BoxRec

Personally I think we could put together a better map; why no Japanese fighter, why no Thai?

Well Limond isn't Scotland best

Lennox Lewis is not England's best. It is the great Bob Fitzsimmons.
Joe Calzaghe is not Wales' best. It is the great Jimmy Wilde.
Steve Collins is not Ireland's best. It is the great Jimmy McLarnin
You want Ken Buchanan go to your house and kill you? Willie Limond? WTF! The great Benny Lynch is Scotland's greatest boxer ever.

George Chuvalo the best in Canada? Try the great Sam Langford.

Lomachenko is the best fighter from Ukraine, Wladimir Klitschko is the most accomplished. So it's definitely not Vitali

Russia - Kovalev, Brazil - Jofre, Canada - Langford, Poland - Adamek, Germany - Schmeling

golden oldie wrote: ↑13 Jan 2018, 18:06

elmersalsa wrote: ↑13 Jan 2018, 14:29 Lennox Lewis is not England's best. It is the great Bob Fitzsimmons.

P4P there is a very strong case to be made.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑13 Jan 2018, 14:29 Lennox Lewis is not England's best. It is the great Bob Fitzsimmons.
Joe Calzaghe is not Wales' best. It is the great Jimmy Wilde.
Steve Collins is not Ireland's best. It is the great Jimmy McLarnin
You want Ken Buchanan go to your house and kill you? Willie Limond? WTF! The great Benny Lynch is Scotland's greatest boxer ever.

Collins was good but McLarnin was much better. Willie Limond? It must be a joke. Fitzsimmons and Wilde were great, great fighters. Lewis and Calzaghe were excellent too. It's hard to compare fighters, divided by so long time span, but I think I'd chose Fitz and Wilde. I think Fitz was the probably the best (and definitely top-3) P4P fighter until Greb

Is this a joke ?

golden oldie wrote: ↑13 Jan 2018, 18:06

elmersalsa wrote: ↑13 Jan 2018, 14:29 Lennox Lewis is not England's best. It is the great Bob Fitzsimmons.

Lennox Lewis is the best heavyweight boxer that ever come out of England. But, pound per pound, cannot match the great Bob Fitzsimmons' accomplishments. Fitzsimmons to me, is a top 15 pound per pound ATG. I don't see Lewis so far in the top 100 pound per pound list.

The best of England so far:
1. Bob Fitzsimmons
2. Jack "Kid" Berg
3. Ted "Kid" Lewis
4. Lennox Lewis

elmersalsa wrote: ↑13 Jan 2018, 22:07 Fitzsimmons to me, is a top 15 pound per pound ATG. I don't see Lewis so far in the top 100 pound per pound list.

The best of England so far:
1. Bob Fitzsimmons
2. Jack "Kid" Berg
3. Ted "Kid" Lewis
4. Lennox Lewis

I'll go a step further, I think FItz is a viable candidate for top P4P of all time. Though I'm biased because I like his era.

A lot of his wins he doesn't really get as much credit for as he likely should. Jack Dempsey was considered the greatest P4P fighter, and Fitz destroyed him. Austalian Billy McCarthy seems nearly totally forgotten, but I saw in a news report in his fight with Dempsey that he was regarded as the No.1 Middleweight in australia.

[tangent]I saw a later article claim McCarthy held the middleweight title as a bareknuckle fighter, but it also said some stuff that wasn't true. It also claimed he fought the enigmatic Woolf Bendoff for the middleweight title, though I haven't seen anything else saying they even fought. That period really is a dark age, especially outside america. I hope more can be found out about it.[/tangent]

BitPlayer wrote: ↑14 Jan 2018, 11:13Austalian Billy McCarthy seems nearly totally forgotten, but I saw in a news report in his fight with Dempsey that he was regarded as the No.1 Middleweight in australia.

[tangent]I saw a later article claim McCarthy held the middleweight title as a bareknuckle fighter, but it also said some stuff that wasn't true. It also claimed he fought the enigmatic Woolf Bendoff for the middleweight title, though I haven't seen anything else saying they even fought. That period really is a dark age, especially outside america. I hope more can be found out about it.[/tangent]

I am not sure of the original intent of this article but it referenced several fights that took place at Coney Island, I cut out the excerpt regarding Billy McCarthy I thought you might enjoy reading it. I could not find the original March article it references.

Argentina - Carlos Monzon
Ghana - Ike Quartey
Kazakhstan - Gennady Golovkin
Namibia - Julius Indongo
Latvia - Mairis Briedis
Panama - Roberto Duran

Slovenia - Jan Zaveck

You can’t possibly have quartey over nelson?!?

littlepug wrote: ↑13 Jan 2018, 12:31Well Limond isn't Scotland best

Agreed, he shouldn't even be included in that conversation. Am I might be wrong, but I don't even think he was a World Champion.

In that regard, you have to put the likes of Ken Buchanan, Alex Arthur & Ricky Burns ahead of him - and they are just a few I named off the top of my head...

orbtastic wrote: ↑15 Jan 2018, 04:38 You can’t possibly have quartey over nelson?!?

You're right, I can't. That was a massive brain fart.

Dick Tiger-Nigeria, Brian Mitchell-South Africa

I was struggling to think of another world champ from Nigeria. Bassey, maybe?

Harry Simon, Namibia.

Vic D, Armenia.

Marcel Cerdan, Algeria (or France, depending on your POV).

Fighting Harada, Japan.

Nino Benvinuti, Italy.

Khaosai Galaxy, Thailand.

Wilfredo Gomez, Puerto Rico.

Alexis Arguello, Nicaragua.

Kid Chocolate, Cuba.

Jeff Fenech, Australia.

Orzubek Nazarov, Kyrgyzstan.

orbtastic wrote: ↑15 Jan 2018, 08:18 I was struggling to think of another world champ from Nigeria. Bassey, maybe?

Samuel Peter

Sumbu Kalambay, Congo (Italy adopted him), on balance a better boxer than Wamba.
Mike McCallum, Jamaica (think it's on that map).
Ayub Kalule, Uganda (Denmark adopted him)
Emile Griffith, US Virgin Islands. Unlucky, Julian Jackson.

APerno wrote: ↑14 Jan 2018, 18:40

BitPlayer wrote: ↑14 Jan 2018, 11:13Austalian Billy McCarthy seems nearly totally forgotten, but I saw in a news report in his fight with Dempsey that he was regarded as the No.1 Middleweight in australia.

[tangent]I saw a later article claim McCarthy held the middleweight title as a bareknuckle fighter, but it also said some stuff that wasn't true. It also claimed he fought the enigmatic Woolf Bendoff for the middleweight title, though I haven't seen anything else saying they even fought. That period really is a dark age, especially outside america. I hope more can be found out about it.[/tangent]

I am not sure of the original intent of this article but it referenced several fights that took place at Coney Island, I cut out the excerpt regarding Billy McCarthy I thought you might enjoy reading it. I could not find the original March article it references.

Interesting. Is that the Jack McGee (Jack Magee)? I remember seeing he had a section in the police Gazette sporting annual, but he seems pretty forgotten, though not to the extent of some)

orbtastic wrote: ↑15 Jan 2018, 08:18 I was struggling to think of another world champ from Nigeria. Bassey, maybe?

Harry Simon, Namibia.

Vic D, Armenia.

Marcel Cerdan, Algeria (or France, depending on your POV).

Fighting Harada, Japan.

Nino Benvinuti, Italy.

Khaosai Galaxy, Thailand.

Wilfredo Gomez, Puerto Rico.

Alexis Arguello, Nicaragua.

Kid Chocolate, Cuba.

Jeff Fenech, Australia.

Orzubek Nazarov, Kyrgyzstan.

Obviously with a country as rich with Boxing history as Cuba you could have an argument there, but all the other choices are hard to dispute I'd say.

I think it's fair to say GGG is the best that's come from Kazakhstan

I can't say I recall any other fighters from Montenegro so Dejan Zlaticanin probably gets that one by default

Same goes for Leonard Dorin of Romania...I don't recall any other Romanian fighter of note.

Mikkel Kessler - Denmark

orbtastic wrote: ↑15 Jan 2018, 08:29 Sumbu Kalambay, Congo (Italy adopted him), on balance a better boxer than Wamba.
Mike McCallum, Jamaica (think it's on that map).
Ayub Kalule, Uganda (Denmark adopted him)
Emile Griffith, US Virgin Islands. Unlucky, Julian Jackson.

Seriously what are the odds for poor Julian. I almost put Julian, but I had forgotten about Emile being from there. Emile definitely has to rank ahead of Jackson, but The Hawk was a lot more exciting to watch, and much more explosive.