Rigondeaux´s and Lomachenko´s fake amateur records
Posted: 07 Dec 2017, 15:25
Guillermo Rigondeaux´s "Official" amateur record: 463-12
Vasyl Lomachenko´s "Official" amateur record: 396-1
This Saturday we will witness a historic fight between two great world champions who are also legends of amateur boxing. Both of them having won two Olympic gold medals, two world championships and a ton of other amateur titles. Like with most amateur stars their pro promoters came up with an incredible amateur record that though virtually impossible to verify, most people accept as an official record.
In Rigondeaux´s case when he turned pro his "official" amateur record was 243 wins with 4 losses. That seemed way too few fights for an amateur veteran, specially a Cuban fighter who boxed amateur until he was 27. I happened to interview Rigo in 2007, four months before his first defection, and he said without hesitation his record was 381 wins with 12 losses. He had around 10 more wins before defecting at the 2007 Pan Am Games, so roughly his record would be 391 wins with 12 losses. When asked about his losses he didn´t remember exact names and dates but he named losses to Enrique Carrion, Angel Moya, Rencise Perez, Bekzat Sattarkhanov, Waldemar Font and Agasi Mamedov (which was his only loss in his last 250 amateur bouts).
Some years ago JMac pointed out here at the forum: "In 2001 at the world championships in Belfast, I was given a brochure on the Cuban team boxing at the worlds by the President of the Cuban boxing federation. It had a picture and bio on each boxer and at that time Rigondeaux's record was listed at 193-12".
If that record was correct then Rigo must have had 13 amateur losses as the Mamedov loss came in 2003. But how did he suddenly get some +70 more bouts added to his record recently?
Fact is most amateur boxers don´t know their exact record once they have more than 50-60 bouts. And many of them tend to "forget" about their early amateur losses. And some simply don´t count those losses which they felt were unfair...which can be quite many in some cases. Record books get lost, bouts don´t get filled in correctly or not at all, etc.
But above all, the promoters freshen up their boxers amateur records so it looks good when they build their boxers brands.
Floyd Mayweather´s 84-6 record or Gennady Golovkin´s 345-5 record are two recent examples which are very easily refuted by some clicks in a website or two. Mayweather had at least 8 losses (7 of them in his last 3 years as an amateur) and Golovkin had 8 losses when he was between 18 and 23 years old. And they never lost in their early formative years?
How about Lomachenko? I remember Loma responding in an old interview avoiding the question saying he had too many bouts to remember. Having only one loss in a long amateur career seems too good to be true as many times you have to give away weight and/or age in your early years. But as no one has stepped forward saying he has beaten Lomachenko when he was 9 or something I guess Loma is speaking the truth about that only loss to russian Albert Selimov.
But how about him having 397 fights?
Loma boxed amateur until he was 24 (not counting his WSB bouts in 2013). Rigo boxed amateur until 2007 at 27 years. I have found 165 bouts of Rigo of which 119 are in international competitions. Of Loma I can find only 82 bouts of which 68 are in international competitions. Of course there are many more fights out there to be found but still I find it virtually impossible that Loma can have the same amount of amateur fights than Rigondeaux (397 to 403). He simply cannot have had more early amateur fights in Ukraine than Rigo could have gotten in Cuba. Even Loma has said himself his father took him out of the sport in his early years to do other sports.
Loma was never very active fighting internationally compared to Rigondeaux who went for long European tours with the Cuban team every year. That´s why I can find more than 50 international fights of Rigo compared to Loma. And no way would Loma have more amateur fights in Ukraine than Rigo had in Cuba as stated before.
Of course I have no proof. But my numbers and my experience of amateur boxing makes me convinced I am right. Unless someone with more knowledge proves me wrong of course.
Here are the amateur fights I have of Loma and Rigo. Thanks to Matt Mizerski, Tibor Kincses and Pedro Cabrera for their work with their amateur records. Thankful for any help in completing their amateur records.
Vasyl Lomachenko´s "Official" amateur record: 396-1
This Saturday we will witness a historic fight between two great world champions who are also legends of amateur boxing. Both of them having won two Olympic gold medals, two world championships and a ton of other amateur titles. Like with most amateur stars their pro promoters came up with an incredible amateur record that though virtually impossible to verify, most people accept as an official record.
In Rigondeaux´s case when he turned pro his "official" amateur record was 243 wins with 4 losses. That seemed way too few fights for an amateur veteran, specially a Cuban fighter who boxed amateur until he was 27. I happened to interview Rigo in 2007, four months before his first defection, and he said without hesitation his record was 381 wins with 12 losses. He had around 10 more wins before defecting at the 2007 Pan Am Games, so roughly his record would be 391 wins with 12 losses. When asked about his losses he didn´t remember exact names and dates but he named losses to Enrique Carrion, Angel Moya, Rencise Perez, Bekzat Sattarkhanov, Waldemar Font and Agasi Mamedov (which was his only loss in his last 250 amateur bouts).
Some years ago JMac pointed out here at the forum: "In 2001 at the world championships in Belfast, I was given a brochure on the Cuban team boxing at the worlds by the President of the Cuban boxing federation. It had a picture and bio on each boxer and at that time Rigondeaux's record was listed at 193-12".
If that record was correct then Rigo must have had 13 amateur losses as the Mamedov loss came in 2003. But how did he suddenly get some +70 more bouts added to his record recently?
Fact is most amateur boxers don´t know their exact record once they have more than 50-60 bouts. And many of them tend to "forget" about their early amateur losses. And some simply don´t count those losses which they felt were unfair...which can be quite many in some cases. Record books get lost, bouts don´t get filled in correctly or not at all, etc.
But above all, the promoters freshen up their boxers amateur records so it looks good when they build their boxers brands.
Floyd Mayweather´s 84-6 record or Gennady Golovkin´s 345-5 record are two recent examples which are very easily refuted by some clicks in a website or two. Mayweather had at least 8 losses (7 of them in his last 3 years as an amateur) and Golovkin had 8 losses when he was between 18 and 23 years old. And they never lost in their early formative years?
How about Lomachenko? I remember Loma responding in an old interview avoiding the question saying he had too many bouts to remember. Having only one loss in a long amateur career seems too good to be true as many times you have to give away weight and/or age in your early years. But as no one has stepped forward saying he has beaten Lomachenko when he was 9 or something I guess Loma is speaking the truth about that only loss to russian Albert Selimov.
But how about him having 397 fights?
Loma boxed amateur until he was 24 (not counting his WSB bouts in 2013). Rigo boxed amateur until 2007 at 27 years. I have found 165 bouts of Rigo of which 119 are in international competitions. Of Loma I can find only 82 bouts of which 68 are in international competitions. Of course there are many more fights out there to be found but still I find it virtually impossible that Loma can have the same amount of amateur fights than Rigondeaux (397 to 403). He simply cannot have had more early amateur fights in Ukraine than Rigo could have gotten in Cuba. Even Loma has said himself his father took him out of the sport in his early years to do other sports.
Loma was never very active fighting internationally compared to Rigondeaux who went for long European tours with the Cuban team every year. That´s why I can find more than 50 international fights of Rigo compared to Loma. And no way would Loma have more amateur fights in Ukraine than Rigo had in Cuba as stated before.
Of course I have no proof. But my numbers and my experience of amateur boxing makes me convinced I am right. Unless someone with more knowledge proves me wrong of course.
Here are the amateur fights I have of Loma and Rigo. Thanks to Matt Mizerski, Tibor Kincses and Pedro Cabrera for their work with their amateur records. Thankful for any help in completing their amateur records.
I saw this fight also, looked like the battle of a bullfighter with a bull and Bukreev many times almost flew outside the ring!