BoxRec

How do you see this toe to toe slugfest going ?

Easy to imagine a lot of different scenarios. Frazier was often a slow starter, so there an outside chance Marciano could jump on him and stop him early. There are similarities to their styles. However, Frazier was better defensively and was a a more accurate puncher. Would have to lean towards him. It would have been great to watch.

Frazier is way too big and strong for Marciano.... Rocky struggled with Light Heavyweight....

Ezzard Charles fought many fights as a Middleweight... He reached his peak as a Light Heavyweight.... He was washed up. He'd been knocked out several times and lost to Light Heavyweight Harold Johnson and super slow Heavyweight Nino Valdes in 1953... That's why Rocky fought him in 1954.... He couldn't knock him out in 15 rounds in their 1st fight.

Middleweight Randy Turpin got an easy KO win over Don Cockell... Feather punching Light Heavyweight Jimmy Slade knocked Don Cockell out in 4 rounds after thoroughly stomping him... Cockell got knocked out about 13 times or so... It took Rocky Marciano 9 rounds to knock Cockell out after Slade and Turpin knocked him out.

Archie Moore was about 40 years old... He'd been knocked out several times and was knocked down about 30 times in his career for an all time record... Floyd Patterson got him out in 5 rounds and didn't get knocked to the canvas like Rocky did... It took Rocky 9 rounds to KO the old Light Heavyweight.

ATG Light Heavyweight Bob Foster weighed a solid 188 for his fight with Joe Frazier.... That was more than Rocky Marciano weighed for most of his important fights.... Frazier crushed Big Bob (6'4" tall) in 2 rounds without even trying.

Small Heavyweights who Frazier fought got beaten to trash: -- Jerry Quarry (195) Jimmy Ellis (197) Dave Zyglewitz (190) Terry Daniels (194) Manuel Ramos (208) Tony Doyle (197) -- he had no trouble with little slow guys like Rocky.... A bigger and more powerful guy like George Foreman (6'3" X 217) bounced Frazier around like a basketball, knocking him down 6 times and getting rid of him pronto (2 rounds) .... Rocky wasn't a threat.

I'd expect Marciano to take advantage of Frazier's slow start by winning the early rounds. Frazier would start to get going in the latter half of the 3rd round as he was known to do, and by the 5th or 6th he'd be busting up Marciano's face. I can see some knockdowns for Joe on the smaller Marciano, but I'd expect Rocky to keep gamely coming forward and punching it out with Joe.

Ultimately I think Joe would be too strong for Rocky, and would either stop him via KO or just bust him up until the fight gets stopped.

Was Frazier a slow starter???? .... His signature boast was "I'm coming out smoking." .... In other words - "I'm starting fast"

He stopped Zyglewicz in 1 with a thunderous left hook... Stopped Foster in 2 with a thunderous left hook.... Stopped super tough Chuvalo in 3 rounds basically. Chuvalo came out for the 4th at the urging of his corner - but the first shots he took he turned his back on Frazier and quit - 16 seconds into the round... He was beaten to trash quickly... Chuvalo told reporters..."Frazier fights 6 minutes a round... He doesn't let you breathe." ... That's what I call smoking.

Rocky couldn't have gotten those guys out so fast because he was too short, little, and stumpy... Marciano started slow against old man Walcott... He got knocked down in the 1st round and was behind after a few rounds... He also got started slow against Moore where he got decked early and took a while go get his game in gear... He also got started slow against Charles, and got behind early.. Rocky wasn't one to "come out smoking" -- he pretty much came out plodding.

Let's put it this way, Ali himself said: "Marciano was greater than Joe Frazier and you seen what Joe did with me." Hell even Frazier rated Marciano as the #2 heavyweight behind Joe Louis.

I think it'd be a tough fight, sure, but Marciano's punch rate went UP rather than down as the rounds went on, and he fought harder and fiercely when confronted with hard challenges.

Idk where people say he struggled with this person or that person. The only guy who made Rocky look vulnerable was Walcott in the first fight, but eventually The Rock found his target. The first Charles fight, despite going the distance, wasn't even close. Rocky won like 9 rounds of that contest with 2-3 even and the rest were Charles.

People bring up Moore, and I'll never know why, because had the fight happened in our time it'd of been stopped in 4-6 rounds because Archie was taking a brutal blasting.

I'm not underestimating Frazier, don't get me wrong. But I think if Frazier was well conditioned, Marciano was twice as much. If Frazier hit hard, especially with the left hook, Marciano was dynamite with both hands. Both men were virtually the same size in height, and weight (Marciano was walking around at Frazier's fighting weight) and the only difference between them really is reach.

If Marciano could overcome reach issues with men like Walcott, who probably could have outboxed Frazier H2H, I see no issue in Marciano overcoming Frazier's reach. It'd go the whole 12-15 rounds. I'd lean towards Marciano simply because of his sheer punch rate being superior to Frazier's.

Even though only about 10 years separates their careers, they share no common opppnents and I will go so far as to say neither man really fought anyone particuarily similar.

I don’t know who is the stronger man is.

Marciano’s greatest disadvantage, specifically his arm reach, is not going to be a factor.
He will not need to find Frazier, Frazier will be right in front of him. As much as Frazier moves his head, he will not be moving his body.
Marciano would be able to land Suzie Q and Frazier would land hooks.

So would a Marciano body attack hurt Frazier before Frazier’s hooks do some real nasty damage?

I say it’s a very even fight.

I say it's a slaughterhouse job... Frazier was a butcher in his last day job .... so It's another day at the office.

Somebody that easy to hit isn't going to stay in there with a much bigger man... Chuvalo was a bigger man than Frazier, but slow like Rocky and easy to hit... He was done after 3 rounds -- face crushed, he meekly turned his back and quit 16 seconds into the 4th... Remember, Don Cockell was knocked out by Randy Turpin... Rocky fought little guys.

Rocky took 9 rounds to get rid of the flabby, soft punching, very soft chinned Cockell... He's not going to move Frazier.

Kalan wrote: ↑16 Jan 2018, 20:22 I say it's a slaughterhouse job... Frazier was a butcher in his last day job .... so It's another day at the office.

Somebody that easy to hit isn't going to stay in there with a much bigger man... Chuvalo was a bigger man than Frazier, but slow like Rocky and easy to hit... He was done after 3 rounds -- face crushed, he meekly turned his back and quit 16 seconds into the 4th... Remember, Don Cockell was knocked out by Randy Turpin... Rocky fought little guys.

Rocky took 9 rounds to get rid of the flabby, soft punching, very soft chinned Cockell... He's not going to move Frazier.

Objectively, with Richard Steele as the referee, how long does the cockell fight last?
How many punches, on average, did Rocky throw in a round compared to Chuvalo? If there was compubox what do you suppose the output would be?

Did Chuvalo punch as short as Marciano?

What difference in weight do you think Frazier would be if he trained to lose as much weight
as Marciano did? Do you think Frazier is perhaps a little heavy at 215?

Contendeh wrote: ↑16 Jan 2018, 21:00

Kalan wrote: ↑16 Jan 2018, 20:22 I say it's a slaughterhouse job... Frazier was a butcher in his last day job .... so It's another day at the office.

Somebody that easy to hit isn't going to stay in there with a much bigger man... Chuvalo was a bigger man than Frazier, but slow like Rocky and easy to hit... He was done after 3 rounds -- face crushed, he meekly turned his back and quit 16 seconds into the 4th... Remember, Don Cockell was knocked out by Randy Turpin... Rocky fought little guys.

Rocky took 9 rounds to get rid of the flabby, soft punching, very soft chinned Cockell... He's not going to move Frazier.

Objectively, with Richard Steele as the referee, how long does the cockell fight last?
How many punches, on average, did Rocky throw in a round compared to Chuvalo? If there was compubox what do you suppose the output would be?

Did Chuvalo punch as short as Marciano?

What difference in weight do you think Frazier would be if he trained to lose as much weight
as Marciano did? Do you think Frazier is perhaps a little heavy at 215?

With Steele as referee it still goes 9 rounds . No reason to stop it cuz Rocky wasn't breaking his face ..... Frazier broke Chuvalo's face... The referee or corner didn't stop it... Chuvalo quit cuz his face was done. Joe got him w/ short hooks... Marciano was floored by a left hook from old Joe Walcott and a right hand from little old Archie Moore.

Marciano didn't throw as many punches as prime Frazier. When Joe came out smoking he threw more and quicker.

Chuvalo punched real short but missed a lot like Rocky did. He wasn't fast. Neither was Marciano.

Frazier was real fat at 215 -- but we're talking lean, prime Frazier vs Chuvalo .... 205 was his best versus 184 for Rocky.... Neither was fat or out-of-shape at those weights if they did the full training schedule they're supposed to do.

Kalan wrote: ↑16 Jan 2018, 21:41

Contendeh wrote: ↑16 Jan 2018, 21:00

Kalan wrote: ↑16 Jan 2018, 20:22 I say it's a slaughterhouse job... Frazier was a butcher in his last day job .... so It's another day at the office.

Somebody that easy to hit isn't going to stay in there with a much bigger man... Chuvalo was a bigger man than Frazier, but slow like Rocky and easy to hit... He was done after 3 rounds -- face crushed, he meekly turned his back and quit 16 seconds into the 4th... Remember, Don Cockell was knocked out by Randy Turpin... Rocky fought little guys.

Rocky took 9 rounds to get rid of the flabby, soft punching, very soft chinned Cockell... He's not going to move Frazier.

Objectively, with Richard Steele as the referee, how long does the cockell fight last?
How many punches, on average, did Rocky throw in a round compared to Chuvalo? If there was compubox what do you suppose the output would be?

Did Chuvalo punch as short as Marciano?

What difference in weight do you think Frazier would be if he trained to lose as much weight
as Marciano did? Do you think Frazier is perhaps a little heavy at 215?

With Steele as referee it still goes 9 rounds . No reason to stop it cuz Rocky wasn't breaking his face ..... Frazier broke Chuvalo's face... The referee or corner didn't stop it... Chuvalo quit cuz his face was done. Joe got him w/ short hooks... Marciano was floored by a left hook from old Joe Walcott and a right hand from little old Archie Moore.

Marciano didn't throw as many punches as prime Frazier. When Joe came out smoking he threw more and quicker.

Chuvalo punched real short but missed a lot like Rocky did. He wasn't fast. Neither was Marciano.

Frazier was real fat at 215 -- but we're talking lean, prime Frazier vs Chuvalo .... 205 was his best versus 184 for Rocky.... Neither was fat or out-of-shape at those weights if they did the full training schedule they're supposed to do.

Well, we agree Frazier was overweight at 215,
205 vs 188 that’s about 8 percent?
That’s the second time I’ve done math on this website today...and I’ve always enjoyed watching two guys slug it out moreso than math.

I could go on a math site and bring up boxing?

I really don’t think Chuvalo is a good stylistic comparison...he’s a Marciano simulacrum.
In the Frazier scenario, he takes more punishment than Rocky because he’s not as low and, to me, he doesn’t work the body or punch as short or as much. Much being the key.

I think both Philly and Brockton had comparable power. I think accumulative power is the key for both.

Body shots take your power away. So conceivably, working the body will sap power from both and it would come down to stamina. I can’t say who had better stamina.

Ringo knocked down joe. Twice. Please don’t tell me Ringo hit harder than Rocky because
Ringo was 5’10 and 207 and rocky was 5’10 and a whippet 188.

Archie and jersey joe were cuties. Both smart. And I am sorry to do this, but I do it with respect:
Anthony Joshua got knocked down by a 41 year old wlad.

Joshua was in more trouble than Marciano was either time.
No, that does not mean I want to compare wlad and tony against joe and Rocky. Just the two with the two.

I am merely saying a hypothetical Frazier v Marciano fight could be a real barn burner, I am not picking one over the other.

Contendeh wrote: ↑16 Jan 2018, 23:04 205 vs 188 that’s about 8 percent?

No it's NOT about 8 percent. It's OVER 9 percent... That's like saying Frazier was "about" as big as Foreman -- because his best weight was 205 to 217 which was the best weight Foreman achieved as far as perfect conditioning goes.... But in fact Foreman was significantly bigger and stronger and that's why he smashed Frazier so quickly - even though his rock hard ripped weight was only about 6% heavier than Frazier's best weight... Frazier was a little pudgy for that fight at 214.

But lets be completely honest instead of fact fudging... Was Marciano at his best at 188? Not really. His most solid weight was 184. so he was over 11% smaller.... But let's move on to another item... Frazier was significantly faster and tougher than Rocky like he was versus Jerry Quarry... I actually believe Quarry at his best might have beaten Marciano cuz Quarry weighed 200 for Ron Lyle and he was a very solid, sharp, and fast puncher at the weight... I've never seen Rocky move or box well like Quarry... Joe Frazier was so much bigger than Rocky that he wouldn't get decked by an old Light Heavy like Moore.. Had Archie been more "prime time" his fights with Marciano and Patterson might have been different... He got run over by Rocky and Floyd because he started pro as a Welterweight and had the wear of 175 fights on him.

Bob Foster---who weighed a solid 188 against Frazier---was blown away in 2 rounds.. Foster, was perhaps the greatest puncher in the History of the Light Heavyweight Division. He nailed Frazier with massive head shots... It wasn't like Foreman was hitting Joe.... Smokin' Joe walked right through those shots and the much smaller Marciano wasn't able to even walk though Ancient Archie Moore's punches like Patterson did... Archie decked Rocky because he was roughly the same size.

But wouldn’t you say that foster was most effective against his light heavyweight opponents because of his ability to fight at range and use his punch from a distance? That he fought at nearly 6’4 which is really tall at lt Heavy.
His way of fighting Frazier was to keep him at bay. Once Frazier got in on him, he lost.
Obviously Marciano is not going to be at a disadvantage like Foster on the inside.

Terrell vs Foster was a jab athon. Actually, Terrell gets in on Foster. But they were two, tall, rail thin guys who used jabs, height and distance - not at all Moore or Marciano comparisons.

Quarry’s main strength was in his counter punching. Completely different as well.
Quarry is a good example how Frazier, for whatever reason, would drop the first round (like he did vs Ellis, also Mathis, I think...been a minute for me on that fight).

Comparing Marciano to Chuvalo works better, even if one is a cadallic and the other is a Buick.

Comparing Quarry to Marciano is like comparing a boat to a helicopter.

In addition, 217 may not have been George’s best weight at all. Though his great comeback was certainly, in part, carnival attraction, George has always maintained that he was too overtrained, too thin, and lacked too much water weight in Zaire.

I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that you think those were there words of a 245 lb guy glossing over his reluctance to train.

Marciano.

Frazier fought a lot of 10 rounders... The Rock always had the stamina to go 15 rounders... I'd give it to Marciano.

The distance didn't matter cuz Rocky wouldn't get to the 10th... Chuvalo saw 16 seconds of the 4th and "NO MAS" baby.

Frazier would have destroyed every one of Marciano's opponents. Smokin’ won 10 straight Heavyweight Championship Fights against much tougher challengers than Marciano faced... It wasn't til Joe fought the "wrong dude” that he was exposed...

A massacre such as Foreman-Frazier needs 2 ingredients – a hittable guy and a guy who could hit. In the case of Frazier v Marciano – Rocky would be the hitee. Let’s face facts – if you can’t get Light Heavyweights out pronto you’re not moving Frazier. I'd like to see an old Light Heavyweight knock a prime Joe Frazier down.

How long do you figure feather hitting 184-pound Roland LaStarza would be standing if he faced Smokin’ Joe Frazier??? A minute? 2 minutes? One thing you can say about Marciano was that he was well managed and matched.

LaStarza puffed his record with patsies. A couple fights before he faced Marciano he lost to neophyte Light Heavyweight Rocky Jones 14-9-2. LaStarza was knocked on his can in the rematch but managed to win a 10 round decision. Jones went on to lose 5 straight, including a 1-round KO loss to Footballer Charlie Powell, who was making his 10th start.

Contendeh wrote: ↑17 Jan 2018, 09:30 Comparing Marciano to Chuvalo works better, even if one is a cadallic and the other is a Buick .....

Comparing Quarry to Marciano is like comparing a boat to a helicopter .....

In addition, 217 may not have been George’s best weight at all ..... I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that you think those were there words of a 245 lb guy glossing over his reluctance to train

Marciano was no Cadillac... He was a Volkswagen... Frazier was a Sherman Tank in comparison.

I'm not sure with your boat vs helicopter for the Quarry V Marciano comparison... A helicopter lands on a boat??? Is that it?Quarry was bigger, faster, and sharper than Marciano at his best.... The Quarry who faced Thad Spencer would win.

Foreman was 220 for Ali but started camp at 280... That's a disaster in the making... The 217 he weighed for Frazier saw him coming down from around a slender 230 or so... There's a big difference... You don't spend the whole camp adjusting to different weights and can get a couple hundred rounds of sparring in with a long camp where you start in shape... You're already fast and strong and you get stronger...

The ideal thing is to GAIN weight in camp because you're lifting weighs and eating regular, expertly cooked meals... When you're NOT in training you're skipping meals, eating in restaurants, not getting the greatest food, and running around like crazy, trying to get all the things done you don't have time for in camp... You could also eat fatburgers and pizza and just let your weight go straight to Hell while you run around chasing tail.... That catches up to you.

Fat is not better than lean for a boxer... Your frame should determine how much you weigh, and you should weigh the least possible so you have a size, strength and endurance advantage for your division... Heavyweights can weigh whatever they want... But if the Foreman who fought Moorer faced the Foreman who won the Title against Frazier -- and George had the same experience and knowledge as the older Foreman??? It would be a destruction.

George knew a Hell of lot more at 45 than he did at 24 -- so he would have a really big mental edge... The younger George had a massive physical edge that can't be denied... Look what leaner and meaner Michael Moorer did to Foreman for 10 rounds until the cagey old lion sprung his trap on the chinny, naive kid.... That's the last KO shot George ever threw.

Considering I ALWAYS thought Bonavena got robbed against Frazier in the first fight, and I believe most would agree that Marciano was superior to Ringo, that whether it's 10, 12, or 15 rounds Marciano gives Frazier alot of problems because of his incredible work rate.

When you have a guy averaging 85 punches a round, and sometimes throwing 150 punches per round... That's gonna sway judges considerably... Frazier threw what? 45-50 punches per round? Besides, if a guy like Ron Stander could buckle Frazier's legs at one point, then Marciano could do much, much, much better.

“I’m not sure with your boat vs helicopter for the Quarry V Marciano comparison... A helicopter lands on a boat???”

That is hilarious! Good on you brother, that made me laugh. Well done!

Ok, to sum up:

We both think Mike Weaver is an over looked heavy who deserves to be more than a footnote.

I think John Tate is one of heavyweight history’s saddest, greatest “what if’s” who was poorly managed - you think much less of him.

I think Larry Holmes lost his edge after the Witherspoon fight and should have unified
against Coetzee in 1984 or at least fought a Page v Witherspoon winner to keep the belts at two, not giving legitimacy to a third (IBF) - you think Larry is champ and none of those guys did enough to warrant a defense and who cares what belt he had. He was champ.

I think Marciano would hold his own against Frazier and would consider it a dream matchup - you think Frazier much too tough
and might take a nap during the bout as the Rocky loss would be a forgone conclusion.

All good stuff!

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑17 Jan 2018, 17:49 Considering I ALWAYS thought Bonavena got robbed against Frazier in the first fight, and I believe most would agree that Marciano was superior to Ringo, that whether it's 10, 12, or 15 rounds Marciano gives Frazier alot of problems because of his incredible work rate.

When you have a guy averaging 85 punches a round, and sometimes throwing 150 punches per round... That's gonna sway judges considerably... Frazier threw what? 45-50 punches per round? Besides, if a guy like Ron Stander could buckle Frazier's legs at one point, then Marciano could do much, much, much better.

I agree with you, Mr Armstrong.
Joe did much better in the second fight though. Which brings up a potential Rocky v Frazier trilogy!
Nice, when a first fight is close that fighters agree to a rematch.
It’s the right thing to do...just don’t tell a 35 year old Larry Holmes that!

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑17 Jan 2018, 17:49 Considering I ALWAYS thought Bonavena got robbed against Frazier in the first fight, and I believe most would agree that Marciano was superior to Ringo, that whether it's 10, 12, or 15 rounds Marciano gives Frazier alot of problems because of his incredible work rate.

When you have a guy averaging 85 punches a round, and sometimes throwing 150 punches per round... That's gonna sway judges considerably... Frazier threw what? 45-50 punches per round? Besides, if a guy like Ron Stander could buckle Frazier's legs at one point, then Marciano could do much, much, much better

LOL.... Forget it Henry.... I think you KNOW why that argument WON'T fly....

Frazier only had 11 fights when he fought Bonavena the 1st time... Oscar already fought Folley, Gorgetti, Peralta, and was coming off a win over Chuvalo when he fought his 24th fight against Frazier... So he had more than twice the professional experience... Frazier landed more punches and won at least 6 rounds... It was a rounds scoring system so the knock downs only counted in a tie... One judge who couldn't count punches very well scored it a tie and gave Bonavena 3 extra points for the knockdowns - but Frazier won it fair and square despite being such a greenhorn... A few fights later he pounded on Chuvalo 5 X worse than Bonavena did.

Bonavena was a HELL of a lot bigger and stronger than Marciano... One of his arms would make 2 of Rocky's, but in their rematach Frazier knocked the Hell out Bonavena with a savage battering... I think Ringo went a little mental after that brutal beating... He seemed to lose it a little and had a lot of problems after that.

Also, you know well that a prime Frazier threw more and sharper punches than Rocky did, up to 100 a round or more... Coming out smokin' wasn't something Rocky did... He hit the deck in the 1st round with ancient Joe Walcott... Rocky was little, slow, and smaller than Dave Zyglewicz... He fought little challengers who had no resistance... Frazier put Dave Zyglewicz out in 96 seconds of round 1 with a thunderous left hook, and he was the closet thing to Rocky who Frazier fought -- but just too small and slow.

Based on your logic, with numbers, Marciano had twice as many fights as Joe Frazier therefore when he was 49-0 he could have beaten Joe when he was in his last few fights, if not any majority of time in Joe's career so you only own yourself.

Besides your argument that Bonavena was stronger... Based on what?... Virtually all the guys who fought Marciano, especially Walcott Charles and Louis said that Marciano was the strongest heavyweight of the last 50 years, that ONE of his punches was equal to a series of punches from Louis.

Archie Moore himself said Marciano was easily the hardest puncher he ever faced, and Archie was taller and heavier than Marciano was when they fought. Moore fought some pretty skilled and monstrous guys, and if none of them came close to Marciano's power, then how can you argue Bonavena was stronger? Based on just his weight?

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑17 Jan 2018, 23:51 Based on your logic, with numbers, Marciano had twice as many fights as Joe Frazier therefore when he was 49-0 he could have beaten Joe when he was in his last few fights, if not any majority of time in Joe's career so you only own yourself.

Besides your argument that Bonavena was stronger... Based on what?... Virtually all the guys who fought Marciano, especially Walcott Charles and Louis said that Marciano was the strongest heavyweight of the last 50 years, that ONE of his punches was equal to a series of punches from Louis.

Archie Moore himself said Marciano was easily the hardest puncher he ever faced, and Archie was taller and heavier than Marciano was when they fought. Moore fought some pretty skilled and monstrous guys, and if none of them came close to Marciano's power, then how can you argue Bonavena was stronger? Based on just his weight?

LOL -- DON'T tell me what my logic is... Even in his 49th fight against Moore, Marciano wasn't a finished boxer... He still got hit and knocked down by a old Light Heavyweight and had a hard time getting the old boy out... Frazier's first 10 or 11 fights he certainly didn't have finished skills... In his 18th fight against George Chuvalo, Joe was almost as good as he was going to get because he was easily outscoring Chuvalo with ease and made him quit in 4.

Patterson at 21 was more polished than Marciano at 32... Fighting Moore, he didn't get hit as much... He didn't get floored... He got Little Archie out much faster than Rocky and with tighter and sharper punches... Floyd learned quickly and Rocky didn't... I don't believe Charles and Louis ever made dumb comments about Marciano being the the strongest Heavyweight in 50 years... His last fight was in 1955 and that takes us back to 1905... They had no idea how strong a peak Jeffries, Johnson, and Dempsey were, much less McVey, McCarty and other men they had no basis on which to judge.

If "ONE" of Marciano's punches were equal to many from Louis -- why did a washed up Louis KO a younger Walcott in 11 rounds while a prime Marciano took 13 rounds to KO an ancient Walcott after hitting him hundreds of times??? When he faced Rocky, Walcott had been knocked out 4 times and beaten 16 times already.

In fact, Rocky hit a washed up Charles with hundreds of punches for 15 rounds without knocking him out, and Charles had previously been knocked out by Lloyd Marshall and Joe Walcott after hitting him with fewer punches.

Frazier was the first to stop Quarry, Ellis, Zyglewicz, Chuvalo, Mathis, and others... Marciano didn't fight any real good young challengers... They simply didn't exist in the 1950's until Patterson came along... The way Patterson stretched Ingemar Johansson (He was the only man who ever beat Ingo) in their rematch. That was an ice job.... You never saw Rocky hit a World Title opponent that hard.

Eveyone talks of the iconic Zyglewicz KO and nobody ever mentions Rockys KO over Walcott, never. It was eclpipsed by the Zyglewicz destruction. The photo of the Zyglewicz KO is legendary.









Isnt it?

Tomasino wrote: ↑18 Jan 2018, 08:18 Eveyone talks of the iconic Zyglewicz KO and nobody ever mentions Rockys KO over Walcott, never. It was eclpipsed by the Zyglewicz destruction. The photo of the Zyglewicz KO is legendary... Isnt it?

You love to take up a lot of white space and say nothing of value.

Joe Frazier's Ziggy finish was more picturesque by far.... It was an ice job in 96 seconds of the 1st round..... Over a man who'd never been knocked down in his life before.... He met up with Smokin' Joe and was blown away in the 1st.

The right from Rocky beat an exhausted and beaten down 38-year-old Walcott in the 13th round.... Walcott was a 2-pack a day smoker who frequently wore down in the late rounds.... He had 16 previous defeats with several KO losses.

And the right hand didn't finish the job... Walcott fell to his knee and Rocky hit him with a left hook while he was down - which is the punch that toppled him over... It was an illegal punch because you're not allowed to hit a man while he's down... So the final blow of Marciano vs Walcott was an illegal punch delivered to an opponent who was on his knee.

Kalan wrote: ↑18 Jan 2018, 15:00

Tomasino wrote: ↑18 Jan 2018, 08:18 Eveyone talks of the iconic Zyglewicz KO and nobody ever mentions Rockys KO over Walcott, never. It was eclpipsed by the Zyglewicz destruction. The photo of the Zyglewicz KO is legendary... Isnt it?

You love to take up a lot of white space and say nothing of value.

Joe Frazier's Ziggy finish was more picturesque by far.... It was an ice job in 96 seconds of the 1st round..... Over a man who'd never been knocked down in his life before.... He met up with Smokin' Joe and was blown away in the 1st.

The right from Rocky beat an exhausted and beaten down 38-year-old Walcott in the 13th round.... Walcott was a 2-pack a day smoker who frequently wore down in the late rounds.... He had 16 previous defeats with several KO losses.

And the right hand didn't finish the job... Walcott fell to his knee and Rocky hit him with a left hook while he was down - which is the punch that toppled him over... It was an illegal punch because you're not allowed to hit a man while he's down... So the final blow of Marciano vs Walcott was an illegal punch delivered to an opponent who was on his knee.

Zyglewicz would have done the same to you that Joe done to him.