BoxRec

And how would you rank him in the top 10 ATG 175 pounders list ?

It will show that he still has it.. To still dominate the LHW division, he would be the best LHW in the last 10 years.

Artur Beterbiev is an Al Haymon fighter and as we should already realise by now, Kathy Duva and HBO rarely does business with those guys, unless mega-bucks are involved.

Therefore, don't expect to see Main Events and HBO attempt to orchestrate fights between their guys with the likes of Stevenson, Beterbiev, Jack, Alvarez etc. anytime soon.

Beterbiev is with Top Rank.

He's still the best at this moment, he was clearly better as Andre was, in both fights btw.

Like usual completely wrong. No way he wins the rematch . He was looking for an excuse to quit.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑24 Dec 2017, 06:08 It will show that he still has it.. To still dominate the LHW division, he would be the best LHW in the last 10 years.

Yup.

marvelous marv wrote: ↑24 Dec 2017, 07:21 Beterbiev is with Top Rank.

Artur Beterbiev only competed on a Top Rank fight card for his most recent bout, because Bob Arum's company won the purse bid for that fight.

Top Rank and Al Haymon does do business with each other. And Top Rank has a contract that ensures all of their fights are exclusively televised by ESPN, which inevitably prohibits any of Arum's big-name fighters from appearing on HBO.

I believe that Beterbiev is currently embroiled in a legal wrangle with GYM, his current promoter, because the Russian fighter is trying to leave them.

Artur Beterbiev is still managed by Al Haymon, he's listed on the PBC website and he's also listed as one Groupe Yvon Michel's fighters on their website.

The Russian is not listed as one of Top Rank's fighters on their website, because he isn't "officially" being promoted by them.

If Beterbiev's is able to reach an agreement to end his contract with GYM in the short-term, then he may eventually join Top Rank, but that is unlikely to enhance his chances of facing fighters that have exclusive contracts with HBO.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑24 Dec 2017, 11:22

marvelous marv wrote: ↑24 Dec 2017, 07:21 Beterbiev is with Top Rank.

Artur Beterbiev only competed on a Top Rank fight card for his most recent bout, because Bob Arum's company won the purse bid for that fight.

Top Rank and Al Haymon does do business with each other. And Top Rank has a contract that ensures all of their fights are exclusively televised by ESPN, which inevitably prohibits any of Arum's big-name fighters from appearing on HBO.

I believe that Beterbiev is currently embroiled in a legal wrangle with GYM, his current promoter, because the Russian fighter is trying to leave them.

Artur Beterbiev is still managed by Al Haymon, he's listed on the PBC website and he's also listed as one Groupe Yvon Michel's fighters on their website.

The Russian is not listed as one of Top Rank's fighters on their website, because he isn't "officially" being promoted by them.

I always research my claims prior to making them.

EO, you are a true 'Jedi' of FACTS and researching.

How does Kovalev against Beterbiev and Barrera/Bivol in your enlightened opinion ?

apollo creed wrote: ↑24 Dec 2017, 11:50

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑24 Dec 2017, 11:22

marvelous marv wrote: ↑24 Dec 2017, 07:21 Beterbiev is with Top Rank.

Artur Beterbiev only competed on a Top Rank fight card for his most recent bout, because Bob Arum's company won the purse bid for that fight.

Top Rank and Al Haymon does do business with each other. And Top Rank has a contract that ensures all of their fights are exclusively televised by ESPN, which inevitably prohibits any of Arum's big-name fighters from appearing on HBO.

I believe that Beterbiev is currently embroiled in a legal wrangle with GYM, his current promoter, because the Russian fighter is trying to leave them.

Artur Beterbiev is still managed by Al Haymon, he's listed on the PBC website and he's also listed as one Groupe Yvon Michel's fighters on their website.

The Russian is not listed as one of Top Rank's fighters on their website, because he isn't "officially" being promoted by them.

I always research my claims prior to making them.

EO, you are a true 'Jedi' of FACTS and researching.

How does Kovalev against Beterbiev and Barrera/Bivol in your enlightened opinion ?

What do you mean?

Even though I don't think that we'll ever get to see Kovalev face Beterbiev, due to Kathy Duva, I'd favour the newly-crowned IBF champ to dethrone his Russian counterpart.

I also believe that Bivol beats Barrera.

First off, I rate Kovalev as undefeated right now, the two phony losses in Organized Crimes' very own town, "Sin City", notwithstanding, as he clearly won the first Ward fight, and equally clearly Ward and his accomplice, dressed up in a referee suit, should have been DQ'd in the the second.

K vs. Beterbiev and Bivol would be two good fights!

Maybe there should be an “ifs and buts” thread, or even a separate forum section.

x2x wrote: ↑24 Dec 2017, 13:37 First off, I rate Kovalev as undefeated right now, the two phony losses in Organized Crimes' very own town, "Sin City", notwithstanding, as he clearly won the first Ward fight, and equally clearly Ward and his accomplice, dressed up in a referee suit, should have been DQ'd in the the second.

K vs. Beterbiev and Bivol would be two good fights!

Have another very Merry (butthurt) Christmas. Is that a family tradition?

x2x wrote: ↑24 Dec 2017, 13:37 First off, I rate Kovalev as undefeated right now, the two phony losses in Organized Crimes' very own town, "Sin City", notwithstanding, as he clearly won the first Ward fight, and equally clearly Ward and his accomplice, dressed up in a referee suit, should have been DQ'd in the the second.

K vs. Beterbiev and Bivol would be two good fights!

Tanzio wrote: ↑24 Dec 2017, 15:02

x2x wrote: ↑24 Dec 2017, 13:37 First off, I rate Kovalev as undefeated right now, the two phony losses in Organized Crimes' very own town, "Sin City", notwithstanding, as he clearly won the first Ward fight, and equally clearly Ward and his accomplice, dressed up in a referee suit, should have been DQ'd in the the second.

K vs. Beterbiev and Bivol would be two good fights!

Have another very Merry (butthurt) Christmas. Is that a family tradition?

You're butthurt Tanzio, because everyone knows Wards wins were fraudulent.

Kalan wrote: ↑26 Dec 2017, 05:00

Tanzio wrote: ↑24 Dec 2017, 15:02

x2x wrote: ↑24 Dec 2017, 13:37 First off, I rate Kovalev as undefeated right now, the two phony losses in Organized Crimes' very own town, "Sin City", notwithstanding, as he clearly won the first Ward fight, and equally clearly Ward and his accomplice, dressed up in a referee suit, should have been DQ'd in the the second.

K vs. Beterbiev and Bivol would be two good fights!

Have another very Merry (butthurt) Christmas. Is that a family tradition?

You're butthurt Tanzio, because everyone knows Wards wins were fraudulent.

SOGgy 2 - Krushedner 0. Historical record will accurately reflect reality.

You don’t even have consensus in this ridiculous thread, troll.

Beterbiev and Bivol both have pretty thin resumes and have been overhyped by the same overtly biased people who worship Kovalev. We're talking about a guy who is the current divisional #9 and a guy who is the current divisional #12. That would be like "If Jermell Charlo beat Sam Eggington and Brian Carlos Castano, would you finally give-in and admit that he's a top 10 all-time light middleweight?" Bivol's and Beterbiev's professional accomplishments ain't sh*t compared to Virgil Hill, Glen Johnson, Antonio Tarver, Clinton Woods, Montell Griffin, Chad Dawson, James Toney, Eddie Mustafa Muhammad, Dwight Muhammad Qawi, Matthew Saad Muhammad, Dick Tiger, Harold Johnson, Archie Moore, etc.

Lackeos wrote: ↑26 Dec 2017, 08:59 Beterbiev and Bivol both have pretty thin resumes and have been overhyped by the same overtly biased people who worship Kovalev. We're talking about a guy who is the current divisional #9 and a guy who is the current divisional #12. That would be like "If Jermell Charlo beat Sam Eggington and Brian Carlos Castano, would you finally give-in and admit that he's a top 10 all-time light middleweight?" Bivol's and Beterbiev's professional accomplishments ain't sh*t compared to Virgil Hill, Glen Johnson, Antonio Tarver, Clinton Woods, Montell Griffin, Chad Dawson, James Toney, Eddie Mustafa Muhammad, Dwight Muhammad Qawi, Matthew Saad Muhammad, Dick Tiger, Harold Johnson, Archie Moore, etc.

Nope. They are top LHW's and also they have titles. Beterbiev was/is avoided like plague and he had/has some legal issues with his promoter. Bivol is a young up and coming fighter who will test himself against Barrera.

apollo creed wrote: ↑26 Dec 2017, 09:29

Lackeos wrote: ↑26 Dec 2017, 08:59 Beterbiev and Bivol both have pretty thin resumes and have been overhyped by the same overtly biased people who worship Kovalev. We're talking about a guy who is the current divisional #9 and a guy who is the current divisional #12. That would be like "If Jermell Charlo beat Sam Eggington and Brian Carlos Castano, would you finally give-in and admit that he's a top 10 all-time light middleweight?" Bivol's and Beterbiev's professional accomplishments ain't sh*t compared to Virgil Hill, Glen Johnson, Antonio Tarver, Clinton Woods, Montell Griffin, Chad Dawson, James Toney, Eddie Mustafa Muhammad, Dwight Muhammad Qawi, Matthew Saad Muhammad, Dick Tiger, Harold Johnson, Archie Moore, etc.

Nope. They are top LHW's and also they have titles. Beterbiev was/is avoided like plague and he had/has some legal issues with his promoter. Bivol is a young up and coming fighter who will test himself against Barrera.

Oh, cool. Jeff Lacy was an up and coming fighter who would test himself against Calzaghe. Beating Jeff Lacy doesn't make a fighter top 10 all-time, though.

well the bert-barrera winner is prob around top 5. barrera is already 4 on boxrec, since u ppl are mentioning boxrec rankings. youd think the winner would be at least that. id regard the winner as better than lacy and castano and far better than egginton. actually lacy was one of calzaghes best wins anyway.

beterbiev gets a lot of hype and has a belt. plus hes been talked up as a kov boogeyman

id think if kov beat them most ppl would rate those wins highly and it would boost kovs p4p imagine and reputation.but then youd still get all the dickheads arguing with each other about kov vs ward.

'kov was robbed!'

'wah!!!!! wah!!!!! butthurt! buthurt!'

maybe there should be another section where they can just keep it to themselves

Lackeos wrote: ↑26 Dec 2017, 08:59 Beterbiev and Bivol both have pretty thin resumes and have been overhyped by the same overtly biased people who worship Kovalev. We're talking about a guy who is the current divisional #9 and a guy who is the current divisional #12. That would be like "If Jermell Charlo beat Sam Eggington and Brian Carlos Castano, would you finally give-in and admit that he's a top 10 all-time light middleweight?" Bivol's and Beterbiev's professional accomplishments ain't sh*t compared to Virgil Hill, Glen Johnson, Antonio Tarver, Clinton Woods, Montell Griffin, Chad Dawson, James Toney, Eddie Mustafa Muhammad, Dwight Muhammad Qawi, Matthew Saad Muhammad, Dick Tiger, Harold Johnson, Archie Moore, etc.

depends how u look at it. going by points barrera is actually like the equivalent of jermell charlo. id think him beating bivol or vice versa even would get him around laras points.

jamamb wrote: ↑26 Dec 2017, 19:38
...'kov was robbed!'

'wah!!!!! wah!!!!! butthurt! buthurt!'

maybe there should be another section where they can just keep it to themselves

You can do your kindergarten mocking from now to next Christmas but it doesn't alter the fact that he was. Twice. And he wasn't the first person to get robbed in Las Vegas.

Built in the Mohave desert by Bugsy Siegel and Meyer Lansky and their organized crime accomplices, the whole raison d'etre of Las Vegas is to rob people. Everything is fixed in that city, not just the odds in the casinos.

jamamb wrote: ↑26 Dec 2017, 19:58

Lackeos wrote: ↑26 Dec 2017, 08:59 Beterbiev and Bivol both have pretty thin resumes and have been overhyped by the same overtly biased people who worship Kovalev. We're talking about a guy who is the current divisional #9 and a guy who is the current divisional #12. That would be like "If Jermell Charlo beat Sam Eggington and Brian Carlos Castano, would you finally give-in and admit that he's a top 10 all-time light middleweight?" Bivol's and Beterbiev's professional accomplishments ain't sh*t compared to Virgil Hill, Glen Johnson, Antonio Tarver, Clinton Woods, Montell Griffin, Chad Dawson, James Toney, Eddie Mustafa Muhammad, Dwight Muhammad Qawi, Matthew Saad Muhammad, Dick Tiger, Harold Johnson, Archie Moore, etc.

depends how u look at it. going by points barrera is actually like the equivalent of jermell charlo. id think him beating bivol or vice versa even would get him around laras points.

I have some respect for Sullivan Barrera. But beating someone like Sullivan Barrera, Badou Jack, or Eleider Alvarez wouldn't make Kovalev divisional top 10 all-time. A divisional top 10 all-time resume is like...
Archie Moore: 3 wins over Joey Maxim (2021), Bobo Olson (1887), 4 wins over Harold Johnson (1004), 4 wins over Jimmy Bivins (794), Ron Richards (1168), Lloyd Marshall (1046), Giulio Rinaldi (1013)
Michael Spinks: Dwight Muhammad Qawi (1176), Eddie Mustafa Muhammad (638), 2 wins over Larry Holmes (588), past-it Yaqui Lopez (313)
Roy Jones Jr.: James Toney (815), Montell Griffin (579), Antonio Tarver (371), Vinny Pazienza (304), Mike McCallum (274), Virgil Hill (262), Clinton Woods (261), John Ruiz (398)
Andre Ward: 2 wins over Kovalev (839), Carl Froch (520), Mikkel Kessler (352), Chad Dawson (856), Arthur Abraham (218), probably not even worth mentioning Sullivan Barrera (91)
Bob Foster: Dick Tiger (1248), Vicente Rondon (767), Pierre Fourie (514), 2 wins over Chris Finnegan (340)

Lackeos wrote: ↑27 Dec 2017, 08:59

jamamb wrote: ↑26 Dec 2017, 19:58

Lackeos wrote: ↑26 Dec 2017, 08:59 Beterbiev and Bivol both have pretty thin resumes and have been overhyped by the same overtly biased people who worship Kovalev. We're talking about a guy who is the current divisional #9 and a guy who is the current divisional #12. That would be like "If Jermell Charlo beat Sam Eggington and Brian Carlos Castano, would you finally give-in and admit that he's a top 10 all-time light middleweight?" Bivol's and Beterbiev's professional accomplishments ain't sh*t compared to Virgil Hill, Glen Johnson, Antonio Tarver, Clinton Woods, Montell Griffin, Chad Dawson, James Toney, Eddie Mustafa Muhammad, Dwight Muhammad Qawi, Matthew Saad Muhammad, Dick Tiger, Harold Johnson, Archie Moore, etc.

depends how u look at it. going by points barrera is actually like the equivalent of jermell charlo. id think him beating bivol or vice versa even would get him around laras points.

I have some respect for Sullivan Barrera. But beating someone like Sullivan Barrera, Badou Jack, or Eleider Alvarez wouldn't make Kovalev divisional top 10 all-time. A divisional top 10 all-time resume is like...
Archie Moore: 3 wins over Joey Maxim (2021), Bobo Olson (1887), 4 wins over Harold Johnson (1004), 4 wins over Jimmy Bivins (794), Ron Richards (1168), Lloyd Marshall (1046), Giulio Rinaldi (1013)
Michael Spinks: Dwight Muhammad Qawi (1176), Eddie Mustafa Muhammad (638), 2 wins over Larry Holmes (588), past-it Yaqui Lopez (313)
Roy Jones Jr.: James Toney (815), Montell Griffin (579), Antonio Tarver (371), Vinny Pazienza (304), Mike McCallum (274), Virgil Hill (262), Clinton Woods (261), John Ruiz (398)
Andre Ward: 2 wins over Kovalev (839), Carl Froch (520), Mikkel Kessler (352), Chad Dawson (856), Arthur Abraham (218), probably not even worth mentioning Sullivan Barrera (91)
Bob Foster: Dick Tiger (1248), Vicente Rondon (767), Pierre Fourie (514), 2 wins over Chris Finnegan (340)

You forgot to ad RJJ's win over B-Hop.

I think Gene Tunney is worth mentioning, spending most of his career at LHW with wins over Harry Greb, Jack Dempsey, Tommy Gibbons, Battling Levinsky, to mention a few.