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Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 04:40
by Enlightened-One
"WBC Prez: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking"
Earlier this month, heavyweight contender Luis Ortiz had a meeting with World Boxing Council President Mauricio Sulaiman in Brooklyn, New York to discuss the Cuban boxer's recent drug test failure.
His failed test had forced the WBC to drop Ortiz from a scheduled November 4 heavyweight title fight against Deontay Wilder at the Barclays Center. He was replaced by Bermane Stiverne, who was knocked out in one round.
Ortiz failed a random urine test, administered by the Voluntary Anti-Doping Association (VADA) on September 22, the 38-year-old's second failed drug test in three years. He tested positive for two banned diuretics that are commonly used as masking agents for performance-enhancing drug use.
Ortiz did not deny taking the two banned diuretics, chlorothiazide and hydrochlorothiazide, but said they are present in the high blood pressure medication he is taking.
Sulaiman informed ESPN Deportes that his organization will not suspend Ortiz and the boxer will retain his number 3 ranking in the top ten.
The next step, says Sulaiman, is to have a series of exams to ensure Ortiz is healthy enough to fight, and then the WBC will monitor Ortiz's future drug tests.
However, Ortiz did not dodge every bullet.
As reported three weeks ago by BS.com, the World Boxing Association (WBA) suspended Ortiz for one year for the failed drug test.
Ortiz, undefeated in 27 fights with all but four wins coming via knockout, was the mandatory challenger for Anthony Joshua's WBA title.
Ortiz's WBA suspension means his status as title contender is revoked, he is removed from the WBA rankings, and he may not fight in a WBA-sanctioned fight until September 22, 2018.
Both the WBA and WBC have anti-doping programs run by VADA.
WBA President Gilberto Mendoza explained that his organization needed to take a much tougher position, because they based their decision on the fact that Ortiz tested positive for anabolic steroids in 2014, when he was the WBA's interim heavyweight champion. He failed a post-fight drug test following a first round destruction of Lateef Kayode in Las Vegas.
Thoughts?
Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 04:55
by Ossyrules
That it’s mental to pull someone for a title fight for drugs and there is no subsequent ban
Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 04:57
by Enlightened-One
Here’s a list of points that cannot possibly be refuted:
• Ortiz has already received a suspension from the WBA in 2015 due to testing positive for banned substances
• Ortiz admitted to consuming banned substances during his training camp for the Wilder fight
• The two banned diuretics that Ortiz admitted to consuming, chlorothiazide and hydrochlorothiazide, can be present in high blood pressure medication, but they are also renowned and commonly used masking agents for performance-enhancing drug use
• The World Boxing Association (WBA) suspended Ortiz for one year for his most recent failed drug test.
• Ortiz failed to disclose the drugs that he was prescribed to the WBC/VADA
• Ortiz failed to disclose to the WBC/VADA his health justification for consuming banned substances
• Ortiz failed to request from the WBC/VADA an exemption to allow himself to continue taking those technically banned substances
• The extent of Ortiz’s alleged medical condition that was used to justify his consumption of the banned substances has not been ascertained by the WBC
These are the facts, which have already been co-signed by the WBC, WBA, VADA and Team Ortiz.
Therefore, it seems strange that the WBC have not imposed any sort of punishment onto Luis Ortiz, even for failing to follow procedure (i.e. for not disclosing his medication, for not disclosing his health condition and for not requesting an exemption).
It also seems strange that the WBC’s physicians that were sent to check the status of Luis’ health six weeks ago did not ascertain whether the Cuban was medically fit to fight, since they would have had to perform extensive tests of their own anyway to verify the medical justification for Ortiz to consume those banned substances.
It leads me to believe that the WBC have adopted a “leap of faith” approach when they deemed Luis Ortiz of his supposed innocence, which means they’ve set a dangerous precedent, because other fighters are now permitted to behave in a similar manner as the Cuban and escape any sort of punishment.
Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 05:24
by jamamb
let stverne go too ddnt they? or was that excuse legit ? but ya deffo not '0 tolerance ' wth this case
Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 05:25
by chinarich
Leaving aside questions of his guilt (or otherwise) it's a ridiculous situation that he is being treated differently by two sanctioning bodies. What if he were to fight and beat Wilder next and then enter into negotiations for a unification with Joshua? Depending on the timeline the WBA title would not be on the line.
In boxing we are never going to have a single authority but I think there has to be unanimity on how VADA / WADA failed tests are handled otherwise it is farcical. Boxers who fail a drug test need to be banned from all boxing activity not just by one organisation...
Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 05:56
by asdfjkl
Wilder probably wants to set him up against Whyte, silly silly WBC. People shouldn't want to fight for such a belt any more in 2017 onwards.
Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 06:02
by asdfjkl
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 04:57
Here’s a list of points that cannot possibly be refuted:
• Ortiz has already received a suspension from the WBA in 2015 due to testing positive for banned substances
• Ortiz admitted to consuming banned substances during his training camp for the Wilder fight
• The two banned diuretics that Ortiz admitted to consuming, chlorothiazide and hydrochlorothiazide, can be present in high blood pressure medication, but they are also renowned and commonly used masking agents for performance-enhancing drug use
• The World Boxing Association (WBA) suspended Ortiz for one year for his most recent failed drug test.
• Ortiz failed to disclose the drugs that he was prescribed to the WBC/VADA
• Ortiz failed to disclose to the WBC/VADA his health justification for consuming banned substances
• Ortiz failed to request from the WBC/VADA an exemption to allow himself to continue taking those technically banned substances
• The extent of Ortiz’s alleged medical condition that was used to justify his consumption of the banned substances has not been ascertained by the WBC
These are the facts, which have already been co-signed by the WBC, WBA, VADA and Team Ortiz.
Therefore, it seems strange that the WBC have not imposed any sort of punishment onto Luis Ortiz, even for failing to follow procedure (i.e. for not disclosing his medication, for not disclosing his health condition and for not requesting an exemption).
It also seems strange that the WBC’s physicians that were sent to check the status of Luis’ health six weeks ago did not ascertain whether the Cuban was medically fit to fight, since they would have had to perform extensive tests of their own anyway to verify the medical justification for Ortiz to consume those banned substances.
It leads me to believe that the WBC have adopted a “leap of faith” approach when they deemed Luis Ortiz of his supposed innocence, which means they’ve set a dangerous precedent, because other fighters are now permitted to behave in a similar manner as the Cuban and escape any sort of punishment.
If I read all this, I lol, it can easely be checked if Ortiz already took these medicines long before this fight was scheduled. Why do you need to tell vada again, what they already know? Water can also be used as a masking agent, should we now ban everybody who drinks water? The story doesn't make sense and all of these facts were known last year. That's probably the reason they chose Ortiz, because they knew this beforehand. That's also why Wilder said what he said during the press conference.
Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 06:08
by Enlightened-One
chinarich wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 05:25In boxing we are never going to have a single authority but I think there has to be unanimity on how VADA / WADA failed tests are handled otherwise it is farcical. Boxers who fail a drug test need to be banned from all boxing activity not just by one organisation...
I’m not disagreeing with your sentiments, but…
In relation to the sport of boxing, VADA simply administers the WADA code (protocol) for their anti-doping tests, which means that they follow the expected test procedure to monitor WADA’s prohibited list of banned substances. However, it’s not their responsibility to determine guilt or impose punishments. All they do is provide the evidence.
It’s the duty of the sport’s governing bodies to determine guilt and then penalise boxers for failing anti-doping tests.
I’m not saying that I agree with this approach, but it is what it is.
Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 06:18
by Enlightened-One
asdfjkl wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 06:02
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 04:57
Here’s a list of points that cannot possibly be refuted:
• Ortiz has already received a suspension from the WBA in 2015 due to testing positive for banned substances
• Ortiz admitted to consuming banned substances during his training camp for the Wilder fight
• The two banned diuretics that Ortiz admitted to consuming, chlorothiazide and hydrochlorothiazide, can be present in high blood pressure medication, but they are also renowned and commonly used masking agents for performance-enhancing drug use
• The World Boxing Association (WBA) suspended Ortiz for one year for his most recent failed drug test.
• Ortiz failed to disclose the drugs that he was prescribed to the WBC/VADA
• Ortiz failed to disclose to the WBC/VADA his health justification for consuming banned substances
• Ortiz failed to request from the WBC/VADA an exemption to allow himself to continue taking those technically banned substances
• The extent of Ortiz’s alleged medical condition that was used to justify his consumption of the banned substances has not been ascertained by the WBC
These are the facts, which have already been co-signed by the WBC, WBA, VADA and Team Ortiz.
Therefore, it seems strange that the WBC have not imposed any sort of punishment onto Luis Ortiz, even for failing to follow procedure (i.e. for not disclosing his medication, for not disclosing his health condition and for not requesting an exemption).
It also seems strange that the WBC’s physicians that were sent to check the status of Luis’ health six weeks ago did not ascertain whether the Cuban was medically fit to fight, since they would have had to perform extensive tests of their own anyway to verify the medical justification for Ortiz to consume those banned substances.
It leads me to believe that the WBC have adopted a “leap of faith” approach when they deemed Luis Ortiz of his supposed innocence, which means they’ve set a dangerous precedent, because other fighters are now permitted to behave in a similar manner as the Cuban and escape any sort of punishment.
If I read all this, I lol, it can easely be checked if Ortiz already took these medicines long before this fight was scheduled. Why do you need to tell vada again, what they already know? Water can also be used as a masking agent, should we now ban everybody who drinks water? The story doesn't make sense and all of these facts were known last year. That's probably the reason they chose Ortiz, because they knew this beforehand. That's also why Wilder said what he said during the press conference.
That’s the crux of my conundrum… apparently the WBC and VADA did not know about the medical condition or the medication that Luis Ortiz took prior to him entering training camp for the Deontay Wilder fight.
Luis Ortiz did not declare this information.
I’d like you to prove that the Cuban’s medication and health condition was communicated to both the WBC and VADA prior to him agreeing to the Wilder fight.
For all I know Ortiz might have indeed been prescribed his medication prior to signing-up for the Wilder fight, but if he didn’t disclose it to anyone then he should still be punished for failing to follow procedure.
It’s also abundantly clear that the extent/justification of Luis Ortiz’s alleged medical condition has not been ascertained, because the WBC have openly admitted that they need to perform tests to determine whether or not he’s actually medically fit enough to compete.
Surely the status of Luis Ortiz’s health would have been measured when they supposedly verified the medical justification for him to consume banned substances, but this clearly doesn’t appear to be the case?
Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 07:02
by asdfjkl
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 06:18
asdfjkl wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 06:02
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 04:57
Here’s a list of points that cannot possibly be refuted:
• Ortiz has already received a suspension from the WBA in 2015 due to testing positive for banned substances
• Ortiz admitted to consuming banned substances during his training camp for the Wilder fight
• The two banned diuretics that Ortiz admitted to consuming, chlorothiazide and hydrochlorothiazide, can be present in high blood pressure medication, but they are also renowned and commonly used masking agents for performance-enhancing drug use
• The World Boxing Association (WBA) suspended Ortiz for one year for his most recent failed drug test.
• Ortiz failed to disclose the drugs that he was prescribed to the WBC/VADA
• Ortiz failed to disclose to the WBC/VADA his health justification for consuming banned substances
• Ortiz failed to request from the WBC/VADA an exemption to allow himself to continue taking those technically banned substances
• The extent of Ortiz’s alleged medical condition that was used to justify his consumption of the banned substances has not been ascertained by the WBC
These are the facts, which have already been co-signed by the WBC, WBA, VADA and Team Ortiz.
Therefore, it seems strange that the WBC have not imposed any sort of punishment onto Luis Ortiz, even for failing to follow procedure (i.e. for not disclosing his medication, for not disclosing his health condition and for not requesting an exemption).
It also seems strange that the WBC’s physicians that were sent to check the status of Luis’ health six weeks ago did not ascertain whether the Cuban was medically fit to fight, since they would have had to perform extensive tests of their own anyway to verify the medical justification for Ortiz to consume those banned substances.
It leads me to believe that the WBC have adopted a “leap of faith” approach when they deemed Luis Ortiz of his supposed innocence, which means they’ve set a dangerous precedent, because other fighters are now permitted to behave in a similar manner as the Cuban and escape any sort of punishment.
If I read all this, I lol, it can easely be checked if Ortiz already took these medicines long before this fight was scheduled. Why do you need to tell vada again, what they already know? Water can also be used as a masking agent, should we now ban everybody who drinks water? The story doesn't make sense and all of these facts were known last year. That's probably the reason they chose Ortiz, because they knew this beforehand. That's also why Wilder said what he said during the press conference.
That’s the crux of my conundrum… apparently the WBC and VADA did not know about the medical condition or the medication that Luis Ortiz took prior to him entering training camp for the Deontay Wilder fight.
Luis Ortiz did not declare this information.
I’d like you to prove that the Cuban’s medication and health condition was communicated to both the WBC and VADA prior to him agreeing to the Wilder fight.
For all I know Ortiz might have indeed been prescribed his medication prior to signing-up for the Wilder fight, but if he didn’t disclose it to anyone then he should still be punished for failing to follow procedure.
It’s also abundantly clear that the extent/justification of Luis Ortiz’s alleged medical condition has not been ascertained, because the WBC have openly admitted that they need to perform tests to determine whether or not he’s actually medically fit enough to compete.
Surely the status of Luis Ortiz’s health would have been measured when they supposedly verified the medical justification for him to consume banned substances, but this clearly doesn’t appear to be the case?
Vada tested him regularly, and now all of a sudden they didn't know, what kind of compagnie is this :s?
Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 07:33
by Enlightened-One
asdfjkl wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 07:02
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 06:18
asdfjkl wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 06:02
If I read all this, I lol, it can easely be checked if Ortiz already took these medicines long before this fight was scheduled. Why do you need to tell vada again, what they already know? Water can also be used as a masking agent, should we now ban everybody who drinks water? The story doesn't make sense and all of these facts were known last year. That's probably the reason they chose Ortiz, because they knew this beforehand. That's also why Wilder said what he said during the press conference.
That’s the crux of my conundrum… apparently the WBC and VADA did not know about the medical condition or the medication that Luis Ortiz took prior to him entering training camp for the Deontay Wilder fight.
Luis Ortiz did not declare this information.
I’d like you to prove that the Cuban’s medication and health condition was communicated to both the WBC and VADA prior to him agreeing to the Wilder fight.
For all I know Ortiz might have indeed been prescribed his medication prior to signing-up for the Wilder fight, but if he didn’t disclose it to anyone then he should still be punished for failing to follow procedure.
It’s also abundantly clear that the extent/justification of Luis Ortiz’s alleged medical condition has not been ascertained, because the WBC have openly admitted that they need to perform tests to determine whether or not he’s actually medically fit enough to compete.
Surely the status of Luis Ortiz’s health would have been measured when they supposedly verified the medical justification for him to consume banned substances, but this clearly doesn’t appear to be the case?
Vada tested him regularly, and now all of a sudden they didn't know, what kind of compagnie is this :s?
Doug Fischer, Dan Rafael and Stephen "Breadman" Edwards have all commented on the fact that the vast majority of fighters enrolled in the WBC’s “Clean Boxing” program aren’t actually tested out-of-competition.
According to the WBC, for the first three months' of activity of the CBP during 2017, “only” 28 fighters from eleven countries were tested out-of-competition. Only 19 fighters were tested for the previous three months.
I intentionally used the word “only”, because there are actually seventeen weight divisions in professional boxing. And there are at least 272 boxers enrolled in this program.
You can’t pretend something to be true if you’re unable to substantiate it.
Simply put: you’ve alleged something to being true without possessing any evidence whatsoever.
Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 08:20
by Ruthless-RKO
WBC let Luis Nery walk.. keep his belt, no suspension.. all he has to do is rematch Yamanaka..
It's only fair they let Ortiz walk on this occasion or they would have come under pressure..
Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 08:27
by Enlightened-One
Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 08:20
WBC let Luis Nery walk.. keep his belt, no suspension.. all he has to do is rematch Yamanaka..
It's only fair they let Ortiz walk on this occasion or they would have come under pressure..
Whilst I agree about the WBC having to behave consistently whenever they set precedents…
Is the concept of “fairness” really applicable when Ortiz clearly broke the rules of the “Clean Boxing Program”, because even if he has medical justification for consuming those banned substances, he failed to disclose his medication condition, he failed to disclose his medication and he also failed to request an exemption, coupled with the fact that the WBC have not yet ascertained the true extent of his medication condition?
Luis Nery claims that he inadvertently consumed substantial amounts of beef that led to him testing positive for a steroid.
Whereas, Luis Ortiz made a premeditated decision to consume a banned substance, but failed to disclose it.
The situations are entirely different, unless you can explain their similarities to me?
Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 08:34
by Ruthless-RKO
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 08:27
Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 08:20
WBC let Luis Nery walk.. keep his belt, no suspension.. all he has to do is rematch Yamanaka..
It's only fair they let Ortiz walk on this occasion or they would have come under pressure..
Whilst I agree about the WBC having to behave consistently whenever they set precedents…
Is the concept of “fairness” really applicable when Ortiz clearly broke the rules of the “Clean Boxing Program”, because even if he has medical justification for consuming those banned substances, he failed to disclose his medication condition, he failed to disclose his medication and he also failed to request an exemption, coupled with the fact that the WBC have not yet ascertained the true extent of his medication condition?
Luis Nery claims that he inadvertently consumed substantial amounts of beef that led to him testing positive for a steroid.
Whereas, Luis Ortiz made a premeditated decision to consume a banned substance, but failed to disclose it.
The situations are entirely different, unless you can explain their similarities to me?
I agree.. both different cases.. i use the word 'fair' very very loosely..
Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 08:38
by SaadOffTheDeck
Very benevolent of Wilder.
Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 09:30
by chinarich
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 06:08
chinarich wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 05:25In boxing we are never going to have a single authority but I think there has to be unanimity on how VADA / WADA failed tests are handled otherwise it is farcical. Boxers who fail a drug test need to be banned from all boxing activity not just by one organisation...
I’m not disagreeing with your sentiments, but…
In relation to the sport of boxing, VADA simply administers the WADA code (protocol) for their anti-doping tests, which means that they follow the expected test procedure to monitor WADA’s prohibited list of banned substances. However, it’s not their responsibility to determine guilt or impose punishments. All they do is provide the evidence.
It’s the duty of the sport’s governing bodies to determine guilt and then penalise boxers for failing anti-doping tests.
I’m not saying that I agree with this approach, but it is what it is.
Yes, I know, which is why I said that there has to unanimous agreement on a ban between the main sanctioning organisations. Of course this will never happen, but it
should
Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 12:06
by asdfjkl
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 07:33
asdfjkl wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 07:02
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 06:18
That’s the crux of my conundrum… apparently the WBC and VADA did not know about the medical condition or the medication that Luis Ortiz took prior to him entering training camp for the Deontay Wilder fight.
Luis Ortiz did not declare this information.
I’d like you to prove that the Cuban’s medication and health condition was communicated to both the WBC and VADA prior to him agreeing to the Wilder fight.
For all I know Ortiz might have indeed been prescribed his medication prior to signing-up for the Wilder fight, but if he didn’t disclose it to anyone then he should still be punished for failing to follow procedure.
It’s also abundantly clear that the extent/justification of Luis Ortiz’s alleged medical condition has not been ascertained, because the WBC have openly admitted that they need to perform tests to determine whether or not he’s actually medically fit enough to compete.
Surely the status of Luis Ortiz’s health would have been measured when they supposedly verified the medical justification for him to consume banned substances, but this clearly doesn’t appear to be the case?
Vada tested him regularly, and now all of a sudden they didn't know, what kind of compagnie is this :s?
Doug Fischer, Dan Rafael and Stephen "Breadman" Edwards have all commented on the fact that the vast majority of fighters enrolled in the WBC’s “Clean Boxing” program aren’t actually tested out-of-competition.
According to the WBC, for the first three months' of activity of the CBP during 2017, “only” 28 fighters from eleven countries were tested out-of-competition. Only 19 fighters were tested for the previous three months.
I intentionally used the word “only”, because there are actually seventeen weight divisions in professional boxing. And there are at least 272 boxers enrolled in this program.
You can’t pretend something to be true if you’re unable to substantiate it.
Simply put: you’ve alleged something to being true without possessing any evidence whatsoever.
Well, it would be easy to proof the opposite right? But appearantly nobody can.
Is this also the reason why Wilder didn't sign anything when his lab was suspended? Because he didn't want to be tested by any other lab? He could easely have proven me wrong when I predicted that many times and already several months beforehand, but he didn't for obvious reasons.
Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 12:11
by Enlightened-One
asdfjkl wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 12:06
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 07:33
asdfjkl wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 07:02
Vada tested him regularly, and now all of a sudden they didn't know, what kind of compagnie is this :s?
Doug Fischer, Dan Rafael and Stephen "Breadman" Edwards have all commented on the fact that the vast majority of fighters enrolled in the WBC’s “Clean Boxing” program aren’t actually tested out-of-competition.
According to the WBC, for the first three months' of activity of the CBP during 2017, “only” 28 fighters from eleven countries were tested out-of-competition. Only 19 fighters were tested for the previous three months.
I intentionally used the word “only”, because there are actually seventeen weight divisions in professional boxing. And there are at least 272 boxers enrolled in this program.
You can’t pretend something to be true if you’re unable to substantiate it.
Simply put: you’ve alleged something to being true without possessing any evidence whatsoever.
Well, it would be easy to proof the opposite right? But appearantly nobody can.
Is this also the reason why Wilder didn't sign anything when his lab was suspended? Because he didn't want to be tested by any other lab? He could easely have proven me wrong when I predicted that many times and already several months beforehand, but he didn't for obvious reasons.
The WBC publish reports every three months detailing the fighters that have been tested out-of-competition by VADA as part of their CBP and Luis Ortiz's name wasn't included in any of them. So there's no proof of the Cuban being tested regularly by VADA.
You're the one that's made the claims that you cannot substantiate.
I’m not interested in falling for red herring debating tactics until you’ve provided evidence to substantiate your original claim.
Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 12:36
by asdfjkl
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 12:11
asdfjkl wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 12:06
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 07:33
Doug Fischer, Dan Rafael and Stephen "Breadman" Edwards have all commented on the fact that the vast majority of fighters enrolled in the WBC’s “Clean Boxing” program aren’t actually tested out-of-competition.
According to the WBC, for the first three months' of activity of the CBP during 2017, “only” 28 fighters from eleven countries were tested out-of-competition. Only 19 fighters were tested for the previous three months.
I intentionally used the word “only”, because there are actually seventeen weight divisions in professional boxing. And there are at least 272 boxers enrolled in this program.
You can’t pretend something to be true if you’re unable to substantiate it.
Simply put: you’ve alleged something to being true without possessing any evidence whatsoever.
Well, it would be easy to proof the opposite right? But appearantly nobody can.
Is this also the reason why Wilder didn't sign anything when his lab was suspended? Because he didn't want to be tested by any other lab? He could easely have proven me wrong when I predicted that many times and already several months beforehand, but he didn't for obvious reasons.
The WBC publish reports every three months detailing the fighters that have been tested out-of-competition by VADA as part of their CBP and Luis Ortiz's name wasn't included in any of them. So there's no proof of the Cuban being tested regularly by VADA.
You're the one that's made the claims that you cannot substantiate.
I’m not interested in falling for red herring debating tactics until you’ve provided evidence to substantiate your original claim.
Could you show me ?
Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 12:51
by tiny_acres
All I can say is Boxrec has more fukcing DRUG EXPERTS than the American Medical association.
Over half the fukcing members here think there damned medical experts.
Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 13:17
by Enlightened-One
asdfjkl wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 12:36
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 12:11
asdfjkl wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 12:06
Well, it would be easy to proof the opposite right? But appearantly nobody can.
Is this also the reason why Wilder didn't sign anything when his lab was suspended? Because he didn't want to be tested by any other lab? He could easely have proven me wrong when I predicted that many times and already several months beforehand, but he didn't for obvious reasons.
The WBC publish reports every three months detailing the fighters that have been tested out-of-competition by VADA as part of their CBP and Luis Ortiz's name wasn't included in any of them. So there's no proof of the Cuban being tested regularly by VADA.
You're the one that's made the claims that you cannot substantiate.
I’m not interested in falling for red herring debating tactics until you’ve provided evidence to substantiate your original claim.
Could you show me ?
http://www.worldboxingnews.net/2017/01/ ... bp-in-2016
http://www.worldboxingnews.net/2017/04/ ... -evaluated
http://wbcboxing.com/wbceng/news/8939-w ... ng-report1
Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 13:47
by asdfjkl
Lol,
http://vada-testing.org/luis-ortiz/
Ortiz wasn't even ranked by the WBC, because they knew Wilder didn't want to face him anyway, only bums make it to the WBC list.
So no wonder the WBC didn't list him.
Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 14:34
by candyslim
Maybe they achieved what they set out to achieve and don't feel the need to twist the knife any further. Just a thought.
Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 15:01
by greg
..at least three things seem to be obvious:
- lack of coordination between the alphabets
- lack of transparency in the decision making process
- "difference strokes for different folks" strategy
Re: Luis Ortiz Will Not Be Suspended, Retains His Ranking
Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 17:19
by Boxing Prospect
Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 08:20
WBC let Luis Nery walk.. keep his belt, no suspension.. all he has to do is rematch Yamanaka..
It's only fair they let Ortiz walk on this occasion or they would have come under pressure..
Nery is a good Mexican boy, the WBC can trust him. He's not someone who ran away from his country for his country, people and President