and Johnny Saxton (the Saxton defeat he avenges twice.) - He was just a 'ham and egger'' who in mid-career turned himself into a champion.

IMO, 'freak' is probably not the correct word, but every performer has a professional obligation to the audience/fan who pays his meal ticket (makes him rich). He is obliged to give a shite. -- Dempsey wasn't in good health in '26 and was offered an out but refused; Robinson seems to have gotten too many colds. - You are correct, great enough to get away with just about anything but that doesn't mean he should.

golden oldie wrote:

Kalan wrote:Robinson was a freak. He didn't give a crap what anyone thought of his actions because he was the famed and esteemed Sugar Ray Robinson.

Has it even dawned on you that here was a Black guy fighting in the 40's and 50's of racist America, who ( probably grudgingly ) was acknowledged as the greatest fighter on the planet at the time?

Perhaps that is why he was famed and esteemed, and perhaps also why he didn't give a shite about what people thought of his actions.

Robinson did GAF about his image. He would have his hair straightened religiously and his Cadillacs painted "flamingo" as he called the pink color he liked. He was very particular about how his trunks fit and his shoes were tied and looped. He wanted his clothes to fit just right so he would look classy. He never beat anyone who was a masterful boxer... SRR was a good fighter, but his record was built on very fluffy opponents -- mostly 3rd rate swingers. In actual World Title Fights, his record wasn't the most outstanding out there. For instance 3-3 in Middleweight Title Defenses.

As far as people begrudging his success. They DIDNT for he most part. There are certain people who most people like whether they're black or white. George Foreman, Donald Glover, Ryan Renynolds, Taylor Swift, Chris Pratt, Beyonce. If those folks DIDN'T appeal to the general public they wouldn't be who they are. Although extremely popular actor Dwayne Johnson remarked "No matter how lovable you make yourself, at least 25% of the people are going to hate you for the reasons everybody else likes you -- and they're going to love the dicks most everybody else hates." Robinson was one of those individuals who transcended race. Most everybody was impressed with the image he presented and instantly liked him regardless of their race.

Getting beyond a celebrity's public image there's the private person with all his faults and warts that aren't exposed to the public. Who is the real person behind the carefully crafted public image designed to enhance their appeal??? With Robinson it wasn't always very pretty -- and he played the VIP card. That allowed him to get away with things that would draw a long coordinated license suspension for some boxers

It's like Sonny Liston's license to box was revoked nationwide for years... For what??? ... For supposedly faking a knockdown where he got up without a referee's count and resumed fighting. Why didn't he get a count from the referee??? Because his opponent was standing over him or running around the ring instead of going to a neutral corner -- and the referee was trying to deal with that situation instead of giving Liston a count. Why wasn't the count suspended??? Because neither the timekeeper, the referee, nor the commissioners present were conversant with the rule.

So are you going to blame -- Nat Fleischer, the timekeeper, Ali, Walcott, the commissioners or Sonny Liston??? An easy choice for the commission.

golden oldie wrote:

APerno wrote:IMO, 'freak' is probably not the correct word, but every performer has a professional obligation to the audience/fan who pays his meal ticket (makes him rich). He is obliged to give a shite. -- Dempsey wasn't in good health in '26 and was offered an out but refused; Robinson seems to have gotten too many colds. - You are correct, great enough to get away with just about anything but that doesn't mean he should.

My point Al is that the majority of top " performers " will only perform at their best. So when you think that Robinson only lost once in 132 fights, and that to a guy more than a stone heavier than him, ( which he avenged 4 times ) there is a strong chance that he alone decided when he was in the best shape, and did indeed give the paying customers the best value for money he could.

Could be.

Even at the beginning of the game, among the fight community, black fighters (who did not win the HW championship of the world ) were generally accepted by white fight fans. At The Carnival of Champions (New Orleans 1892; Sullivan-Corbett) George Dixon KOed a white Jack Skelly in eight rounds and the white audience went wild with support for "Little Chocolate." - My point being . . .

lightweight black fighters didn't suffer the same level of prejudice accorded black heavyweights (who, for obvious reasons were a great threat to white supremacy) and then when the public accepted Joe Louis as HW Champ, I wonder if there was any serious prejudice (career derailing prejudice) left to damage the career of the black fighters of the '40s and '50s - We have in the past talked about Charles Burley's inability to get a title shot, but (I think) we all realized that it was Burley' 'difficult to fight' style and poor management that were more damaging to his career than was his race.

I wonder if race was ever actually an issue regarding SRR?

Kalan wrote:

golden oldie wrote:

Kalan wrote:Robinson was a freak. He didn't give a crap what anyone thought of his actions because he was the famed and esteemed Sugar Ray Robinson.

Has it even dawned on you that here was a Black guy fighting in the 40's and 50's of racist America, who ( probably grudgingly ) was acknowledged as the greatest fighter on the planet at the time?

Perhaps that is why he was famed and esteemed, and perhaps also why he didn't give a shite about what people thought of his actions.

Robinson did GAF about his image. He would have his hair straightened religiously and his Cadillacs painted "flamingo" as he called the pink color he liked. He was very particular about how his trunks fit and his shoes were tied and looped. He wanted his clothes to fit just right so he would look classy. He never beat anyone who was a masterful boxer... SRR was a good fighter, but his record was built on very fluffy opponents -- mostly 3rd rate swingers. In actual World Title Fights, his record wasn't the most outstanding out there. For instance 3-3 in Middleweight Title Defenses.

As far as people begrudging his success. They DIDNT for he most part. There are certain people who most people like whether they're black or white. George Foreman, Donald Glover, Ryan Renynolds, Taylor Swift, Chris Pratt, Beyonce. If those folks DIDN'T appeal to the general public they wouldn't be who they are. Although extremely popular actor Dwayne Johnson remarked "No matter how lovable you make yourself, at least 25% of the people are going to hate you for the reasons everybody else likes you -- and they're going to love the dicks most everybody else hates." Robinson was one of those individuals who transcended race. Most everybody was impressed with the image he presented and instantly liked him regardless of their race.

Getting beyond a celebrity's public image there's the private person with all his faults and warts that aren't exposed to the public. Who is the real person behind the carefully crafted public image designed to enhance their appeal??? With Robinson it wasn't always very pretty -- and he played the VIP card. That allowed him to get away with things that would draw a long coordinated license suspension for some boxers

It's like Sonny Liston's license to box was revoked nationwide for years... For what??? ... For supposedly faking a knockdown where he got up without a referee's count and resumed fighting. Why didn't he get a count from the referee??? Because his opponent was standing over him or running around the ring instead of going to a neutral corner -- and the referee was trying to deal with that situation instead of giving Liston a count. Why wasn't the count suspended??? Because neither the timekeeper, the referee, nor the commissioners present were conversant with the rule.

So are you going to blame -- Nat Fleischer, the timekeeper, Ali, Walcott, the commissioners or Sonny Liston??? An easy choice for the commission.

I liked a much lighter, shiner pink for a Cadillac. Not exactly this, but a light fuscia.

I liked the 1960 model caddies. the 2018’s too. Crushed velvet seats... riding in the back with a beautiful babe... oozing down Hollywood Boulevard… waving to the girls… feeling out of sight… spending tons of money on a Saturday night... Having 'em all just wonder what we do there in the back of her pink Cadillac.

golden oldie wrote:This I suspect was why SRR always made sure that he was 100% going into fights for the length of time he did.

That would have meant he was 100% going into his previous fight with Ralph Jones -- a fight where he took a bad beating, getting driven around the ring like a raw tyro by a strong attacking infighter.. Jones was very slick on the inside.. Maybe Small was another infighter to be wary of. I've never seen him fight.

Because you insipid moron... I clearly said "Small" in my post... Can you read??? I was talking about him ducking out of the Georgie Small fight... His previous fight to that was Ralph Jones and he was only 33 years old for those fights.. He had some of his best wins over Fullmer and Basilio well after that date.

The heading states "Sometimes he just didn't show up." Which even you should know means more than one fight and both articles are posted.

One more time - I wonder how many of these I will find; he started early
.

Serious question: does any one have a clue as to how often this guy got suspended?

With a sincere bowed down head and tears in his pleading eyes....

Sugar Ray Robinson said "Mr. Rosenbaum, I would LIKE to apologize."

He later got several jobs as an actor.

You can't beat a thread where two keyboard warriors criticize the best boxer ever, based on a newspaper clipping from decades ago.

Robinson 'showed up' 199 times.

keithmoonhangover wrote:You can't beat a thread where two keyboard warriors criticize the best boxer ever, based on a newspaper clipping from decades ago.

Robinson 'showed up' 199 times.

You could not hold people responsible for their actions but then there would be no history; being knee-jerk obedient has as of late become quite popular, so I understand your need to worship and not critique; it's a common aliment.

APerno wrote: it's a common aliment.

Bad spelling is a common ailment.

keithmoonhangover wrote:You can't beat a thread where two keyboard warriors criticize the best boxer ever, based on a newspaper clipping from decades ago.

Robinson 'showed up' 199 times.

And failed to show several times for flimsy excuses.

And best boxer ever??? Based on what exactly??? A cleverly crafted image, a stolen name, one of the most padded records in the History of Boxing, a mediocre ring record in actual World Title Fights, ducking 2 of the best boxers of his generation in Burley and Moore, never beating an outstanding boxer in his whole career -- and getting decked by Tommy Bell, Rocky Castellani, Rocky Graziano, Jake LaMotta, Artie Levine, and other raw swingers???

SRR got hit hard and often -- unlike prime Tunney.. Pep.. Mayweather.. Lomachenko.. Mikey Garcia.. and other outstanding masters who rarely got touched with a telling blow at their best. When Robinson was asked who the best boxer in the world was he said, "Willie Pep" -- and he was right.

Robinson was a very good, tough fighter with a resilient chin... I'll give him that... If he were matched with another good tough brawler you were guaranteed a close, hard fight -- with Robinson generally picking up the close rounds because he drew a lot of eyeballs with his charisma, public image, reputation and ring presence. It's a bit like fighting Jack Dempsey, Mike Tyson, or Muhammad Ali. Who's going to draw the most attention from the fans and commentators??? Bill Slayton said "Anytime you're fighting a world famous opponent, figure you're 2 or 3 points down before the 1st bell rings."

I'll put a stipulation on that... Unless you're from Eastern Europe (which means "Russian" to most idiots) and all the judges are Americans.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

APerno wrote: it's a common aliment.

Bad spelling is a common ailment.

Ah no argument so a cheap shot - typical! Got you figured - bye-bye!

Again! - This one involves two different failures to show.

APerno wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

APerno wrote: it's a common aliment.

Bad spelling is a common ailment.

Ah no argument so a cheap shot - typical! Got you figured - bye-bye!