BoxRec

i have to say the first time i saw how leonard looked for the fight against hagler the first thought through my mind was "he juiced up".

IMO there is no way he gained enough weight to meet hagler and still be as ripped as he was for that fight without using steroids.
he was never that big but always in great shape, so how does someone gain that kind of muscle mass in such a short time?

for someone who has always worked out and reached peak condition many times, it's not possible to gain additional pounds of muscle naturally in a few months. if you're already around your natural genetic peak, it takes years to add even a pound of muscle naturally.

you can get fat very quickly, but not build muscle and be chiseled like Leonard was. i would bet anything he did.

Without testing someone for substances you can never know for sure. My thinking is I doubt it. There weren't many athletes in his day using them save for body builders, power lifters and some football players.

GreenShadow wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 16:04 i have to say the first time i saw how leonard looked for the fight against hagler the first thought through my mind was "he juiced up".

IMO there is no way he gained enough weight to meet hagler and still be as ripped as he was for that fight without using steroids.
he was never that big but always in great shape, so how does someone gain that kind of muscle mass in such a short time?

for someone who has always worked out and reached peak condition many times, it's not possible to gain additional pounds of muscle naturally in a few months. if you're already around your natural genetic peak, it takes years to add even a pound of muscle naturally.

you can get fat very quickly, but not build muscle and be chiseled like Leonard was. i would bet anything he did.

13lbs of muscle isn't hard to gain for an athlete who already diets to make weight.

drunkenpiper36 wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 16:20 Without testing someone for substances you can never know for sure. My thinking is I doubt it. There weren't many athletes in his day using them save for body builders, power lifters and some football players.

In 1986 I knew 7 kids that were doing it on a small high school football team and 1 kid trying to get bigger for women.

No, he wasn't.

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 16:31 13lbs of muscle isn't hard to gain for an athlete who already diets to make weight.

it is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to gain that much muscle not just weight, but muscle in 5 years never mind a few months. especially for a well conditioned athlete who by virtue of their conditioning is already at their natural maximum.

fighters move up and down in weight a lot, and lose and gain a lot of weight in a short time, but it is not muscle, it is fat.

don't take my word for it. seek out authoritative people and sources and you will discover what i am saying is true.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 16:35

drunkenpiper36 wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 16:20 Without testing someone for substances you can never know for sure. My thinking is I doubt it. There weren't many athletes in his day using them save for body builders, power lifters and some football players.

In 1986 I knew 7 kids that were doing it on a small high school football team and 1 kid trying to get bigger for women.

Interesting.

drunkenpiper36 wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 16:20 Without testing someone for substances you can never know for sure. My thinking is I doubt it. There weren't many athletes in his day using them save for body builders, power lifters and some football players.

sports were rife with steroid use back then as they are now.

you don't move up in weight and look like that..........unless you are holyfield, because he juiced up as well.

I'd say so. I distinctly remember that Tommy Hearns said "maaan, you're huge" before their rematch in 1989 for their 168 lb fight

We are talking about 9 pounds in the course of three years. That isn't strange at all. There are a ton of other guys who have done that much and more in a shorter period of time. That is quite an accusation to be take seriously with any evidence.

GreenShadow wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 16:56

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 16:31 13lbs of muscle isn't hard to gain for an athlete who already diets to make weight.

it is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to gain that much muscle not just weight, but muscle in 5 years never mind a few months. especially for a well conditioned athlete who by virtue of their conditioning is already at their natural maximum.

fighters move up and down in weight a lot, and lose and gain a lot of weight in a short time, but it is not muscle, it is fat.

don't take my word for it. seek out authoritative people and sources and you will discover what i am saying is true.

13lbs of muscle in 5 years is impossible?

Behave yourself

I gained at least twice that in 6 months my first serious venture into lifting.

GreenShadow wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 16:56

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 16:31 13lbs of muscle isn't hard to gain for an athlete who already diets to make weight.

it is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to gain that much muscle not just weight, but muscle in 5 years never mind a few months. especially for a well conditioned athlete who by virtue of their conditioning is already at their natural maximum.

fighters move up and down in weight a lot, and lose and gain a lot of weight in a short time, but it is not muscle, it is fat.

don't take my word for it. seek out authoritative people and sources and you will discover what i am saying is true.

How about from my own personal experience??? In the 70's I worked out in a gym where a lot of famous body builders trained. Boxers, Football players, and other athletes trained there as well. Many athletes took steroids at the time because they were legal until they found out they destroy your body and have a lot of side effects. Dianabol was a very popular commercial product. People would ask me what I took and try to sell me stuff. They generally believed me when I said I wouldn't take a steroid unless it was prescribed by a doctor who I really believed in. In fact I never even took vitamin pills or supplements and don't believe in them either. They don't help. I believe in eating, sleeping, and training right. Having a healthy life style which doesn't include drinking, smoking, drugs, meds (because we're the most over-medicated nation in the world), poor time management and a general lack of planning. Workouts have to be well planned, tweaked, and changed up frequently because everyone's body is different.

But as far as building extra muscle if you're already at your optimum weight and strength??? ... Roy Jones put on about 20 extra pounds in short order to fight John Ruiz.. Roy never used steroids or PED's accept by accident when they were in over-the-counter supplements he was taking -- so he was rightfully excused for "inadvertent usage" -- although that designation is sometimes abused by wealthy boxers who can buy their way out of trouble. As far as Leonard gaining 13 pounds of optimal strength for Hagler? SRL achieved that very easily without PEDs -- by a superior nutrition program complete with a master chef cooking his meals to perfection... sleeping really good and very consistently.. and superbly coached strength training regimens by world class weight-lifting experts coaching him every day.. He was making millions so why not go whole hog???

Resistance training of ANY kind increases bone mineral density... it strengthens tendons, ligaments and connective tissue... and makes muscles bigger, stronger, and more responsive... even if you're only doing push-ups, pull-ups, sit-ups, back extensions, and other body weight exercises you're going to get bigger the stronger you get.. You're going to pack on pounds.. But weight training is better.. Doing hundreds of push-ups at a crack after 10 years of doing push-ups is nonsense -- why not just do quarter-turn dumbbell presses and keep adding weight as you get stronger and stronger??? You don't have to do a million reps.. You isolate the triceps better in more of a punching motion and you incline the bench slightly to get a more optimum angle.

roy jones most certainly did Peds to gain those 20 pounds.......going by the rational that jones or leonard put on that kind of muscle easily, then if they wanted to they could just keep on training and put on another 20 pounds and then another 20 pounds, they could get just as big as schwarzenegger if they wanted to, right? or is there a limit to how big they could get? if there is a limit, what would be the reason for the limit?

someone in top shape is already at their limit and the only way to break through that limit is to use PEDs.

i'm a little surprised at how naive and ill informed all of you are about what it takes to gain muscle.

you all think you are arguing with me but actually you are arguing with known science.

when it comes to MUSCLE gain i'm not spouting opinion, i am stating proven, known scientific fact. research it or be quite.

if you even think through your logic it will lead you to a conclusion that you will know is ridiculous.

i've already mentioned it...but here is a clue for you all to start with..........is there an end to natural muscle gain?

start there and think it through.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 23:17 I gained at least twice that in 6 months my first serious venture into lifting.

yeah....and what happened six months after that? and if you kept at it what would have happened another six months after that, you'd never stop gaining 26 pounds of muscle every six months?

after you stopped making those kinds of gains and you then had to move up in weight, what, Pray tell, would you have to do then?

GreenShadow wrote: ↑18 Nov 2017, 09:12

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 23:17 I gained at least twice that in 6 months my first serious venture into lifting.

yeah....and what happened six months after that? and if you kept at it what would have happened another six months after that, you'd never stop gaining 26 pounds of muscle every six months?

after you stopped making those kinds of gains and you then had to move up in weight, what, Pray tell, would you have to do then?

Honey bunny, you said it was impossible. I went from 185 to 235 in about a year, with a 6 pack. That was it. Possible? Yes it is cock breath

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: ↑18 Nov 2017, 09:34

GreenShadow wrote: ↑18 Nov 2017, 09:12

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 23:17 I gained at least twice that in 6 months my first serious venture into lifting.

yeah....and what happened six months after that? and if you kept at it what would have happened another six months after that, you'd never stop gaining 26 pounds of muscle every six months?

after you stopped making those kinds of gains and you then had to move up in weight, what, Pray tell, would you have to do then?

Honey bunny, you said it was impossible. I went from 185 to 235 in about a year, with a 6 pack. That was it. Possible? Yes it is cock breath

so you are another one who has trouble understanding the written word. once you have reached your natural limit it is impossible. but you'll ignore that just as you have the other many times it's been stated.
i notice you don't address the point i put to you though.

SRL weighed 158lb for Hagler in 1986, SRL had been 153lb as early as 1979 in one fight. Physically he didn't look that much different against Kalule in 1981 where he was 153lb again than he did against Hagler so nothing really stands out as being a drugs cheat IMO.

Controversial wrote: ↑18 Nov 2017, 11:16 SRL weighed 158lb for Hagler in 1986, SRL had been 153lb as early as 1979 in one fight. Physically he didn't look that much different against Kalule in 1981 where he was 153lb again than he did against Hagler so nothing really stands out as being a drugs cheat IMO.

thank you for a sensible reply. i'm going to check into that.

GreenShadow wrote: ↑18 Nov 2017, 11:24

Controversial wrote: ↑18 Nov 2017, 11:16 SRL weighed 158lb for Hagler in 1986, SRL had been 153lb as early as 1979 in one fight. Physically he didn't look that much different against Kalule in 1981 where he was 153lb again than he did against Hagler so nothing really stands out as being a drugs cheat IMO.

thank you for a sensible reply. i'm going to check into that.

Everyone else's reply was just as sensible. Leonard likely walked around at 158 before draining to begin with. And even if he didn't, gaining that amount of muscle in a few years isn't impossible without PEDs. It's only impossible for weaklings unwilling to put in the work and blame others' success on PEDs.

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑18 Nov 2017, 13:56

GreenShadow wrote: ↑18 Nov 2017, 11:24

Controversial wrote: ↑18 Nov 2017, 11:16 SRL weighed 158lb for Hagler in 1986, SRL had been 153lb as early as 1979 in one fight. Physically he didn't look that much different against Kalule in 1981 where he was 153lb again than he did against Hagler so nothing really stands out as being a drugs cheat IMO.

thank you for a sensible reply. i'm going to check into that.

Everyone else's reply was just as sensible. Leonard likely walked around at 158 before draining to begin with. And even if he didn't, gaining that amount of muscle in a few years isn't impossible without PEDs. It's only impossible for weaklings unwilling to put in the work and blame others' success on PEDs.

shakes head.

GreenShadow wrote: ↑18 Nov 2017, 14:03

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑18 Nov 2017, 13:56

GreenShadow wrote: ↑18 Nov 2017, 11:24

thank you for a sensible reply. i'm going to check into that.

Everyone else's reply was just as sensible. Leonard likely walked around at 158 before draining to begin with. And even if he didn't, gaining that amount of muscle in a few years isn't impossible without PEDs. It's only impossible for weaklings unwilling to put in the work and blame others' success on PEDs.

shakes head.

Hearns looked just as muscular if not more than Leonard at 160. They both were big welters to begin with.

former footballplayer and movie actor Woody Strode use do like a thousand push-ups a day.
He once said when he started doing that when he was in college he put on 20 pounds.
He did 1000 push-ups a day till he turned 40 yrs old then he tappered it to 500 a day
( he would rest after every 100 push-ups)
You ever see that film SPARTICUS ?
man he was ripped .

I doubt it......

but the "man in the moon" folks are everywhere these days. Nothing is real, everything is a conspiracy.....


REM song tells it like it is for so many.