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When cherypick goes wrong; Cotto tasted some of Martinez's bitterness
Posted: 03 Dec 2017, 07:19
by apollo creed
Yeah I thought this is gonna be an easy one for Cotto to look good in his last career fight but it went pretty damn wrong. Cotto cherrypicked an old-handicapped Martinez and he got a big succes but this time he screwed it.
Was Cotto a successful hypejob fighter? Yes and NO. Let's not forget that Cotto's best performances were against Floyd and Canelo although he lost both those fights. Cotto must regret he didn't retire after the fight Kamegai.
Re: When cherypick goes wrong; Cotto tasted some of Martinez's bitterness
Posted: 03 Dec 2017, 08:29
by greg
..proverbial "what goes around comes around"..
Re: When cherypick goes wrong; Cotto tasted some of Martinez's bitterness
Posted: 03 Dec 2017, 08:59
by apollo creed
greg wrote: ↑03 Dec 2017, 08:29
..proverbial "what goes around comes around"..
Yup but let's not forget that Cotto made a lot of money in his career. He's financial secured.
Re: When cherypick goes wrong; Cotto tasted some of Martinez's bitterness
Posted: 03 Dec 2017, 09:10
by Tanzio
It was a close fight. Cotto was not as finished as SMartinez was. This was competitive. Cotto essentially passed the torch. I don’t get why some people considered this some kind of conspiracy.
Good matchmaking is not a crime.
Re: When cherypick goes wrong; Cotto tasted some of Martinez's bitterness
Posted: 03 Dec 2017, 09:25
by caldo2025
I'm not sure that i'd call this a cherry pick. Honestly, when I first heard about this fight being signed and billed as Cotto's last fight I was scratching my head and was thinking "Why the hell would he pick Ali of all people?". The reason being, Ali is lightening fast and skilled and was on his way to being highly regarded until getting caught by Vargas.
I don't know if Cotto trained like he was already retired or not but it seemed like every time Ali touched Cotto, he buzzed him. I just thought that Cotto was catching a desperate kid that couldn't afford to lose again. That's not who you want to fight on your way out imo but credit to him for not choosing a soft one. I think that you need to give Ali more credit.
Re: When cherypick goes wrong; Cotto tasted some of Martinez's bitterness
Posted: 03 Dec 2017, 09:47
by apollo creed
caldo2025 wrote: ↑03 Dec 2017, 09:25
I'm not sure that i'd call this a cherry pick. Honestly, when I first heard about this fight being signed and billed as Cotto's last fight I was scratching my head and was thinking "Why the hell would he pick Ali of all people?". The reason being, Ali is lightening fast and skilled and was on his way to being highly regarded until getting caught by Vargas.
I don't know if Cotto trained like he was already retired or not but it seemed like every time Ali touched Cotto, he buzzed him. I just thought that Cotto was catching a desperate kid that couldn't afford to lose again. That's not who you want to fight on your way out imo but credit to him for not choosing a soft one. I think that you need to give Ali more credit.
That was a clear case of cherrypicking go wrong. Cotto and his team picked Ali - an 147 pounder who was stopped by Vargas thinking he's gonna be easy work. If Cotto wanted his last fight to be remembered as a solid match he would've picked a decent 154 pounder. Don't forget that he wanted Mikey Garcia.
Re: When cherypick goes wrong; Cotto tasted some of Martinez's bitterness
Posted: 03 Dec 2017, 10:01
by Enlightened-One
apollo creed wrote: ↑03 Dec 2017, 07:19
Yeah I thought this is gonna be an easy one for Cotto to look good in his last career fight but it went pretty damn wrong. Cotto cherrypicked an old-handicapped Martinez and he got a big succes but this time he screwed it.
Was Cotto a successful hypejob fighter? Yes and NO. Let's not forget that Cotto's best performances were against Floyd and Canelo although he lost both those fights. Cotto must regret he didn't retire after the fight Kamegai.
Martinez was the betting favourite against Cotto. FACT! This renders the entirely of your point as being irrelevant.
End of thread!
Re: When cherypick goes wrong; Cotto tasted some of Martinez's bitterness
Posted: 03 Dec 2017, 12:39
by apollo creed
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑03 Dec 2017, 10:01
apollo creed wrote: ↑03 Dec 2017, 07:19
Yeah I thought this is gonna be an easy one for Cotto to look good in his last career fight but it went pretty damn wrong. Cotto cherrypicked an old-handicapped Martinez and he got a big succes but this time he screwed it.
Was Cotto a successful hypejob fighter? Yes and NO. Let's not forget that Cotto's best performances were against Floyd and Canelo although he lost both those fights. Cotto must regret he didn't retire after the fight Kamegai.
Martinez was the betting favourite against Cotto. FACT! This renders the entirely of your point as being irrelevant.
End of thread!
Calm down dude! Cotto knew very well why he signed to fight Martinez but this time he went wrong with Ali!
Re: When cherypick goes wrong; Cotto tasted some of Martinez's bitterness
Posted: 03 Dec 2017, 12:58
by Mexi-Box
apollo creed wrote: ↑03 Dec 2017, 12:39
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑03 Dec 2017, 10:01
apollo creed wrote: ↑03 Dec 2017, 07:19
Yeah I thought this is gonna be an easy one for Cotto to look good in his last career fight but it went pretty damn wrong. Cotto cherrypicked an old-handicapped Martinez and he got a big succes but this time he screwed it.
Was Cotto a successful hypejob fighter? Yes and NO. Let's not forget that Cotto's best performances were against Floyd and Canelo although he lost both those fights. Cotto must regret he didn't retire after the fight Kamegai.
Martinez was the betting favourite against Cotto. FACT! This renders the entirely of your point as being irrelevant.
End of thread!
Calm down dude! Cotto knew very well why he signed to fight Martinez but this time he went wrong with Ali!
I can't believe the un-Enlightened one just owned you. You are so freaking wrong. Cotto was a huge underdog against Martinez. EVERYONE was saying Martinez would destroy him. That was no cherry-pick. Cotto had no idea what to expect because Martinez was still a p4p fighter and the lineal MW champ, like it or not.
Re: When cherypick goes wrong; Cotto tasted some of Martinez's bitterness
Posted: 03 Dec 2017, 13:32
by gilgamesh
The term "Cherry Pick" getting thrown around in a case like this annoys me. All things considered Cotto could've picked a much softer opponent than Sadam Ali for his final bout, and everybody would've been happy to see him win.
He picked a young guy who has talent, and gave him a harder fight than anybody anticipated. Didn't do Cotto any favors obviously, but it gave us a good fight for him to go out on.
Nothing to mock Cotto over. This is Boxing. That's how it goes. You win some, You lose some.
Re: When cherypick goes wrong; Cotto tasted some of Martinez's bitterness
Posted: 03 Dec 2017, 13:46
by apollo creed
It is what it is but Cotto didn't pick the right cherry this time.
Re: When cherypick goes wrong; Cotto tasted some of Martinez's bitterness
Posted: 03 Dec 2017, 13:54
by gilgamesh
He didn't pick a cherry at all. He picked a good, young fighter who had everything to gain.
Re: When cherypick goes wrong; Cotto tasted some of Martinez's bitterness
Posted: 03 Dec 2017, 14:05
by KiwiRider
It was a good final fight.
At least he didn't go out fighting some MMA guy who had never boxed before
Re: When cherypick goes wrong; Cotto tasted some of Martinez's bitterness
Posted: 03 Dec 2017, 14:07
by gilgamesh
KiwiRider wrote: ↑03 Dec 2017, 14:05
It was a good final fight.
At least he didn't go out fighting some MMA guy who had never boxed before
You think he wouldn't have if he could've? I'm sure he'd have happily traded his fight last night for a fight with Conor where he earned $100 Million dollars
Re: When cherypick goes wrong; Cotto tasted some of Martinez's bitterness
Posted: 03 Dec 2017, 14:12
by BAD INTENTIONS
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑03 Dec 2017, 10:01
apollo creed wrote: ↑03 Dec 2017, 07:19
Yeah I thought this is gonna be an easy one for Cotto to look good in his last career fight but it went pretty damn wrong. Cotto cherrypicked an old-handicapped Martinez and he got a big succes but this time he screwed it.
Was Cotto a successful hypejob fighter? Yes and NO. Let's not forget that Cotto's best performances were against Floyd and Canelo although he lost both those fights. Cotto must regret he didn't retire after the fight Kamegai.
Martinez was the betting favourite against Cotto. FACT! This renders the entirely of your point as being irrelevant.
End of thread!
I finally get to argue with u ...
Sorry buddy, an
assumed two-legged and healed Sergio Martinez was the heavy favorite.
However, this assumption seemed to be more about promotion than actual evidence.
From the time the fight was announced, there were rumors Martinez wasn’t close to 100%.
Many people who picked Martinez added the clause “if he’s healthy”.
I don’t have to consider this fight a cherry-pick, Martinez wanted $, so he said he was good.
Not Cotto’s fault.
But don’t look at that Martinez and call it a legitimate win. In a capitalist, bottom-line sense, yes.
But any “enlightened” discussion considers more than one factor.
Re: When cherypick goes wrong; Cotto tasted some of Martinez's bitterness
Posted: 03 Dec 2017, 14:14
by gilgamesh
I picked Cotto to win that night because I expect Martinez's knee was f*cked. Mainly because older guys in their late 30's don't ever seem to fully recover their athletic prowess following injuries like that. Especially in a case like Martinez where he'd badly injured his leg two fights in a row.
Nevertheless. It's a good win for Cotto, and he was the underdog coming in. Only Boxing insiders knew of Martinez's handicap he was bringing into the ring.
Re: When cherypick goes wrong; Cotto tasted some of Martinez's bitterness
Posted: 03 Dec 2017, 14:16
by KiwiRider
gilgamesh wrote: ↑03 Dec 2017, 14:07
KiwiRider wrote: ↑03 Dec 2017, 14:05
It was a good final fight.
At least he didn't go out fighting some MMA guy who had never boxed before
You think he wouldn't have if he could've? I'm sure he'd have happily traded his fight last night for a fight with Conor where he earned $100 Million dollars
I don't even want to think about that!
And I hope that nonsense stays dead.
Re: When cherypick goes wrong; Cotto tasted some of Martinez's bitterness
Posted: 03 Dec 2017, 14:18
by gilgamesh
What nonsense?
Freak show fights that attract a lot of media attention and money?
It'll stay dead for a while. They'll do another one somehow or another in about 10 or 20 years.
It wasn't the first time the public got sold on a Circus instead of a Sporting Event. Won't be the last.
Re: When cherypick goes wrong; Cotto tasted some of Martinez's bitterness
Posted: 03 Dec 2017, 14:19
by BAD INTENTIONS
KiwiRider wrote: ↑03 Dec 2017, 14:16
gilgamesh wrote: ↑03 Dec 2017, 14:07
KiwiRider wrote: ↑03 Dec 2017, 14:05
It was a good final fight.
At least he didn't go out fighting some MMA guy who had never boxed before
You think he wouldn't have if he could've? I'm sure he'd have happily traded his fight last night for a fight with Conor where he earned $100 Million dollars
I don't even want to think about that!
And I hope that nonsense stays dead.
What makes that fight nonsense?
All things considered, I think the McGregor fight carried much more validity than the Jerry Cooper fight.
Re: When cherypick goes wrong; Cotto tasted some of Martinez's bitterness
Posted: 03 Dec 2017, 14:30
by KiwiRider
gilgamesh wrote: ↑03 Dec 2017, 14:18
What nonsense?
Freak show fights that attract a lot of media attention and money?
It'll stay dead for a while. They'll do another one somehow or another in about 10 or 20 years.
It wasn't the first time the public got sold on a Circus instead of a Sporting Event. Won't be the last.
Oh, let them do it again, I wouldn't give a toss but let's call it a sideshow and not the pinicle of boxing. And let's have ONE thread about it, not 10,000
To me, the May/Mac was a sad goodbye for Floyd. Worse than his Berto goodbye.
Re: When cherypick goes wrong; Cotto tasted some of Martinez's bitterness
Posted: 03 Dec 2017, 14:32
by gilgamesh
KiwiRider wrote: ↑03 Dec 2017, 14:30
gilgamesh wrote: ↑03 Dec 2017, 14:18
What nonsense?
Freak show fights that attract a lot of media attention and money?
It'll stay dead for a while. They'll do another one somehow or another in about 10 or 20 years.
It wasn't the first time the public got sold on a Circus instead of a Sporting Event. Won't be the last.
Oh, let them do it again, I wouldn't give a toss but let's call it a sideshow and not the pinicle of boxing. And let's have ONE thread about it, not 10,000
To me, the May/Mac was a sad goodbye for Floyd. Worse than his Berto goodbye.
We
DID call it a sideshow. Promoters called it the Pinnacle of Boxing.
Promoters promote. They're just taking advantage of the gullibility of the general public. If you want to blame somebody for that farce, blame the Public for being so excited about an obvious mismatch.
Re: When cherypick goes wrong; Cotto tasted some of Martinez's bitterness
Posted: 03 Dec 2017, 17:24
by SaadOffTheDeck
apollo creed wrote: ↑03 Dec 2017, 09:47
caldo2025 wrote: ↑03 Dec 2017, 09:25
I'm not sure that i'd call this a cherry pick. Honestly, when I first heard about this fight being signed and billed as Cotto's last fight I was scratching my head and was thinking "Why the hell would he pick Ali of all people?". The reason being, Ali is lightening fast and skilled and was on his way to being highly regarded until getting caught by Vargas.
I don't know if Cotto trained like he was already retired or not but it seemed like every time Ali touched Cotto, he buzzed him. I just thought that Cotto was catching a desperate kid that couldn't afford to lose again. That's not who you want to fight on your way out imo but credit to him for not choosing a soft one. I think that you need to give Ali more credit.
That was a clear case of cherrypicking go wrong. Cotto and his team picked Ali - an 147 pounder who was stopped by Vargas thinking he's gonna be easy work. If Cotto wanted his last fight to be remembered as a solid match he would've picked a decent 154 pounder. Don't forget that he wanted Mikey Garcia.
Cotto wanted the ggg/canelo winner. He offered the fight to Spence, Garcia and other fighters before Ali. Fighting half the fight with a torn bicep could go wrong against anybody. Stop with your dumb, it's a bad look.
Re: When cherypick goes wrong; Cotto tasted some of Martinez's bitterness
Posted: 04 Dec 2017, 02:22
by boxing_rocks
It was clearly intended to be an easy final fight. If the story about the bicep is true, it is justice come true. Targeting crippled Martinez, then dehydrated Geale while avoiding Golovkin and finally getting the WBO belt by defeating all mighty Kamegai.
Re: When cherypick goes wrong; Cotto tasted some of Martinez's bitterness
Posted: 04 Dec 2017, 05:36
by Enlightened-One
BAD INTENTIONS wrote: ↑03 Dec 2017, 14:12
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑03 Dec 2017, 10:01
apollo creed wrote: ↑03 Dec 2017, 07:19
Yeah I thought this is gonna be an easy one for Cotto to look good in his last career fight but it went pretty damn wrong. Cotto cherrypicked an old-handicapped Martinez and he got a big succes but this time he screwed it.
Was Cotto a successful hypejob fighter? Yes and NO. Let's not forget that Cotto's best performances were against Floyd and Canelo although he lost both those fights. Cotto must regret he didn't retire after the fight Kamegai.
Martinez was the betting favourite against Cotto. FACT! This renders the entirely of your point as being irrelevant.
End of thread!
I finally get to argue with u ...
Sorry buddy, an
assumed two-legged and healed Sergio Martinez was the heavy favorite.
However, this assumption seemed to be more about promotion than actual evidence.
From the time the fight was announced, there were rumors Martinez wasn’t close to 100%.
Many people who picked Martinez added the clause “if he’s healthy”.
I don’t have to consider this fight a cherry-pick, Martinez wanted $, so he said he was good.
Not Cotto’s fault.
But don’t look at that Martinez and call it a legitimate win. In a capitalist, bottom-line sense, yes.
But any “enlightened” discussion considers more than one factor.
Martinez was the betting favourite against Cotto. FACT!
We both agree about Cotto
NOT "cherry picking" Martinez. FACT!
Sometimes upsets happen in boxing. FACT!
I'm not getting embroiled with your other remarks, since you're seemingly arguing against claims that I have never made.
End of thread!
Re: When cherypick goes wrong; Cotto tasted some of Martinez's bitterness
Posted: 04 Dec 2017, 07:52
by Badhusker
Cotto has had a great career, and always showed up to fight. It was clearly time for him to retire.
This was a cherry pick. Call it what it is folks. Ali was stopped by Jessie Vargas, who has a very low KO% at 147. Ali had never even fought at 154. Kind of like Pacquiao fighting Horn. Freddie Roach needs to retire now too. It would have been much worse for Cotto if they would have lined up Spence, and the most embarrassing would have been Mikey Garcia beating the crap out of Cotto.