BoxRec

One of my favourite boxing scribes, Vivek Wallace, recently posted the following commentary on Facebook about the outcome of the Lomachenko-Rigondeaux bout, where I feel that he brings up several important issues that many forum members have yet to consider.

For the record, I don't necessarily co-sign everything he's written, but I do agree with several aspects of his claims.

Here are his thoughts:

I need to say this....a few things actually! For starters, MAJOR PROPS to Lomachenko. We knew he was a stud, he performed like one. I had Rigo winning the fight coming in...the better man won coming out! Speed was the biggest difference. All that said.....I think there are a few things we need to touch on like ASAP!

1. Lomachenko won his 2012 Olympic Gold Medal as a 132lber, and has walked around in the 145 range since before that time. We are celebrating what we viewed as his "greatest pro accomplishment". That "accomplishment" was a victory over a fighter who has never fought above 122lbs, and never walked around above 130lbs (approx). I personally think skills CAN (not always but CAN) overcome size, but what bothers me here is that many of you who are relishing in his victory are downplaying a greater size difference than the one you said was at fault when Lomachenko was defeated by Orlando Salido (11lbs approximately).

I think that's pretty weak! But what's even weaker is calling fans "haters" because they want to see a guy test himself. Many of you using that line said Andre Ward was a "part time fighter that's not as good as his fans think". Ward couldn't get Golovkin to make the same 8 pound jump that Rigondeaux did in an effort to dare himself to be great, so what did Ward do? He went up 7lbs and faced the biggest, baddest, opponent you guys had on the radar. He didn't do it once.....he did it TWICE! And he won twice!

To this day, both Golovkin and Lomachenko have found success defeating men whom they are clearly bigger than. That's pure garbage. This is a gladiator sport, and those who test themselves are the ones who earn respect for themselves. I commend Rigo for taking the fight. I commend Ward and others for stepping up. Adrien Broner isn't HALF the talent of these two men....but he also stepped up in weight to dare himself to be great. Paul Williams wasn't as celebrated, but he was facing men at 147, 154, and 160 LITERALLY AT THE SAME TIME! So, NO....im not a hater. YES....i do expect to see men test themselves before being labeled "P4P best", or "best-in-class". If you can't post an example of these two men going up to test themselves, stop talking....because you aren't saying a damn thing! Period...#EndRant

Thoughts?

I don't think much of that rant. Moving up in weight alone doesn't equal greatness. Beating great fighters equals greatness. Lomachenko has beaten a few great fighters already, and will beat some more I'm sure.

There are definitely more noteworthy examples of guys moving up and achieving great victories than Ward's 2 controversial victories. Some guys actually did it without controversy.

Like Bernard Hopkins for instance. Who along with being the Longest reigning Middleweight Champion in recorded history is also the Oldest Boxing Champion in recorded history, and became a 3x Light Heavyweight Champion after his historic Middleweight run.

He moved up 2 weight classes to defeat Antonio Tarver in lopsided, controversy free, fashion.

Adrien Broner didn't "dare himself to be great". He was practically handed his titles on a silver plate as he was always matched against the weakest titleholder available when moving up.

Also...in case the person who wrote that rant isn't already aware. Lomachenko is a 2 weight World Champion already. So he's already moved up once.

Guys a hater. I don't even know why he brought GGG , Ward and Kovaelv into a rant on Lomachenko.

Lomachenko best win was against Gary Russell jr, that fight was fought at fair weight, Lomachenko's best weight really was 126 but because of boxing business/politics promoters etc the fights against the other best 126 pounders couldn't be made.
Loma's an obvious bad ass and I predict will move up in weight to fight Mikey Garcia in the the near future. Unless Garcia doesn't want that fight then we wait and see what develops.

victor-romeo wrote: ↑11 Dec 2017, 15:56 Guys a hater. I don't even know why he brought GGG , Ward and Kovaelv into a rant on Lomachenko.

Lomachenko best win was against Gary Russell jr, that fight was fought at fair weight, Lomachenko's best weight really was 126 but because of boxing business/politics promoters etc the fights against the other best 126 pounders couldn't be made.
Loma's an obvious bad ass and I predict will move up in weight to fight Mikey Garcia in the the near future. Unless Garcia doesn't want that fight then we wait and see what develops.

I'd say he's just as well at 130 as he was at 126. I don't expect 135 will be too much of a jump for him either. Things might start to get dicey if he goes as far as 140 though.

Geezer sounds bitter

The size difference was brought up a lot beforehand and rightly so but after the fight I don't think anyone can claim Lomachenko's size had any bearing on the fight, unless you consider Rigondeaux being intimidated by the size of Loma beforehand which resulted in him holding him constantly, at no point did Loma try to impose his size on Rigo, it was speed, skills and footwork and his jab was busy too

victor-romeo wrote: ↑11 Dec 2017, 15:56 Guys a hater. I don't even know why he brought GGG , Ward and Kovaelv into a rant on Lomachenko.

Lomachenko best win was against Gary Russell jr, that fight was fought at fair weight, Lomachenko's best weight really was 126 but because of boxing business/politics promoters etc the fights against the other best 126 pounders couldn't be made.
Loma's an obvious bad ass and I predict will move up in weight to fight Mikey Garcia in the the near future. Unless Garcia doesn't want that fight then we wait and see what develops.

I don't agree about your perception of Vivek Wallace being a "hater".

I don't necessarily support everything he said, but there are people from this forum already boldly proclaiming Lomachenko as being better than several legitimate all-time-greats on the back of him beating a near forty year old, past-his-prime opponent that competed in two weight divisions lower than himself.

People should not forget that simple fact.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑11 Dec 2017, 16:26

victor-romeo wrote: ↑11 Dec 2017, 15:56 Guys a hater. I don't even know why he brought GGG , Ward and Kovaelv into a rant on Lomachenko.

Lomachenko best win was against Gary Russell jr, that fight was fought at fair weight, Lomachenko's best weight really was 126 but because of boxing business/politics promoters etc the fights against the other best 126 pounders couldn't be made.
Loma's an obvious bad ass and I predict will move up in weight to fight Mikey Garcia in the the near future. Unless Garcia doesn't want that fight then we wait and see what develops.

I don't agree about your perception of Vivek Wallace being a "hater".

I don't necessarily support everything he said, but there are people from this forum already boldly proclaiming Lomachenko as being better than several legitimate all-time-greats on the back of him beating a near forty year old, past-his-prime opponent that competed in two weight divisions lower than himself.

People should not forget that simple fact.

People on this forum get overly excited about fighters all the time.

It took Keith Thurman going the distance like 4 times in a row before people finally got it that he wasn't actually a "One Time" kinda puncher.

I suppose it's human nature to want to believe you're not only watching a great fighter, but you're watching the greatest fighter.

People with objectivity and historical knowledge of the sport won't be so quick to be so over the top in their praise like that, and the people that ARE that quick to give that level of praise will do it again several times over the years to the point that you'll notice they're calling every new phenom that comes along the greatest thing since sliced bread.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Dec 2017, 16:30

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑11 Dec 2017, 16:26

victor-romeo wrote: ↑11 Dec 2017, 15:56 Guys a hater. I don't even know why he brought GGG , Ward and Kovaelv into a rant on Lomachenko.

Lomachenko best win was against Gary Russell jr, that fight was fought at fair weight, Lomachenko's best weight really was 126 but because of boxing business/politics promoters etc the fights against the other best 126 pounders couldn't be made.
Loma's an obvious bad ass and I predict will move up in weight to fight Mikey Garcia in the the near future. Unless Garcia doesn't want that fight then we wait and see what develops.

I don't agree about your perception of Vivek Wallace being a "hater".

I don't necessarily support everything he said, but there are people from this forum already boldly proclaiming Lomachenko as being better than several legitimate all-time-greats on the back of him beating a near forty year old, past-his-prime opponent that competed in two weight divisions lower than himself.

People should not forget that simple fact.

People on this forum get overly excited about fighters all the time.

It took Keith Thurman going the distance like 4 times in a row before people finally got it that he wasn't actually a "One Time" kinda puncher.

I suppose it's human nature to want to believe you're not only watching a great fighter, but you're watching the greatest fighter.

People with objectivity and historical knowledge of the sport won't be so quick to be so over the top in their praise like that, and the people that ARE that quick to give that level of praise will do it again several times over the years to the point that you'll notice they're calling every new phenom that comes along the greatest thing since sliced bread.

100% agree with this post!

The schmuck is clearly a hater. Loma and GGG are just of a wrong color for him. The rant is laughable.

A-Hole Vivek says.., "MAJOR PROPS to Lomachenko. We knew he was a stud, he performed like one. I had Rigo winning the fight coming in" .... No SHITT!!! Who'd you expect Vivek to pick between an American and Eastern European???

"1. Lomachenko won his 2012 Olympic Gold Medal as a 132lber, and has walked around in the 145 range since before that time." ... That is total Bullcrap Vivek pulled out of his ass.

"We are celebrating what we viewed as his "greatest pro accomplishment". That "accomplishment" was a victory over a fighter who has never fought above 122lbs, and never walked around above 130lbs (approx)." MORE Bullcrap Vivek pulled out of his ass

"I personally think skills CAN (not always but CAN) overcome size, but what bothers me here is that many of you who are relishing in his victory are downplaying a greater size difference than the one you said was at fault when Lomachenko was defeated by Orlando Salido" .... Vivek has GOT to mention the Orlando Salido robbery doesn't he??? That's mandaory... Every fair minded person knows Lomachenko won that fight.

"Ward couldn't get Golovkin to make the same 8 pound jump that Rigondeaux did in an effort to dare himself to be great" .... Golovkin tried 4 times to get fights at 168 so he could acclimate to the weight and build up the Ward fight.. Which his trainer Abel Sanchez advised him to do.. Each time he had an opponent set up the Boxing Establishment squashed the fight... Ward effectively had three (3) warm up fights at Light Heavyweight to get ready for Kovalev.

"To this day, both Golovkin and Lomachenko have found success defeating men whom they are clearly bigger than. That's pure garbage" .... it's pure garbage whenever an Easter European wins.. That's his whole deal, HATE!!! ....

" I commend Rigo for taking the fight." .... Right, commend him for taking the fight and predict he'll win easily... but then call the fight pure garbage after his loses very badly.

"Adrien Broner isn't HALF the talent of these two men" .... Right. A great talent when Vivek predicted he would beat Maidana, Porter, and Mikey.. But now he's a no talent ....

"If you can't post an example of these two men going up to test themselves, stop talking....because you aren't saying a damn thing! Period... [/quote]

You're not saying anything Vivek... Just excuses, lies, and bullcrap whenever the Americans you pick lose badly.

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑11 Dec 2017, 16:46 The schmuck is clearly a hater. Loma and GGG are just of a wrong color for him. The rant is laughable.

Please list the factual inaccuracies of his claims.

If you can't, then you're a hypocrite.

Kalan wrote: ↑11 Dec 2017, 16:56 A-Hole Vivek says.., "MAJOR PROPS to Lomachenko. We knew he was a stud, he performed like one. I had Rigo winning the fight coming in" .... No SHITT!!! Who'd you expect Vivek to pick between an American and Eastern European???

"1. Lomachenko won his 2012 Olympic Gold Medal as a 132lber, and has walked around in the 145 range since before that time." ... That is total Bullcrap Vivek pulled out of his ass.

"We are celebrating what we viewed as his "greatest pro accomplishment". That "accomplishment" was a victory over a fighter who has never fought above 122lbs, and never walked around above 130lbs (approx)." MORE Bullcrap Vivek pulled out of his ass

"I personally think skills CAN (not always but CAN) overcome size, but what bothers me here is that many of you who are relishing in his victory are downplaying a greater size difference than the one you said was at fault when Lomachenko was defeated by Orlando Salido" .... Vivek has GOT to mention the Orlando Salido robbery doesn't he??? That's mandaory... Every fair minded person knows Lomachenko won that fight.

"Ward couldn't get Golovkin to make the same 8 pound jump that Rigondeaux did in an effort to dare himself to be great" .... Golovkin tried 4 times to get fights at 168 so he could acclimate to the weight and build up the Ward fight.. Which his trainer Abel Sanchez advised him to do.. Each time he had an opponent set up the Boxing Establishment squashed the fight... Ward effectively had three (3) warm up fights at Light Heavyweight to get ready for Kovalev.

"To this day, both Golovkin and Lomachenko have found success defeating men whom they are clearly bigger than. That's pure garbage" .... it's pure garbage whenever an Easter European wins.. That's his whole deal, HATE!!! ....

" I commend Rigo for taking the fight." .... Right, commend him for taking the fight and predict he'll win easily... but then call the fight pure garbage after his loses very badly.

"Adrien Broner isn't HALF the talent of these two men" .... Right. A great talent when Vivek predicted he would beat Maidana, Porter, and Mikey.. But now he's a no talent ....

"If you can't post an example of these two men going up to test themselves, stop talking....because you aren't saying a damn thing! Period...

You're not saying anything Vivek... Just excuses, lies, and bullcrap whenever the Americans you pick lose badly.
[/quote]
Kalan, instead of boldly proclaiming "bullcráp", cite some facts.

If you can't, then please remain silent.

Honestly, I don't think weight played much of a part in the outcome. As I stated in another thread, had Rigo been the bigger man, the skillset and speed was just too much in favor of Loma.

Tell me how Loma used his size? Every time Loma would close distance and get inside, Rigo would tie him up.

"To this day, both Golovkin and Lomachenko have found success defeating men whom they are clearly bigger than."

Loma was bigger than Walters? Bullsh!t.

Golovkin was bigger than Murray or Jacobs? Utter bullsh!t.

There is more of bullsh!t in that rant which everybody who is not a hater knows to be bullsh!t.

veering off into a ggg rant and praising ward, paul williams, and broner makes me think its about something deeper for vivek wallace.loma has already won titles in 2 divisions in single digit fights. why does he fit loma into the box of ggg, who in 40 fights hasnt moved up at all? loma could very well move up to a 3rd soon. 3 divisions within 15 total fights is very realustic.



hes a balancer for the eastern euro fanatics who hype guys just for coming from former ussr.pretty obvious the undertones and points he focuses on if u follow his stuff.

loma is gunna be the new ggg demographic divider

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑11 Dec 2017, 17:38

"To this day, both Golovkin and Lomachenko have found success defeating men whom they are clearly bigger than."

Loma was bigger than Walters? Bullsh!t.

Golovkin was bigger than Murray or Jacobs? Utter bullsh!t.

There is more of bullsh!t in that rant which everybody who is not a hater knows to be bullsh!t.

Indeed, what a crock of bs.

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑11 Dec 2017, 16:46 The schmuck is clearly a hater. Loma and GGG are just of a wrong color for him. The rant is laughable.

I was about to post this. I hope no one takes this guy seriously. He sounds like a useless hater like that dude that lives in his mother's basement, Carceno.

He seemed to have a decent point about Rigo really being up against and how he should be praised for going up two weights until I realised the pattern that he was in the favour of all the black fighters and against the white Europeans, maybe it's coincidence I don't know? But I think it's apparent to everyone that Ward will go down in history as a better fighter than GGG given his resumé.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑11 Dec 2017, 15:41 One of my favourite boxing scribes, Vivek Wallace, recently posted the following commentary on Facebook about the outcome of the Lomachenko-Rigondeaux bout, where I feel that he brings up several important issues that many forum members have yet to consider.

For the record, I don't necessarily co-sign everything he's written, but I do agree with several aspects of his claims.

Here are his thoughts:

I need to say this....a few things actually! For starters, MAJOR PROPS to Lomachenko. We knew he was a stud, he performed like one. I had Rigo winning the fight coming in...the better man won coming out! Speed was the biggest difference. All that said.....I think there are a few things we need to touch on like ASAP!

1. Lomachenko won his 2012 Olympic Gold Medal as a 132lber, and has walked around in the 145 range since before that time. We are celebrating what we viewed as his "greatest pro accomplishment". That "accomplishment" was a victory over a fighter who has never fought above 122lbs, and never walked around above 130lbs (approx). I personally think skills CAN (not always but CAN) overcome size, but what bothers me here is that many of you who are relishing in his victory are downplaying a greater size difference than the one you said was at fault when Lomachenko was defeated by Orlando Salido (11lbs approximately).

I think that's pretty weak! But what's even weaker is calling fans "haters" because they want to see a guy test himself. Many of you using that line said Andre Ward was a "part time fighter that's not as good as his fans think". Ward couldn't get Golovkin to make the same 8 pound jump that Rigondeaux did in an effort to dare himself to be great, so what did Ward do? He went up 7lbs and faced the biggest, baddest, opponent you guys had on the radar. He didn't do it once.....he did it TWICE! And he won twice!

To this day, both Golovkin and Lomachenko have found success defeating men whom they are clearly bigger than. That's pure garbage. This is a gladiator sport, and those who test themselves are the ones who earn respect for themselves. I commend Rigo for taking the fight. I commend Ward and others for stepping up. Adrien Broner isn't HALF the talent of these two men....but he also stepped up in weight to dare himself to be great. Paul Williams wasn't as celebrated, but he was facing men at 147, 154, and 160 LITERALLY AT THE SAME TIME! So, NO....im not a hater. YES....i do expect to see men test themselves before being labeled "P4P best", or "best-in-class". If you can't post an example of these two men going up to test themselves, stop talking....because you aren't saying a damn thing! Period...#EndRant

Thoughts?

It was a good read until this Dope used GGG as an example. Are you kidding me? Brook and Canelo were fighting below 160 before taking a fight with GGG but both guys clearly outweighed GGG on fight night inside the ring. Never mind the size that GGG gave away against Jacobs when DJ didn't abide by the second weigh in. Who else is this guy referring to though? Just more unfair criticism for GGG and it just never seems to end. GGG will never get a fair shake.

GGG is a true 160 pounder. He makes weight all the time comfortably and is not one of these guys that sucks down to fight smaller guys and puff up overnight to have a size advantage. GGG's only advantage on fight night is god given power.

What I don't understand here is why would boxer have to go up in weight to prove he is great? Why can't people fight in weight that is suitable to them and box against opponents who are same size as them self?

I can understand this in lower weights where people do actually grow out of their weight class.

Why should GGG who is already getting bit old move up if hes at his best at middleweight?

Makes no sense

I find it a bit odd that he picked Rigo to win the fight but now is playing down Loma's win based on the size difference.

So pre fight he believed the size difference wouldn't be a factor, yet after his pick lost he tries to imply that size was the biggest factor in the fight?

Seems rather contradictory to me.

keirw wrote: ↑13 Dec 2017, 10:10 I find it a bit odd that he picked Rigo to win the fight but now is playing down Loma's win based on the size difference.

So pre fight he believed the size difference wouldn't be a factor, yet after his pick lost he tries to imply that size was the biggest factor in the fight?

Seems rather contradictory to me.

ive seen his stuff his props and criticisms are obviously racially influenced (pro black anti white) and that often makes his stuff not very logically argued. i mean just look at how his comments on rigo v loma, which he picked rigo, turn into shitting on ggg and praising a bunch of black guys like williams and broner. its blatant with this brother.he argues and caters to a demographic first and foremost.he can get a good base doing that.

jamamb wrote: ↑13 Dec 2017, 19:42

keirw wrote: ↑13 Dec 2017, 10:10 I find it a bit odd that he picked Rigo to win the fight but now is playing down Loma's win based on the size difference.

So pre fight he believed the size difference wouldn't be a factor, yet after his pick lost he tries to imply that size was the biggest factor in the fight?

Seems rather contradictory to me.

ive seen his stuff his props and criticisms are obviously racially influenced (pro black anti white) and that often makes his stuff not very logically argued. i mean just look at how his comments on rigo v loma, which he picked rigo, turn into shitting on ggg and praising a bunch of black guys like williams and broner. its blatant with this brother.he argues and caters to a demographic first and foremost.

Vivek Wallace is not "anti-white".

Whilst I may not agree with everything he says, he's not a racist. His words are always carefully-considered and extremely well articulated, even if people don't necessarily agree with his thoughts.

If you're going to attempt to undermine Vivek Wallace, challenge his actual words words rather than conveying clearly fictional claims about his personal beliefs.

He is clearly anti-white. He may carefully consider his words to not say it explicitly, but his racial preferences are still way too obvious.