BoxRec

The latest in our series of lame HW champ face offs.

I have a feeling I'm going to be in the minority when I suggest that The quiet man topples the Alp. But I think that's going to be based on sheer annoyance with the Hugmeister, and not based on a genuine skills assessment.

Ruiz wins....providing no one hands him or his cronies a check in advance, with instructions to place his Chin strategically right in the middle of the Amblers' sweet spot. As it was in the case of the Sharkey fight.

I'll go with Carnera... Because he beat Tommy Loughran and knocked Jack Sharkey dead... and Roy Jones boxed Ruiz to death with no problem.

And also, the very slow Mr. David Tua ripped a sweet combo off John Ruiz's chin... And that was just to get warmed up -- but it ended the fight.

Golden Oldie should know sleepers when he sees them....and of course commenting on such a fight is apparently beneath him....yet he burned a few calories to make a cameo appearance. And he is welcome to rev up in neutral on this one...which I imagine means this fight is a draw. In addition to his being bored with being FORCED to opine. I've really got to stop bullying the children.


MEMO TO KALAN: Seriously.......I won't say Sharkey was not KO'd in that fight.....what I will say is that he scheduled an appointment for his Chin to be parked in a convenient spot when slow deliberate shots coming in from easily readable coordinates arrived at his doorstep. I do think it was a gift and if people looked deeply enough, the receipt is likely in storage somewhere.

Sharkey could have avoided the incoming had he been interested. That's clearly true to all but those who need thicker glasses.


And yes...I have a glass eye.....but my glasses do me proud.

I'd go with Ruiz. Boring as he was I think he was a more capable boxer than Carnera. I figure it'd be a sloppy mess the whole way, but I figure Carnera would fatigue faster and Ruiz would either do just enough to outwork him down the stretch and take a decision or possibly stop him late.

It'd be ugly, but ugly is what Ruiz knows, and he'd win.

I think Primo would win.

Both could send a glass eye to sleep, so it doesn't matter anyway.

Brilliant

I have visions of both corner teams reaching for a pack of cards or checking the racing odds.

Maybe Ruiz grinds/mauls his way to a win and Primo is completely non-plussed by the whole thing?

Bodyshot3 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 15:36

Both could send a glass eye to sleep, so it doesn't matter anyway.

Brilliant

I have visions of both corner teams reaching for a pack of cards or checking the racing odds.

Maybe Ruiz grinds/mauls his way to a win and Primo is completely non-plussed by the whole thing?

Don't know about that, Primo was a really strong guy, he'd been a wrestler as well as a strongman and went 15 rounds a couple of times.

Bodyshot3 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 15:36

Both could send a glass eye to sleep, so it doesn't matter anyway.

Brilliant

I have visions of both corner teams reaching for a pack of cards or checking the racing odds.

Maybe Ruiz grinds/mauls his way to a win and Primo is completely non-plussed by the whole thing?

You laugh, but that actually sounds about right

Id go carnera

BoxBuzz wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 11:39 Golden Oldie should know sleepers when he sees them....and of course commenting on such a fight is apparently beneath him....yet he burned a few calories to make a cameo appearance. And he is welcome to rev up in neutral on this one...which I imagine means this fight is a draw. In addition to his being bored with being FORCED to opine. I've really got to stop bullying the children.


MEMO TO KALAN: Seriously.......I won't say Sharkey was not KO'd in that fight.....what I will say is that he scheduled an appointment for his Chin to be parked in a convenient spot when slow deliberate shots coming in from easily readable coordinates arrived at his doorstep. I do think it was a gift and if people looked deeply enough, the receipt is likely in storage somewhere.

Sharkey could have avoided the incoming had he been interested. That's clearly true to all but those who need thicker glasses.


And yes...I have a glass eye.....but my glasses do me proud.

My vision is damned good.. You apparently have 2 glass eyes...and your brain may be slow to function because Sharkey absorbed several hard punches he could have faked getting knocked out by BEFORE Carnera nailed him with the KO shot---a brutal right uppercut.. And if you watch this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvKzYODnxxM you can see Sharkey nailed Carnera with some brutal right hands and left hooks that might have knocked Carnera cold.. If you're going to throw a fight you don't risk throwing potential KO punches that smash into your opponent's jaw like that.. Sharkey defended as well as he could against his bigger and slower opponent -- but he wasn't a super slick defensive boxer was he?? He got nailed perfectly with the KO shot -- which is what often happens in Boxing -- Capeesh???

Carnera fought 102 professional fights scoring 88 wins with a KO ratio of 70%.. He wasn't a great Heavyweight.. He wasn't a really good one.. But you WILL NOT persevere as a professional boxer for over 100 fights as Carnera did -- or beat fighters the caliber of Walter Neusel, Ernie Schaaf, Jack Sharkey, King Levinsky, Tommy Loughran, Young Stribling and Paulino Uzcudun if you simply can't fight.. You don't go 11 rounds with Max Baer or 6 rounds with Joe Louis if you can't land any punches on them.. You'd be gone with the first punch like Johnny Davis.. Now the next idea BuzzBox is going to propose is that all those name Heavyweights purposely tanked their fights with Carnera.

BTW, when you watch the video you see the referee did everything he reasonably could to help Sharkey versus the foreign boxer... Including NOT calling a couple of knockdowns against Sharkey and protecting Sharkey when he got awkwardly turned around.

Kalan wrote: ↑05 Nov 2017, 02:29

BoxBuzz wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 11:39 Golden Oldie should know sleepers when he sees them....and of course commenting on such a fight is apparently beneath him....yet he burned a few calories to make a cameo appearance. And he is welcome to rev up in neutral on this one...which I imagine means this fight is a draw. In addition to his being bored with being FORCED to opine. I've really got to stop bullying the children.


MEMO TO KALAN: Seriously.......I won't say Sharkey was not KO'd in that fight.....what I will say is that he scheduled an appointment for his Chin to be parked in a convenient spot when slow deliberate shots coming in from easily readable coordinates arrived at his doorstep. I do think it was a gift and if people looked deeply enough, the receipt is likely in storage somewhere.

Sharkey could have avoided the incoming had he been interested. That's clearly true to all but those who need thicker glasses.


And yes...I have a glass eye.....but my glasses do me proud.

My vision is damned good.. You apparently have 2 glass eyes...and your brain may be slow to function because Sharkey absorbed several hard punches he could have faked getting knocked out by BEFORE Carnera nailed him with the KO shot---a brutal right uppercut.. And if you watch this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvKzYODnxxM you can see Sharkey nailed Carnera with some brutal right hands and left hooks that might have knocked Carnera cold.. If you're going to throw a fight you don't risk throwing potential KO punches that smash into your opponent's jaw like that.. Sharkey defended as well as he could against his bigger and slower opponent -- but he wasn't a super slick defensive boxer was he?? He got nailed perfectly with the KO shot -- which is what often happens in Boxing -- Capeesh???

Carnera fought 102 professional fights scoring 88 wins with a KO ratio of 70%.. He wasn't a great Heavyweight.. He wasn't a really good one.. But you WILL NOT persevere as a professional boxer for over 100 fights as Carnera did -- or beat fighters the caliber of Walter Neusel, Ernie Schaaf, Jack Sharkey, King Levinsky, Tommy Loughran, Young Stribling and Paulino Uzcudun if you simply can't fight.. You don't go 11 rounds with Max Baer or 6 rounds with Joe Louis if you can't land any punches on them.. You'd be gone with the first punch like Johnny Davis.. Now the next idea BuzzBox is going to propose is that all those name Heavyweights purposely tanked their fights with Carnera.

BTW, when you watch the video you see the referee did everything he reasonably could to help Sharkey versus the foreign boxer... Including NOT calling a couple of knockdowns against Sharkey and protecting Sharkey when he got awkwardly turned around.

I genuinely have a glass eye...not two glass eyes.....but what I don't have is an imagination that sees a hippopotamus and then thinks he is seeing, and then begins to describe a giraffe. So though your vision is admittedly superior, you easily make up for it with a vivid imagination. I see a Jack Sharkey that does not look like his typical self. And by the way.....how and why are you not even addressing the intrigue that is Carnera's past? As if it simply did not happen.... perhaps it did not register in your imagination?

Imagine this......Carnera's record MAY not be what it's cracked up to be....yet you cite the info in his case as if there is no question about it.

You play a very duplicitous game of recollection....and or history revisionism. Either that, or "facts" have little allure in your world, unless they coincide with your per-concieved world construct. At least mention that Carnera's history MAY be worthy of suspicion....... But that would be educating the kids in a way that apparently conflicts with your mission to confabulate. I will admit it's possible that Carnera's record is accurate....but any fair mind would at least mention the serious doubts that one must have to read his record and take it on faith. I i would suggest that the truth lies somewhere in between, and parsing of the record is worthy of the time it takes in order to render a fair assessment.


Note to the reader/s.

Kalan has not, and will not take time from his busy schedule to review the record.

Kalan would have been first in line at the Jones party......the Kool-Aid would have looked so delicious from his point of view. Check that.....he would have likely been a server of the Kool-Aid.

And yet.....I find myself agreeing with him about 33% of the time........sort of like the general public agrees with our current President about 33% of the time.

Politics may be his future.....

I would however caution the reader.......be wary of any Lemonade Kalan offers you.

BoxBuzz wrote: ↑05 Nov 2017, 11:05 I genuinely have a glass eye...not two glass eyes.....but what I don't have is an imagination that sees a hippopotamus and then thinks he is seeing, and then begins to describe a giraffe. So though your vision is admittedly superior, you easily make up for it with a vivid imagination. I see a Jack Sharkey that does not look like his typical self. And by the way.....how and why are you not even addressing the intrigue that is Carnera's past? As if it simply did not happen

'WHAT intrigue is in Carnera's past??? He was a huge and powerful man and not a great athlete.. But he was a FAIR athlete.. He fought over 100 professional fights over many years and managed to win the Heavyweight Championship of the World by learning a certain amount of boxing craft and technique.. Are there any fixed fights in Carnera's career??? That's what you seem to be insinuating ... WTF are you talking about, rumors??? Myths??? You shouldn't proclaim somebody a fraud without a strong level of proof. You're doing the most odious of speculations.

YOU are the one seeing things that aren't there... Do you believe Carnera genuinely beat Sharkey, Loughran, and Uzcudun??? Or do you think all 3 very famous and high ranking professional boxers THREW their fights with Carnera??? Tell me what you believe.. You are BEYOND ridiculous if you can watch those fights and don't see genuine efforts of those fighters to win.. You are simply so lame there would be no way to describe it..

Now in Actor Mickey Rourke's last fight, his opponent SAID he threw the fight for money that Rourke paid him.. The fight LOOKED extremely suspicious cuz he threw no serious punches at Rourke.. Boxrec refused to list the fight.. Thrown fights don't happen often.. That one was fake.

But tell me if you think Walter Neusel, Ernie Schaaf, Jack Sharkey, King Levinsky, Tommy Loughran, Young Stribling and Paulino Uzcudun, all famous professional boxers, defrauded the public by purposely throwing their boxing matches with Primo Carnera..

YOU fall like a sucker for urban myths.. You forgot that Sharkey WON the first Carnera fight.. Watch it.. It was a very hard fought fight.. Sharkey took some hard head shots, but he won.. Do you think he enjoyed taking those punches -- and did he just do it for added pleasure???

BoxBuzz wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 11:39 MEMO TO KALAN: Sharkey could have avoided the incoming had he been interested. That's clearly true to all but those who need thicker glasses.

Glasses thicker than what??? ... Your skull?

I see.. Sharkey could have avoided getting knocked dead by a world famous 270-pound athlete -- he just wasn't interested.. Makes sense.

So I guess when Sharkey beat Carnera in a very tough earlier fight -- he wasn't interested in avoiding the incoming in that fight either.. He certainly got tagged with some threatening shots in that fight.. He took big risks to get the victory -- which many times you HAVE to do at a high level in the fight game IF you want to win.. Sharkey could have played it safe and meekly accepted a loss by decision -- but he wasn't that kind of fighter or he never would have become Champion.. Sharkey had been in the mix at world level for a few years -- so he was a serious player.

Carnera also racked up many other victories over top rated boxers.. Were they all fakes??? ... Tell us genius.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 11:46 I'd go with Ruiz. Boring as he was I think he was a more capable boxer than Carnera. I figure it'd be a sloppy mess the whole way, but I figure Carnera would fatigue faster and Ruiz would either do just enough to outwork him down the stretch and take a decision or possibly stop him late.

It'd be ugly, but ugly is what Ruiz knows, and he'd win.

Carnera was massive, and very strong. Ruiz could not have outwrestled him, which is how he won his matches. I do agree Ruiz was perhaps a bit more capable from a boxing standpoint, but physically he would have been dreadfully inferior to Primo and given his style I cannot see how he would win.

Not the Carnera who beat Sharkey... I don't see Ruiz winning in a million years... Not that Carnera could box well. Neither could box.

So he'd have less of a chance against Carnera than he did against The Beast From the East?

That's a good question... Valuev was never knocked down. Carnera visited the canvas a lot but was never stopped before his Baer fight more than 70 fights in.. Ruiz didn't lose that badly against Valuev -- but Valuev flagrantly ducked both Klitschko's who I believe would have destroyed him.

Valuev's knees started to go and he started to falter a bit around the Ruiz fight... He didn't have a lot of fights left in him.

Both men were 'World' champions in their own right, but in heavily different circumstances.

Ruiz won the title and had genuine boxing ability both to develop as a world contender and go the distance with a few of the bigger names in the division while he held the WBA version of the heavy weight title and compete in a WBC eliminator.

Carnera on the other hand won the National Boxing Association and the New York state Athletic commission world heavyweight titles at a time when the title was controlled by people behind the scenes, mafia/mob control decided who was the champion and they wanted the giant as their champion so stacked the deck in his favour.

Taking both at their competitive prime Ruiz would still have a better training background and had a better developed strategy, that's before you consider his overall ability in the first place going into the fight. Carnera would be at a huge disadvantage since he relied primarily on his size and power, not his ability in the ring.
Ruiz to win by majority decision as he drags out the fight into the later rounds and wins by comfortable decision.

Ruiz was a paper champion, nothing more. Carnera was a real champion. Unlike Ruiz, Carnera beat a man who was the real champion, then made two successful title defenses against legitimate contenders.
Ruiz was not skillful at all. He would try to throw a punch and then tie up his opponent. His hope was to make it a ugly close fight and hope to win a close decision in a fight that hard to score. This was his only chance to beat Carnera.

Carnera obviously was not ultra-talented. However, he had a good jab, had some power, and usually gave a good effort. Ruiz had nothing.
Watch Carnera fight vs Joe Louis. Yes he beaten convincingly. However, he was in there battling for 6 rounds. No way Ruiz could do that.

Ruiz would try his one-punch and hold routine. It might be close (and ugly) for awhile, but eventually Carnera takes over.

BoxBuzz wrote: ↑06 Nov 2017, 22:02 So he'd have less of a chance against Carnera than he did against The Beast From the East?

Of course. Carnera could fight. Valuev couldn't.

Mmm good question this one. Carnera has a woeful rep particularly with boxing writers of the 80s and 90s. Ruiz is an open book. We know what he could or rather couldn’t do. Primo is either a huge clown with mafia connections or a decent fighter out of his depth at top level but some good wins and performances against good pros. I’m going with the latter so primo on pts.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑09 Nov 2017, 11:37

BoxBuzz wrote: ↑06 Nov 2017, 22:02 So he'd have less of a chance against Carnera than he did against The Beast From the East?

Of course. Carnera could fight. Valuev couldn't.

golden oldie wrote: ↑09 Nov 2017, 08:18 If Don King, Bob Arum, The Duva's with allegedly thrown into the mix, for the " European " angle combined forces they would struggle like f""k to make a dollar promoting such boring rubbish as these 2 " fighting " each other.

Paint, would watch them dry

Ruiz vs Carnera would be a good fight... Jack Sharkey couldn't tie Carnera up -- he wasn't big, tall, or strong enough.. Sharkey had to fight his ass off in both fights.. So would Ruiz.. Both Carnera-Sharkey fights were good action fights -- because both Heavyweights took big bombs dead on the chin.. They could both be hit smack on the jaw -- an all-time-great puncher like Joe Louis made short work of both of them.

Ruiz got hit a ton.. Great puncher David Tua blitzed him.. Neither Carnera nor Ruiz had that kind of punching power -- so it's a D for Primo.

You're worse... And your brainless and biased posts are boring.

Carnera packed stadiums and Ruiz's fights with Holyfield, Rahman, Tua, Valuev, Golota, Jones, Johnson, and Haye didn't do that badly... More people paid to watch Carnera and Ruiz's fights than would read your posts for free.

I suppose, it would have gone similar to Ruiz-Valuev 1, and I see that fight as a robbery, i.e. Ruiz was actually winning and he would have won against Carnera in the similar fashion. However, both had decent punch and not granite chin, so the sudden KO could have been scored by any of sides.

Carnera was a lot better than Valuev.
Ruiz was not as good as Loughran, Sharkey, Uzcudun etc.

Ruiz had no punch at all. He is not going to score a sudden knockout.
Carnera got hit with a ton of shots by Joe Louis before he was finally stopped.