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Would Jr beating Groves make him better than Sr ?
Posted: 28 Nov 2017, 13:03
by Andrew
Had a chat with my mate about this today.
I think there's a case for this as Groves is top 2 or 3 at the weight class right now.
I see Eubank Srs best wins as Benn and Watson.
As much as Sr beat Benn first time. Watson and Graham were considered the best two middleweights in Britain at the time. There were many better middleweights around at the time.
Watson clearly won the first Eubank fight and was winning the second until the brutal ending and aftermath. As good as both fights were Mike McCallum a true world class middleweight (who Eubank wanted no part of ) beat Watson comfortably the year before.
What are people's thoughts on this ?
Re: Would Jr beating Groves make him better than Sr ?
Posted: 28 Nov 2017, 13:11
by Tomasino
It's a good question.
Not quite I'd say but he could end up surpassing the old mans achievements with a few more wins. I do think Old Chris was a better fighter on his day but I may be wrong. Time will tell.
Re: Would Jr beating Groves make him better than Sr ?
Posted: 28 Nov 2017, 13:11
by bigjack
Not sure really as i see Degale as Grove's best win and that was when both were fairly inexperienced pro's,and it was close enough to go either way,both Eubanks snr's best wins were conclusive ko's,he may have been behind in both but pulled out the ko's when needed.
Re: Would Jr beating Groves make him better than Sr ?
Posted: 28 Nov 2017, 13:28
by jamamb
ppl underrate srs cv. cant brush aside benn and watson.stronger combo than any of gennadys 2 for example
Re: Would Jr beating Groves make him better than Sr ?
Posted: 28 Nov 2017, 13:34
by SaadOffTheDeck
Not even close.
Re: Would Jr beating Groves make him better than Sr ?
Posted: 28 Nov 2017, 13:57
by KiwiRider
Two more top #5 wins after Groves would do it for me.
Abraham was supposed to be a big win for Jr, but that was only on paper. I don't count that as a big win.
Re: Would Jr beating Groves make him better than Sr ?
Posted: 28 Nov 2017, 14:30
by Bard of Boxrec
junior... senior who has the better, foot movement?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPlQpGeTbIE
Re: Would Jr beating Groves make him better than Sr ?
Posted: 28 Nov 2017, 14:54
by Oiky
Not just yet , after a few more good wins then maybe
Re: Would Jr beating Groves make him better than Sr ?
Posted: 28 Nov 2017, 18:28
by ewenhay
Not for me. Benn and Watson both much better wins than Groves.
Re: Would Jr beating Groves make him better than Sr ?
Posted: 28 Nov 2017, 18:37
by boxingknockout
Eubank Snr was a great character with an incredible chin. But in boxing terms he was well overrated. He struggled and ‘lost’ a lot of fights and whilst the performance against Benn was super courageous, Eubank over performed that night and was in the zone. The rematch Benn thoroughly deserved. Eubank was basically a British champion.
Re: Would Jr beating Groves make him better than Sr ?
Posted: 29 Nov 2017, 01:29
by davie
Naandrew wrote: ↑28 Nov 2017, 13:03
I think there's a case for this as
Groves is top 2 or 3 at the weight class right now.
There were many better middleweights around at the time.
Using the first statement in bold is a meaningless comparison given what you said in that line below.
The talent around at the time Eubank was a Middleweight was outrageous. If he beat Benn when he was, let say, 9th best at the weight that's simply because there were 8 other really good 160lb fighters about at the time
That's the 1990 top 10
Michael Nunn
Julian Jackson
Sumbu Kalambay
Mike McCallum
Steve Collins
Chris Eubank
Roberto Duran
Michael Watson
Nigel Benn
Reggie Johnson
Barkley had just fallen out of the rankings, Herol Graham had just lost to Jackson,
Toney, McClellan, Hopkins and Jones Jr were about to crash the party as Eubank moved up to 168
It was a talent packed era
Re: Would Jr beating Groves make him better than Sr ?
Posted: 29 Nov 2017, 01:39
by Tanzio
It would be a huge win for this era. I do not think that he would surpass Sr but It would put him within sight of it.
Re: Would Jr beating Groves make him better than Sr ?
Posted: 29 Nov 2017, 03:19
by Andrew
davie wrote: ↑29 Nov 2017, 01:29
Naandrew wrote: ↑28 Nov 2017, 13:03
I think there's a case for this as
Groves is top 2 or 3 at the weight class right now.
There were many better middleweights around at the time.
Using the first statement in bold is a meaningless comparison given what you said in that line below.
The talent around at the time Eubank was a Middleweight was outrageous. If he beat Benn when he was, let say, 9th best at the weight that's simply because there were 8 other really good 160lb fighters about at the time
That's the 1990 top 10
Michael Nunn
Julian Jackson
Sumbu Kalambay
Mike McCallum
Steve Collins
Chris Eubank
Roberto Duran
Michael Watson
Nigel Benn
Reggie Johnson
Barkley had just fallen out of the rankings, Herol Graham had just lost to Jackson,
Toney, McClellan, Hopkins and Jones Jr were about to crash the party as Eubank moved up to 168
It was a talent packed era
Very true not disputing any of that. But then Sr wanted no part of any of them. I'm particular Nunn,McCallum and Herol Graham.
Re: Would Jr beating Groves make him better than Sr ?
Posted: 29 Nov 2017, 06:38
by davie
Naandrew wrote: ↑29 Nov 2017, 03:19
davie wrote: ↑29 Nov 2017, 01:29
Naandrew wrote: ↑28 Nov 2017, 13:03
I think there's a case for this as
Groves is top 2 or 3 at the weight class right now.
There were many better middleweights around at the time.
Using the first statement in bold is a meaningless comparison given what you said in that line below.
The talent around at the time Eubank was a Middleweight was outrageous. If he beat Benn when he was, let say, 9th best at the weight that's simply because there were 8 other really good 160lb fighters about at the time
That's the 1990 top 10
Michael Nunn
Julian Jackson
Sumbu Kalambay
Mike McCallum
Steve Collins
Chris Eubank
Roberto Duran
Michael Watson
Nigel Benn
Reggie Johnson
Barkley had just fallen out of the rankings, Herol Graham had just lost to Jackson,
Toney, McClellan, Hopkins and Jones Jr were about to crash the party as Eubank moved up to 168
It was a talent packed era
Very true not disputing any of that. But then Sr wanted no part of any of them. I'm particular Nunn,McCallum and Herol Graham.
Thats true.
In general, I'd say Groves would be a big step along the way. But he won't rank with his dad quite yet.
Re: Would Jr beating Groves make him better than Sr ?
Posted: 29 Nov 2017, 15:19
by Coco
Groves isn't Benn or Watson, maybe Rochianno
Re: Would Jr beating Groves make him better than Sr ?
Posted: 29 Nov 2017, 16:42
by Deserter
Coco wrote: ↑29 Nov 2017, 15:19
Groves isn't Benn or Watson, maybe Rochianno
As much as I enjoyed watching Watson back in the day I have to say I think he tends to get over-rated. Apart from beating a very raw Benn, what's the best win on his record?
Re: Would Jr beating Groves make him better than Sr ?
Posted: 29 Nov 2017, 19:57
by ElJefe
davie wrote: ↑29 Nov 2017, 01:29
Naandrew wrote: ↑28 Nov 2017, 13:03
I think there's a case for this as
Groves is top 2 or 3 at the weight class right now.
There were many better middleweights around at the time.
Using the first statement in bold is a meaningless comparison given what you said in that line below.
The talent around at the time Eubank was a Middleweight was outrageous. If he beat Benn when he was, let say, 9th best at the weight that's simply because there were 8 other really good 160lb fighters about at the time
That's the 1990 top 10
Michael Nunn
Julian Jackson
Sumbu Kalambay
Mike McCallum
Steve Collins
Chris Eubank
Roberto Duran
Michael Watson
Nigel Benn
Reggie Johnson
Barkley had just fallen out of the rankings, Herol Graham had just lost to Jackson,
Toney, McClellan, Hopkins and Jones Jr were about to crash the party as Eubank moved up to 168
It was a talent packed era
What a brilliant group of fighters that is.
Re: Would Jr beating Groves make him better than Sr ?
Posted: 29 Nov 2017, 20:04
by Taansend
Coco wrote: ↑29 Nov 2017, 15:19
Groves isn't Benn or Watson, maybe Rochianno
The fight against Graciano Rocchigiani was a great win in my humble opinion.
Undefeated ex world champion in his backyard. The atmosphere, even on telly, was incredible.
Jnr blasting out Groves would be a step but there's several more steps till he overtakes his dad.
Re: Would Jr beating Groves make him better than Sr ?
Posted: 30 Nov 2017, 02:53
by lillywhite14
Taansend wrote: ↑29 Nov 2017, 20:04
Coco wrote: ↑29 Nov 2017, 15:19
Groves isn't Benn or Watson, maybe Rochianno
The fight against Graciano Rocchigiani was a great win in my humble opinion.
Undefeated ex world champion in his backyard. The atmosphere, even on telly, was incredible.
Jnr blasting out Groves would be a step but there's several more steps till he overtakes his dad.
Always had you as a smart cookie Taansend ( apart from your football club )
That was a great win for Eubank
Re: Would Jr beating Groves make him better than Sr ?
Posted: 30 Nov 2017, 03:49
by Coco
Deserter wrote: ↑29 Nov 2017, 16:42
Coco wrote: ↑29 Nov 2017, 15:19
Groves isn't Benn or Watson, maybe Rochianno
As much as I enjoyed watching Watson back in the day I have to say I think he tends to get over-rated. Apart from beating a very raw Benn, what's the best win on his record?
Benn was his best win, then Watson, then the German, Wharton was one of his best performances.
Other than that his reign was dire, he had a draw against Benn in the rematch but had controversial dexesions against Schummer, Amarzal, Ray Close, people forget how bad many of his defences were.
Then he showed us his true measure when he was up against it against JC and the CAT
Re: Would Jr beating Groves make him better than Sr ?
Posted: 30 Nov 2017, 03:51
by Coco
Taansend wrote: ↑29 Nov 2017, 20:04
Coco wrote: ↑29 Nov 2017, 15:19
Groves isn't Benn or Watson, maybe Rochianno
The fight against Graciano Rocchigiani was a great win in my humble opinion.
Undefeated ex world champion in his backyard. The atmosphere, even on telly, was incredible.
Jnr blasting out Groves would be a step but there's several more steps till he overtakes his dad.
One of his best wins yea, but is the German any better than Groves?
Re: Would Jr beating Groves make him better than Sr ?
Posted: 30 Nov 2017, 04:12
by mickey1975
Coco wrote: ↑30 Nov 2017, 03:49
Deserter wrote: ↑29 Nov 2017, 16:42
Coco wrote: ↑29 Nov 2017, 15:19
Groves isn't Benn or Watson, maybe Rochianno
As much as I enjoyed watching Watson back in the day I have to say I think he tends to get over-rated. Apart from beating a very raw Benn, what's the best win on his record?
Benn was his best win, then Watson, then the German, Wharton was one of his best performances.
Other than that his reign was dire, he had a draw against Benn in the rematch but had controversial dexesions against Schummer, Amarzal, Ray Close, people forget how bad many of his defences were.
Then he showed us his true measure when he was up against it against JC and the CAT
I'm guessing he's saying Watson was overrated.
Re: Would Jr beating Groves make him better than Sr ?
Posted: 30 Nov 2017, 04:32
by Deserter
mickey1975 wrote: ↑30 Nov 2017, 04:12
Coco wrote: ↑30 Nov 2017, 03:49
Deserter wrote: ↑29 Nov 2017, 16:42
As much as I enjoyed watching Watson back in the day I have to say I think he tends to get over-rated. Apart from beating a very raw Benn, what's the best win on his record?
Benn was his best win, then Watson, then the German, Wharton was one of his best performances.
Other than that his reign was dire, he had a draw against Benn in the rematch but had controversial dexesions against Schummer, Amarzal, Ray Close, people forget how bad many of his defences were.
Then he showed us his true measure when he was up against it against JC and the CAT
I'm guessing he's saying Watson was overrated.
Correct. If Watson had been American we'd barely be referencing him.
Re: Would Jr beating Groves make him better than Sr ?
Posted: 30 Nov 2017, 04:39
by Coco
Ok where would you rate Watson in regard to Eubanks victories?
Are you saying he is more the level of Sherry, Thornton and Giminez?
Re: Would Jr beating Groves make him better than Sr ?
Posted: 30 Nov 2017, 04:45
by Deserter
Coco wrote: ↑30 Nov 2017, 04:39
Ok where would you rate Watson in regard to Eubanks victories?
Are you saying he is more the level of Sherry, Thornton and Giminez?
I'm not really talking about Watson's placing in direct relation to Eubank's record, more in general terms. If we were looking at an American fighter who had beaten that version of Benn, been soundly beaten by McCallum and then lost twice to Eubank, he'd barely get a mention on these boards.