BoxRec

Posted: **21 Dec 2017, 11:16**

The guy had a great record against the best of the 1970s.

He beat Ron Lyle twice.
He beat George Foreman
He drew with Earnie Shavers

and to top it off many thought he beat Muhammed Ali and Ken Norton

Not bad going for a small HW with no punch and many losses on his record. Had he got the decision over Norton and Ali he would've had one of the greatest resumes in HW boxing.

Posted: **21 Dec 2017, 11:41**

Perhaps the strangest boxing resume I've ever seen. Mostly excellent from 1975-77.

Supposedly he looked terrible in the fight right before he fought Ali decisioning Joe "King" Roman.

Posted: **21 Dec 2017, 11:50**

Tony1244 wrote: ↑21 Dec 2017, 11:41 Perhaps the strangest boxing resume I've ever seen. Mostly excellent from 1975-77.

Supposedly he looked terrible in the fight right before he fought Ali decisioning Joe "King" Roman.

Yeah, had he got the nod in those fights, as some believe he deserved, he would have had a 22-4-2 record with wins over Ali, Norton, Foreman, Lyle and Shavers, pretty remarkable.

Posted: **21 Dec 2017, 12:00**

Controversial wrote: ↑21 Dec 2017, 11:50
Tony1244 wrote: ↑21 Dec 2017, 11:41 Perhaps the strangest boxing resume I've ever seen. Mostly excellent from 1975-77.

Supposedly he looked terrible in the fight right before he fought Ali decisioning Joe "King" Roman.
Yeah, had he got the nod in those fights, as some believe he deserved, he would have had a 22-4-2 record with wins over Ali, Norton, Foreman, Lyle and Shavers, pretty remarkable.

How the hell did he lose to Ocassio twice?

Posted: **21 Dec 2017, 13:01**

Tony1244 wrote: ↑21 Dec 2017, 12:00
Controversial wrote: ↑21 Dec 2017, 11:50
Tony1244 wrote: ↑21 Dec 2017, 11:41 Perhaps the strangest boxing resume I've ever seen. Mostly excellent from 1975-77.

Supposedly he looked terrible in the fight right before he fought Ali decisioning Joe "King" Roman.
Yeah, had he got the nod in those fights, as some believe he deserved, he would have had a 22-4-2 record with wins over Ali, Norton, Foreman, Lyle and Shavers, pretty remarkable.
How the hell did he lose to Ocassio twice?

From what I've read he stopped caring after not getting the Norton decision and started messing around with coke. He made another run at it around 1981 but lost to Greg Page and went back to being a trialhorse.

Amazing really, on his game he is not far off ATG material. One of the most deceptive records in boxing history.

Posted: **21 Dec 2017, 14:10**

Flump wrote: ↑21 Dec 2017, 13:01
Tony1244 wrote: ↑21 Dec 2017, 12:00
Controversial wrote: ↑21 Dec 2017, 11:50

Yeah, had he got the nod in those fights, as some believe he deserved, he would have had a 22-4-2 record with wins over Ali, Norton, Foreman, Lyle and Shavers, pretty remarkable.
How the hell did he lose to Ocassio twice?
From what I've read he stopped caring after not getting the Norton decision and started messing around with coke. He made another run at it around 1981 but lost to Greg Page and went back to being a trialhorse.

Amazing really, on his game he is not far off ATG material. One of the most deceptive records in boxing history.

I know the history, it still sort of amazes me.

The Norton and Ali fights looked close watching them as an adult. At the time, I thought they were closer to robberies. Even if they had given Foreman a gift against Young, it wouldn't have been the worst robbery of all time.

Posted: **21 Dec 2017, 16:43**

Tony1244 wrote: ↑21 Dec 2017, 14:10
Flump wrote: ↑21 Dec 2017, 13:01
Tony1244 wrote: ↑21 Dec 2017, 12:00

How the hell did he lose to Ocassio twice?
From what I've read he stopped caring after not getting the Norton decision and started messing around with coke. He made another run at it around 1981 but lost to Greg Page and went back to being a trialhorse.

Amazing really, on his game he is not far off ATG material. One of the most deceptive records in boxing history.
I know the history, it still sort of amazes me.

The Norton and Ali fights looked close watching them as an adult. At the time, I thought they were closer to robberies. Even if they had given Foreman a gift against Young, it wouldn't have been the worst robbery of all time.

His prime was a bit before my time Tony but watching them back around 10 years ago I had him narrowly beating Norton and narrowly losing to Ali. I don't get why he kept sticking his head through the ropes against Ali, with a bit more devil he could have made that fight wide but he chose not to.

Posted: **21 Dec 2017, 17:16**

Jimmy Young was at his peak for a relatively short period of time. He was going downhill by the time he fought Ossie Ocasio twice. In addition, Young came into at least one bout far above his normal weight and apparently had a drug problem during the latter part of his career.

During his prime years, Young gave just about every one of his opponents fits with his baffling boxing style. But I feel that Joe Frazier with his relentless, aggressive fighting style throughout a bout, would have been too much for Young. Like Frazier, a young George Foreman also had an aggressive fighting, but lacked the stamina to be relentless throughout a bout. Foreman's lack of stamina hampered him in bouts with both Young and Muhammad Ali.

- Chuck Johnston

Posted: **24 Dec 2017, 14:47**

When I started boxing as an amateur in 1977 at Joe Frazier's gym, Young was training for the Foreman fight. He had a big probably 265 lb which was big in those days sparring partner. I watched him practice the rope-a-dope every time he sparred. It was obvious he was taking a page out of Ali's playbook and it worked. I was telling everybody back then to bet on Young and they thought I was crazy. Unfortunately i didn't have any money at the time to bet myself.
Young was a slick boxer and I used to love watching him spar.
After the Ali fight in which Young made about $200 K he bought a big Lincoln Continental that had his name written on the trunk. He would park on the sidewalk outside of the gym as did other people since parking was tight on the streets. The cops would come and write tickets except for Jimmy's car. He was big time then as everyone thought he beat Ali.
Years later when I started getting into coaching, I worked with a guy who had skills but also had a drinking problem. Jimmy Young bought a house in his neighborhood and they became friends. My guy ended up being a sparring partner for Young towards the end of his career. My guy told me they would stop at several bars on the way home from the gym everyday. He also confirmed the drug usage by Jimmy.

Posted: **24 Dec 2017, 14:59**

Young was a lackadaisical, overweight boxer by time he stepped into the ring with ordinary Ocasio.

He had lost his dedication to the sport. And as others have mentioned, Young probably was battling the beginnings of drug addiction.

Of course, that wasn't generally known at the time. It was just assumed that Young ate his way out of heavyweight contention.

Posted: **25 Dec 2017, 03:45**

Chuck1052 wrote: ↑21 Dec 2017, 17:16 Like Frazier, a young George Foreman also had an aggressive fighting [style], but lacked the stamina to be relentless throughout a bout. Foreman's lack of stamina hampered him in bouts with both Young and Muhammad Ali.

- Chuck Johnston

Stamina wasn't the issue with a "young" Foreman... He wasn't an attacker.. He couldn't put a head on you like Frazier could.. In fact if you got too close he shoved you away to get punching room.. And at long range he wasn't relaxed.. He couldn't ease up on his jab and just to score with it.. He tried to batter you with it.. That way a good boxer saw them all coming and popped George with quicker, smoother, more educated and effortless jabs.. Then they put right hands on him.. Then George turned it up even more and threw harder and it got worse..

But anyone who came at him head first, like Norton or Frazier, was doomed.. Norton couldn't back up well or move laterally well.. He was a sitting duck for Foreman, Shavers, and Cooney.. Even in his loss versus Garcia, Norton's problems were evident.. He was getting ripped.. Frazier could box some, but he didn't have any height or range so boxing wasn't something he focused on.. Foreman made his rep off those 2... A young Foreman didn't look relaxed or in control with boxers - but he sure as Hell did with those guys.. They were made to order for him..

I often wonder how Foreman would have done starting out with a trainer like Blackburn or Steward - who could take a kid with his kind of talent and give him a perfect stance, great footwork .... and a jab you can get on anybody.

Posted: **25 Dec 2017, 07:26**

Jimmy was brought over here in December 1979 as a stepping stone for John L. Gardner. The fight was postponed for a week (severe weather conditions) and a bored Jimmy, in seven days, whipped himself into pretty decent shape and gave Gardner a boxing lesson, flooring him in the last round to win clearly on points.

Posted: **25 Dec 2017, 07:29**

He’d never compete with today’s ‘goliaths’

Posted: **25 Dec 2017, 15:46**

Young couldn't compete with anyone who had tremendous height, weight, reach, and strength advantages on him who also had a great stance, footwork, and jabbing skills... Certainly not a with prime Joshua or Wladimir... Cooney jabbed and right handed the crap out of Young with his superior size, height, and reach .... and Gerry had 2nd rate skills.

Right after his fight with Foreman, Young fought Jody Ballard who was a terrible boxer... I assumed he'd light Ballard up like a Christmas tree - but he seemed to be doing just enough to win... Trainers say you can look bad against 2nd raters because you "can't get up for them"... I never believed that for a minute... If you have a World Champion's mentality you train hard and consistently for EVERYBODY.. You improve your skills in the gym... You dominate and destroy 2nd raters BECAUSE they're so over matched... Look at what Larry Holmes did to Ossie Ocasio... He destroyed him... Rematch??? GTFO!!! You make a statement if you're great.. "DON'T give me these punks... Give me somebody who can fight."

The difference between Young and Joshua is more than physical or mental... It's character... Joshua studies his fights for punches he got hit with, and just where he can improve... He has the work ethic and desire to follow through... He's not satisfied with where he's at... Young peaked when he had 20 wins.. He was hungry.. When he had 21 wins he was content.

Posted: **25 Dec 2017, 17:45**

Kalan wrote: ↑25 Dec 2017, 15:46 Young couldn't compete with anyone who had tremendous height, weight, reach, and strength advantages on him who also had a great stance, footwork, and jabbing skills... Certainly not a with prime Joshua or Wladimir... Cooney jabbed and right handed the crap out of Young with his superior size, height, and reach .... and Gerry had 2nd rate skills.

Right after his fight with Foreman, Young fought Jody Ballard who was a terrible boxer... I assumed he'd light Ballard up like a Christmas tree - but he seemed to be doing just enough to win... Trainers say you can look bad against 2nd raters because you "can't get up for them"... I never believed that for a minute... If you have a World Champion's mentality you train hard and consistently for EVERYBODY.. You improve your skills in the gym... You dominate and destroy 2nd raters BECAUSE they're so over matched... Look at what Larry Holmes did to Ossie Ocasio... He destroyed him... Rematch??? GTFO!!! You make a statement if you're great.. "DON'T give me these punks... Give me somebody who can fight."

The difference between Young and Joshua is more than physical or mental... It's character... Joshua studies his fights for punches he got hit with, and just where he can improve... He has the work ethic and desire to follow through... He's not satisfied with where he's at... Young peaked when he had 20 wins.. He was hungry.. When he had 21 wins he was content.

If you came from where he did and made good enough money to live really comfortable and you had addiction problems, you would have been content as well.

Posted: **25 Dec 2017, 20:14**

JMac wrote: ↑25 Dec 2017, 17:45
Kalan wrote: ↑25 Dec 2017, 15:46 Young couldn't compete with anyone who had tremendous height, weight, reach, and strength advantages on him who also had a great stance, footwork, and jabbing skills... Certainly not a with prime Joshua or Wladimir... Cooney jabbed and right handed the crap out of Young with his superior size, height, and reach .... and Gerry had 2nd rate skills.

Right after his fight with Foreman, Young fought Jody Ballard who was a terrible boxer... I assumed he'd light Ballard up like a Christmas tree - but he seemed to be doing just enough to win... Trainers say you can look bad against 2nd raters because you "can't get up for them"... I never believed that for a minute... If you have a World Champion's mentality you train hard and consistently for EVERYBODY.. You improve your skills in the gym... You dominate and destroy 2nd raters BECAUSE they're so over matched... Look at what Larry Holmes did to Ossie Ocasio... He destroyed him... Rematch??? GTFO!!! You make a statement if you're great.. "DON'T give me these punks... Give me somebody who can fight."

The difference between Young and Joshua is more than physical or mental... It's character... Joshua studies his fights for punches he got hit with, and just where he can improve... He has the work ethic and desire to follow through... He's not satisfied with where he's at... Young peaked when he had 20 wins.. He was hungry.. When he had 21 wins he was content.
If you came from where he did and made good enough money to live really comfortable and you had addiction problems, you would have been content as well

So you're making excuses for Young as to why he didn't follow up on his success versus Foreman??? .... Fine.

Not everyone becomes a dominant Heavyweight Champion or makes the most of his gifts.... Understood.

Posted: **26 Dec 2017, 06:53**

Kalan wrote: ↑25 Dec 2017, 20:14
So you're making excuses for Young as to why he didn't follow up on his success versus Foreman??? .... Fine.

Not everyone becomes a dominant Heavyweight Champion or makes the most of his gifts.... Understood.

Boxing is full of fighters like Young, doesn't make them bad fighters. Young was inconsistent and had addiction issues, it happens. Foreman was hardly a dominant HW champ either, he made two defences in just over a year, one against little Jose Roman who was one of the worst title challengers ever, and was then knocked out.

Posted: **27 Dec 2017, 11:51**

Always thought the Norton fight was one of the most underrated fights ever. There probably has not been 5 better heavyweight fights since then. He certainly could have got the decision as well. If he gets it, he would have been named the WBC champion after the WBA stripped Spinks.
He look terrible against Ali. Simply didn't do enough offensively. Ducking between the ropes was ridiculous.
The first Ocasio fight was pretty close. If he gets that decision, you have to wonder if his career would have fell apart so fast.

Posted: **27 Dec 2017, 14:52**

Yeah...... The 1st Ocasio fight was close....so they gave Young a 2nd bite at the apple.... They DIDN'T want Holmes vs Ocasio .... Who wants to see that crap??? it's like Marvis versus Holmes....not an attractive fight....so they tried again...

Just like they thought Joe Bugner would make a good opponent for Holmes so they matched him with Marvis Frazier.

They wanted Holmes-Young... It's an interesting fight between 2 guys who can box real slick... So Young was given a 2nd opportunity to walk into a World Title Fight with in the Ocasio rematch... You thought "Good grief Jimmy .... FIGHT!!!"

If you're not going to box your ass off to get a Lineal World Heavyweight Title Fight - when are you gonna fight???

Posted: **30 Dec 2017, 10:59**

bennie wrote: ↑25 Dec 2017, 07:26 Jimmy was brought over here in December 1979 as a stepping stone for John L. Gardner. The fight was postponed for a week (severe weather conditions) and a bored Jimmy, in seven days, whipped himself into pretty decent shape and gave Gardner a boxing lesson, flooring him in the last round to win clearly on points.

I never did see Gardner v Ocasio bennie, wasn't there something controversial about it?

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