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Could be up for a really good debate.. Jokes welcome.. But I think we could see a lot of different answers..

Performances slipped post-Spinks.

Had uneven showings following his 90 second destruction of Spinks.

At that time it was probably more mental than physical.

Tyson was still very young and had taken little punishment in his career.

But he lost a lot of his drive and hunger once he became lineal champ, and achieved mainstream celebrity.

Post-Spinks, the Tyson party-years had begun, and his skills suffered.

SenorPipino wrote: ↑30 Dec 2017, 11:58 Performances slipped post-Spinks.

Had uneven showings following his 90 second destruction of Spinks.

At that time it was probably more mental than physical.

Tyson was still very young and had taken little punishment in his career.

But he lost a lot of his drive and hunger once he became lineal champ, and achieved mainstream celebrity.

Post-Spinks, the Tyson party-years had begun, and his skills suffered.

100%. The night he beat Spinks he looked unbeatable. But soon after the punches started coming one at a time. The bob and weave become more of a slip and counter.

He just stopped looking prepared. By the time he fought Ruddock he was standing in front of opponents and taking punches.

Tyson was in my view an ATG. But Holyfield had his number.

Tyson's peak ended after Spinks fight. He just started to decline technically. Phisically he was is his prime until 1997 (second Holyfield fight). Against Botha he looked awful before landing that huge right hand. I think it was the first time he looked clearly past his prime phisically - he was way slower than he was before.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑30 Dec 2017, 11:26 Could be up for a really good debate.. Jokes welcome.. But I think we could see a lot of different answers

The best answer is probably the Andrew Golota fight... For whatever reason he trained well and was in good shape for that fight -- though Golota was no threat to hurt him or outbox him... Mike was 34... That's the LAST time he looked like Iron Mike Tyson.. He hit the Foul Pole with fast and brutal punches that broke his face AND neck..

Golota couldn't hit the slippery Mike... That's why I believe Tyson would have murdered Riddick Bowe if he were as motivated... Those were hard, accurate shots... Golota's corner didn't believe he was badly hurt or had fractures in his face and neck when he insisted on quitting... He quit against big Michael Grant earlier so they thought he was a big sissy.

Well, Ruthless did say that jokes were welcome.

Here on boxrec the prime of a fighter typically ended the day before they suffered a defeat and they go straight from invincible prime to spent bullet in one day.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑30 Dec 2017, 23:05 Well, Ruthless did say that jokes were welcome

And lo and behold -- you showed up.

After he had fired Rooney. The 1st Bruno fight had already shown some troubles.

DrDuke wrote: ↑31 Dec 2017, 07:45 After he had fired Rooney. The 1st Bruno fight had already shown some troubles.

Technically he started to decline since Spinks fight, but phisycally he was excellent until his second excile from boxing. Look at his rematch with Bruno - Mike looked very, very good there. I think 1989-1997 version of Tyson was fighting on the same level - he didn't use as much head movement as he did when he was working with Kevin Rooney, he has become more predictable, but he was still very fast and explosive. Now, look at his fights against Botha and Norris in 1999 - his speed and explosivenes diminished hugely by then.

Boxing Writer wrote: ↑31 Dec 2017, 08:18

DrDuke wrote: ↑31 Dec 2017, 07:45 After he had fired Rooney. The 1st Bruno fight had already shown some troubles.

Technically he started to decline since Spinks fight, but phisycally he was excellent until his second excile from boxing. Look at his rematch with Bruno - Mike looked very, very good there. I think 1989-1997 version of Tyson was fighting on the same level - he didn't use as much head movement as he did when he was working with Kevin Rooney, he has become more predictable, but he was still very fast and explosive. Now, look at his fights against Botha and Norris in 1999 - his speed and explosivenes diminished hugely by then.

Well, yeah. In the 90's he was good, even while that shape wasn't his prime. After Holyfield he had begun to fade more and more. He had ups and downs then, but I'd say, he hadn't been able to regain truly goods shape. And against Botha he was pretty bad, despite the fact he had perfectly caught Botha.

By the time he fought Botha he was a shell of himself

So majority so far votes that it was pre-Douglas. After beating Spinks.

I still think he was good after his prison stint, but he wasn't at his peak best. Also, I think he had much less patience as a boxer and lost his hunger.

Its a tricky one this. He defo declined in terms of the number of punches he threw but it was oddly gradual for a fighter who had so many problems outside the ring. I tend to consider that maybe he opponents were not as good when he first came up and heavys got bigger and better. The mid 80s guys were a pretty poor bunch and it was very apparent how much faster and bigger and stronger evander seemed when he fought mike.

cfang wrote: ↑01 Jan 2018, 08:47 Its a tricky one this. He defo declined in terms of the number of punches he threw but it was oddly gradual for a fighter who had so many problems outside the ring. I tend to consider that maybe he opponents were not as good when he first came up and heavys got bigger and better. The mid 80s guys were a pretty poor bunch and it was very apparent how much faster and bigger and stronger evander seemed when he fought mike.

Terrific post. It sort of ties into a theory that I have, something that seemed to take hold in the latter half of the 90's re "The Unseen" hand. Of the 80's lot, I tend to believe they were better and more talented than they are generally remembered, and not quite the stumble bums the media of the time often made them out to be. GREAT point on how much bigger, faster and stronger Evander seemed to be, especially relative to how much smaller he later seemed to be, in and around 1992-onwards.

golden oldie wrote: ↑01 Jan 2018, 08:48

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑01 Jan 2018, 06:17 So majority so far votes that it was pre-Douglas. After beating Spinks.

I still think he was good after his prison stint, but he wasn't at his peak best. Also, I think he had much less patience as a boxer and lost his hunger.

But the underlined above means very little or nothing to be honest, because Tysons more fanatical followers would rather eat their own legs, than face up to the fact Buster Douglas took a prime Tyson, beat the living shitt out of him, exposed his limitations, then KO'd him, wouldn't they?

How many fanatic followers has Tyson got on these forums?

Ned Merrill wrote: ↑01 Jan 2018, 11:00

cfang wrote: ↑01 Jan 2018, 08:47 Its a tricky one this. He defo declined in terms of the number of punches he threw but it was oddly gradual for a fighter who had so many problems outside the ring. I tend to consider that maybe he opponents were not as good when he first came up and heavys got bigger and better. The mid 80s guys were a pretty poor bunch and it was very apparent how much faster and bigger and stronger evander seemed when he fought mike.

Terrific post. It sort of ties into a theory that I have, something that seemed to take hold in the latter half of the 90's re "The Unseen" hand. Of the 80's lot, I tend to believe they were better and more talented than they are generally remembered, and not quite the stumble bums the media of the time often made them out to be. GREAT point on how much bigger, faster and stronger Evander seemed to be, especially relative to how much smaller he later seemed to be, in and around 1992-onwards.

Thanks mate. It just seemed like Tyson back in the mid/late 80s although smaller than most, was stronger and more powerful than anyone. Couldn't really see anyone bullying him. Then against Evander, he looked half as wide and much smaller and less muscular. Evander was bigger and stronger in those fights. Tyson would be trouble for anyone due to the fast hands and power but I do wonder if you put the Tyson that faced Evander in with people like Briggs and Pinklon Thomas and Truth Williams, he'd do a similar number on them as he did when he was younger.

The shortest prime in history according to most.

I think he showed signs of slipping after Spinks, and I don't know if he was so much " past prime" as he was " damaged goods." By the end of 1988 his entire original team was gone, I.e. Kevin Rooney, Bill Cayton, Cus D'Amato, Jim Jacobs, etc... he was looking bad in sparring.. Staying out all night within close proximity of fights. The motivation wasn't there anymore. He even showed signs of laziness in the ring by abandoning a lot of his upper body movement and combination punching to chase guys down with single shots.

If you looked close enough, you could see some of the weaknesses early on, before Cus, Teddy, Kevin and the gang left and Tyosn became the first fighter to have a new trainer.
Some interesting comments here. I would say that it ended with the Ruddock fights. He did have some moments after he came back from prison. The Bruno fights was one of the best of his career. He was probably at 90% (to Holyfield's 80%) when lost to Holyfield. After that, he fought several stiffs for several years. We really didn't know what he had left going into the Lewis fight because he had not been tested for so long.

Tyson is a lightning rod. The "Mike fans" seem to think that he blew everyone out early (he didn't) before the Douglas fight. Then there are excuses.
Many of the anti-Tyson people come up with the bully theory, which I don't buy either. He had a lot of strengths and some weaknesses.

As I have said before Tyson is a polarizing figure. He has people who worship him and and have excuses for everything. Then you have the opposite. With the exception of Ali and Leonard, there has been more Tyson "haters" on this Forum than anyone else. Just mention his name in passing and often people get all bent out of shape.

Like many, I loathe him as a person. However, we need to rate fighters how good they are whether or not I like them. As a fighter, Tyson was not as good as the "fanboys" say and better than the "haters" say.

I believe Mike Tyson never reached his prime. However I believe Tyson was at his best 1988, just before The first Frank Bruno fight.

After the Spinks fight in 1987 Mike Tyson was never the same fighter.

Bruno had a great chance against him imo looking back now but as things were hidden at the time it wasnt clear then.

If Mike Tyson was handled correctly after 1986 he would have beaten Marciano's record and gone on to be an all time great.

In my opinion Tyson of 1986 would have beaten anyone in history. 1988 onward he was an ordinary fighter. But no one took advantage until 1990.

After 1990 it was all over anyway.

tiny_acres wrote: ↑01 Jan 2018, 15:34 The shortest prime in history according to most.

Not as short as Buster Douglas' prime.

Sometime in Prison I'd say

mimmy123 wrote: ↑02 Jan 2018, 13:07 I believe Mike Tyson never reached his prime. However I believe Tyson was at his best 1988, just before The first Frank Bruno fight.

After the Spinks fight in 1987 Mike Tyson was never the same fighter.

Bruno had a great chance against him imo looking back now but as things were hidden at the time it wasnt clear then.

If Mike Tyson was handled correctly after 1986 he would have beaten Marciano's record and gone on to be an all time great.

In my opinion Tyson of 1986 would have beaten anyone in history. 1988 onward he was an ordinary fighter. But no one took advantage until 1990.

After 1990 it was all over anyway.

He was at his best in 1988. I think 1988 version of Tyson looked definitely better than 1987 one. He demolished Holmes, Tubbs and Spinks in 1988. Bruno fight has happened in 1989. And he wasn't an ordinary fighter after Spinks. He was still very good until his second excile from boxing (after Holyfield rematch). Even after the prison he completely annihilated Bruno, who beat Lewis' conqueror Oliver McCall right before. He was still very fast and explosive in 1995-1997. I think 1989-1997 version of Tyson was about 80% of his best one (1988). Since 1999 (Botha and Norris fights) it has became evident that he is done.