BoxRec

RIddick Bowe fought Evander Holyfield three times, Riddick won twice.

Bowe fought Andrew Golota twice, Riddick beat Andrew both times. But, the victories were by disqualifications. Prior to both disqualifications, Golota was leading on the judges scorecards.


After Bowe's fights with Andrew Golota, Riddick gained A LOT of weight.



Had Bowe performed better against Golota, and had Riddick kept his weight down. Had Bowe fought Lennox Lewis, & had he beat Lennox. ------------

Do you think that Riddick Bowe could have ranked among some of the top heavyweight boxers of all time? If so, why?

If not, why not?


Please explain.

Yes... If Bowe had the guts to fight Lewis and he won that fight he would be ranked with the greatest Heavyweights ever...

But Bowe couldn't box or defend himself well.. He was wide open.. So he ducked Lewis to avoid a certain KO loss.. So it's a moot point.

Holyfield only lost to Bowe because he wasn't right... When he was good he beat him -- but he was way underweight for their first fight at 205... He was suffering from heart problems and palpitations in the rubbermatch.. That's the same reason Evander lost to the ridiculous Moorer in an upset. It was those heart problems that robbed him of energy and he couldn't fight worth a nickle..

Holyfield went so see an Eastern Mystic Guru who cured him of his heart problems... The man performed some kind of hocus pokus on him and the heart problems never returned... I think Holy's heart probably got better on its own and his body somehow cured the ailment for him.

I don't think Bowe had it in the head department, to be a great fighter. He had all the physical tools no problem but he was a basket case

bollocks wrote: ↑07 Nov 2017, 21:01 I don't think Bowe had it in the head department, to be a great fighter. He had all the physical tools no problem but he was a basket case

For some people climbing the mountain is enough. For others they need to master the mountain. Bowe on the night he first beat Holyfield is a handful for any heavy who ever lived, Bowe was never as good again as he was that night.

Not for me... Holyfield was underweight and looked weak.. At 205 he didn't look like he'd make it.. Nothing to do w/ Bowe. It was Holy.

In the rematch Holyfield looked much stronger at 217... He built himself a fair Heavyweight body between fights... He'd been a rock-hard 208 for most fights...hardly Heavyweight stature.. Tyson would have beaten him also if he weighed 205.. No freakin' way you have the strength for it.

'Evan Fields'

Bowe will always be measured for his fights with Holyfield. Styles make fights and Bows looked great in their first fight, that flattered Bowe as he never looked that great against anyone else. Its funny as Holyfield wasn't a big guy, he was 6'2" and fought best around 210-215lbs. Today people would be saying Holyfield is too small to hang with todays HW monsters. Its a shame Bowe never had any other key fights to really judge his ability, some guys need a challenge to fight at their best.

The Holyfield rematch was a key fight to judge Bowe on... Both fighters made a ton of key mistakes in the first fight... Beginning with Holyfield coming in so light and weak for that fight at 205... They had a lot of material to work with in their camp leading up to the rematch...

Holyfield was much better prepared, just like he was for the Tyson rematch -- also a key fight he needed to win at to establish his superiority. In the Bowe rubber match it was out of Holyfield's control.. Evander suffered from undue fatigue and knew he had to go for the KO.. Wladimir Klitschko was winning the 1st Brewster fight easily -- but said he felt so weak he could barely get off his stool for the 2nd round.. He had no choice but to go for the KO.. Holyfield had no choice in the Bowe rubbermatch.. Holy won the 2nd fight by boxing his bigger, stronger, and harder punching opponent, but he had nothing for the rubbermatch.. Holy said he tried hard to get a KO punch in so he could get outta there and lay down in his dressing room. If you suddenly feel like your arms weigh 100 pounds each and your legs won't move, you're in for a bad night.

Holy was very well prepared for the Lewis rematch, but still barely won 3 rounds.. Lewis also fought much better in their rematch and picked Holy apart.. Riddick Bowe ducked Mercer, Ruddock, McCall, Tyson, Lewis, and Tua... He basically ducked every big puncher in the division... Golota might have been a test for Michael Grant - a very slow and hittable Heavyweight.. He should not have been a test for Bowe ... but he was.

Kalan wrote: ↑07 Nov 2017, 20:16 Yes... If Bowe had the guts to fight Lewis and he won that fight he would be ranked with the greatest Heavyweights ever...

But Bowe couldn't box or defend himself well.. He was wide open.. So he ducked Lewis to avoid a certain KO loss.. So it's a moot point.

Holyfield only lost to Bowe because he wasn't right... When he was good he beat him -- but he was way underweight for their first fight at 205... He was suffering from heart problems and palpitations in the rubbermatch.. That's the same reason Evander lost to the ridiculous Moorer in an upset. It was those heart problems that robbed him of energy and he couldn't fight worth a nickle..

Holyfield went so see an Eastern Mystic Guru who cured him of his heart problems... The man performed some kind of hocus pokus on him and the heart problems never returned... I think Holy's heart probably got better on its own and his body somehow cured the ailment for him.

How do you think you would have done against Bowe in your prime Kalan? Did he hit with enough authority to get your attention?

If bowe had fought and beat Lennox Lewis around the time the fight could have been made, he’d probably be a fixture in the top ten ever imo

Probably so. Unless he would have blown out in the early rounds, he would be rated higher than he is by most people.

He will be most remembered for the Holyfield fights. He actually fought a great fight in the rematch and could have got the decision in that one or got a draw. He looked very good in other fights after that but it was hard to evaluate because the opponents were not that good. If you watch his fights against Gonzales and Hide for example he looks pretty good. He blew out a fading Dokes.
He was supposed to fight Mercer but Mercer was upset by Ferguson. Ferguson was nothing special but usually gave good fighters trouble. Bowe blew Ferguson away. The myth of him ducking Lewis has been answered many times but people just can't get the whole garbage can thing out their head.

As for Bowe, in the end we should rate him on what happened, not what could have. He doesn't deserve to be right at the top, but he was a great fighter.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑09 Nov 2017, 11:35 Probably so. Unless he would have blown out in the early rounds, he would be rated higher than he is by most people.

He will be most remembered for the Holyfield fights. He actually fought a great fight in the rematch and could have got the decision in that one or got a draw. He looked very good in other fights after that but it was hard to evaluate because the opponents were not that good. If you watch his fights against Gonzales and Hide for example he looks pretty good. He blew out a fading Dokes.
He was supposed to fight Mercer but Mercer was upset by Ferguson. Ferguson was nothing special but usually gave good fighters trouble. Bowe blew Ferguson away. The myth of him ducking Lewis has been answered many times but people just can't get the whole garbage can thing out their head.

As for Bowe, in the end we should rate him on what happened, not what could have. He doesn't deserve to be right at the top, but he was a great fighter.

I don't see Bowe as great... Just as extremely lucky -- and having the benefit of corrupt backers in the Boxing Establishment.

Bowe was lucky he had a corrupt referee vs Jorge Luis Gonzalez -- anybody else would have disqualified Bowe for deliberately smashing Gonzalez several times AFTER the bell ending the round started dinging loudly.. Jim Lampley called Bowe "STUPID" for committing flagrant fouls.

He was lucky Herbie Hide had a glass chin... Hide boxed the piss out of the inept Bowe for 3 rounds til Bowe started rough-housing him.

Bowe got lucky when Evander came in weak and underweight -- and when Evander had heart problems that destroyed his rubbermatch effort.

But corrupt people pay sooner or later... As they say, all is well that ends well -- all isn't well that doesn't end well... Too bad about Bowe.

Kalan wrote: ↑09 Nov 2017, 15:46 Bowe got lucky when Evander came in weak and underweight -- and when Evander had heart problems that destroyed his rubbermatch effort.

Wow... post by Kalan and I completely agree with it

Or almost completely, I believe Holy had heart problems against Moorer, and for Bowe rubbermatch it was hepatisis

Anyway my point is that while Bowe obviously could do much better with some discipline and motivation (he is younger than Holy/Tyson/Lewis - so one can easily imagine him fighting around early 2000s when division was wide open), he also had no defence for top fighter.

His combination of chin, power and size would still make him too much against fighters that were just good, he would come short against absolute top. I see Lewis beating him to the punch more or less like Golota did, and Tyson (pre-prison) murdering him.

I think Kalan has nailed Bowe to a tee.

There is no doubting Bowe's heart nor his offensive skills, plus his in-fighting was up there with the best, despite being tall with long arms, but his defence was poor & he got hit too much.

Add in that as one of the top HWs of the 90s managed to avoid fighting the majority of the most dangerous guys of the era with the exception of Holyfield certainly harms his legacy.

Agree that his defense was not that good. However, his offense was so good that overall he had a lot talent.
The notion of him ducking people is overblown. People were not saying it at the time. We have to look at timelines very closely as well as fighter's reputations at the time.
People didn't take the garbage can thing seriously at t he time. we all thought Lewis-Bowe would probably happen at some time. Then Lewis got upset by McCall (in a premature stoppage) that delayed a showdown.
There was actually very little time for Tyson and Bowe showdown to happen. Tyson was in prison for most of Bowe's prime. They could have fought in early 1996 and that is about it.

Foreman had no intention of fighting Bowe; and it it would not have proven much if Bowe beat old George anyway.
He was going to fight Mercer but Mercer got upset by Ferguson.

Take a look at who Bowe fought before he ever won the title:
Pinklon Thomas, Bert Cooper, Tyrell Biggs, Tony Tubbs, and Bruce Seldon. No, they weren't all in their prime, but that's not bad for a fighter on his way up.

Hide and Gonzlaez were considered pretty good wins and impressive performances by Bowe at the time. Their careers (especially Gonzalez's) never really materialized so it doesn't look as good now. Even Donald was a talented young fighter when Bowe beat him but for whatever reason disappeared from the big time for several years after it.
No these guys weren't legends,but the point is that Bowe was fighting as good as competition as anyone besides Holyfield; at least going into the fights.

I don't think you can compare Bowe's resume with that of Lewis's... Lewis beats Mercer, Tua, and Holyfield without a loss... He destroyed Golota, Grant, Ruddock and Tyson without even trying ... and he reversed his only losses to Rahman and McCall... Lewis tried to fight the best.

It wasn't a matter of George Foreman or Michael Moorer... Much like Bowe did, Moorer fought almost NONE of the top Heavyweights except Holyfield and Tua who both flattened him... Foreman fought none of the top Heavyweights except Holyfield and Moorer... Holmes stepped right into line for a McCall fight after he knocked Lewis out -- and a lot of people believe Larry beat McCall.. He definitely was looking for Foreman.

Foreman fought challengers like Crawford Grimsley and Lou Saverese... He was NOT looking to fight dangerous punchers or master boxers... Bowe was not a one-punch guy... He was a big, strong, tough brawler at his best---but so was Max Baer... Great Heavyweights???? ... Not really.

Lewis definitely has the superior resume, he's a top 10 heavy. Bowe probably rates in the 15-25 range. Surprised to see kalan get one right, though riddicks obviously superior resume and talent over vitali is list in him. What a beating bowe would give either brother.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: ↑10 Nov 2017, 17:33 Lewis definitely has the superior resume, he's a top 10 heavy. Bowe probably rates in the 15-25 range. Surprised to see kalan get one right, though riddicks obviously superior resume and talent over vitali is list in him. What a beating bowe would give either brother.

Bowe would have been CRUSHED if he fought a Klitschko Bro... Similar to what would happen had he fought Lewis... He FEARED big guys.

Bowe would be another Derrick Jefferson, Jameel McCline, Ray Austin, or Danny Williams (the guy who knocked out Tyson).. When they faced good big men they crumbled.. That's why they were usually fighting little punks who they could overpower ... like Bowe did.

Kalan wrote: ↑10 Nov 2017, 21:34

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: ↑10 Nov 2017, 17:33 Lewis definitely has the superior resume, he's a top 10 heavy. Bowe probably rates in the 15-25 range. Surprised to see kalan get one right, though riddicks obviously superior resume and talent over vitali is list in him. What a beating bowe would give either brother.

Bowe would have been CRUSHED if he fought a Klitschko Bro... Similar to what would happen had he fought Lewis... He FEARED big guys.

Bowe would be another Derrick Jefferson, Jameel McCline, Ray Austin, or Danny Williams (the guy who knocked out Tyson).. When they faced good big men they crumbled.. That's why they were usually fighting little punks who they could overpower like Bowe did.

You have about as much brain matter left as Bowe.

Kalan wrote: ↑11 Nov 2017, 01:52 You have about as much brain matter left as Bowe.

That puts me well above you.

Only in bias and nastiness... You have more of those than anybody.

I think Rock Newman did Bowe a great disservice by passing up the Lewis fight. It no doubt would have been the biggest payday of his career. That and I actually think that Bowe would have had a pretty good chance against a pre-Steward version of Lennox. He also should have won the second fight with Holyfield. Bowe was a portly 246 lbs for that fight and performed lazily. Had he beaten Lewis and won the holy rematch, he could have retired right then and there as an ATG.

Bowe would have had his head taken off by Lewis... Look at their respective fights against Golota... You couldn't miss Bowe with a punch.

Extremely slow and ponderous Michael Grant actually did better against Golota than Bowe did.

Seems Bowe added a lot of Lustre to Lewis's rep with the widely believed fiction that Bowe avoided him.

The fact that this is fiction doesn't seem to hold much sway with those who just want it to be true.

And if you use the belt going in the garbage can as your clear proof.....fine, it's a lazy man's detective work.

The story has more chapters, but some prefer to simply read the unfinished cliff notes, and make their assumptions out of convenience.


Besides why miss a chance to give Lewis more credit when it's so easily exploitable.

I do think Lewis beat K boy fair and square, but as Kalan has pointed out, that fight took a few turns that indicated the difficulty and the odd tactics that it took to get it done.


Best thing that ever happened to Lewis's reputation and career was Bowe throwing a belt into a trashcan. Ah well.....assumptions are what they are.