BoxRec

. . . . .especially with heavyweights?


Didn't Ali get decked by Henry Cooper, Chuck Wepner and Joe Frazier?. . . . .the same with George Foreman by Ali, Ron Lyle and Jimmy Young?. . Marciano was knocked down in several fights. . .. . .Roy Jones was knocked out a few times.. So why the obsession with Wilder who boxing forum poster have ravaged with the label and now even Joshua who is being mentioned?. . . . Are the posters that limited in their history or have no other evidence to break down a fight than to simply call a boxer who has been dropped having a glass jaw?

I don't think it's always about the jaw. If you get hit clean, there is a chance you can go down. Nothing wrong with being dropped. Getting dropped means you more or less loss the round, nothing more.

This glass jaw thing is just a thing that posters won't get over.

I'd say there's an equal interest and attention given to guys that are like human anvils that are damn near impossible to stop. Extremes always stand out whichever side of the extreme they fall on.

Most boxers are somewhere in the middle.

I always wonder what posters think of Juan Manuel Marquez' chin.

He had 64 fights in a 21 year career.

Does anyone know exactly how many times he was knocked down in his HOF career?

Quite a few. Double digits easily. Pacquiao alone sent him to the canvas 5 times.

And yet JMM never failed to finish a fight on his feet. You never could keep him down. Knocked down with regularity but never ever knocked out.

So did Marquez have a glass chin? If you get knocked down frequently does that alone indicate that your jaw is made of the finest china?

Or do you have to stay down or at least eventually end up losing by KO to be tagged with the dreaded glass jaw moniker?

I would think you need to be knocked out more than a few times, and begin to be able to be knocked down with increasing ease to be labeled with the dreaded "glass jaw".

Marquez definitely didn't have a glass jaw. He was just human. The punches that dropped him would've dropped a lot of guys. Most importantly he always showed the heart to get up and keep fighting...often winning when he was dropped.

I think it's how quick or easily you're knocked down. But then it depends on who you're fighting and how clean you get him. Many said the shot that Canelo KO's Khan with would have knocked anyone in his weight. caught him clean as anything.

I think the glass jaw moniker comes a little quicker if you get knocked out by say the likes of a Paulie Malignaggi or something too

Most big name fighters don't get stopped by dudes like that, but it happens every now and again.

Who is "boxing forum poster"? Is this some sort of moderator edit?

I also wonder who he's talking about

asdfjkl wrote: ↑30 Jan 2018, 23:06 I also wonder who he's talking about

I think the OP is speaking in general terms about the number of fans who are always quick to label any fighter who gets shaken or knocked down as having a glass jaw.

In my opinion class jaw is someone who really has bad punch resistance. Like Price. Maybe Khan too ?

Using that term on guys like Wlad or Joshua is pretty much just insult. Both have taken shots that would have KO'd real class jaw...

I honestly believe that Amir Khan’s alleged inability to take a punch has been embellished rather preposterously.

I mean, for sure, he’s no Marvin Hagler, but his so-called “glass jaw” is a bit of a myth if you ask me!

When Khan got KO’d by Breidis Prescott, he was fairly inexperienced, was facing a renowned unbeaten puncher and he impulsively rose to his feet instead of taking a knee. He didn’t try to regroup, which prevented the possibility of him being able to change the outcome of that bout.

Danny Garcia was also a big puncher (at 140lbs) and Amir made the same mistake. Once again, Khan didn’t try to regroup, he instead went on the attack, and this gave his opponent a chance to “close the show” in a fight where the American was clearly losing… by a proverbial “country mile!”

Amir was doing extremely well against Canelo, who not only outweighed him enormously, but was also considered another big puncher… and got caught by a good clean shot whilst participating in a fight where the weight division wasn’t considered anywhere near his natural habitat.

The shots Khan took against Prescott, Garcia and Canelo, he didn’t see. However, he saw the punches being thrown by Maidana and managed to cope with those blows really well, whereas others didn't!

Am I missing something? Are any of the points I’ve articulated above untrue or unreasonable?

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑31 Jan 2018, 08:47 I honestly believe that Amir Khan’s alleged inability to take a punch has been embellished rather preposterously.

I mean, for sure, he’s no Marvin Hagler, but his so-called “glass jaw” is a bit of a myth if you ask me!

When Khan got KO’d by Breidis Prescott, he was fairly inexperienced, was facing a renowned unbeaten puncher and he impulsively rose to his feet instead of taking a knee. He didn’t try to regroup, which prevented the possibility of him being able to change the outcome of that bout.

Danny Garcia was also a big puncher (at 140lbs) and Amir made the same mistake. Once again, Khan didn’t try to regroup, he instead went on the attack, and this gave his opponent a chance to “close the show” in a fight where the American was clearly losing… by a proverbial “country mile!”

Amir was doing extremely well against Canelo, who not only outweighed him enormously, but was also considered another big puncher… and got caught by a good clean shot whilst participating in a fight where the weight division wasn’t considered anywhere near his natural habitat.

The shots Khan took against Prescott, Garcia and Canelo, he didn’t see. However, he saw the punches being thrown by Maidana and managed to cope with those blows really well, whereas others didn't!

Am I missing something? Are any of the points I’ve articulated above untrue?

You just literally illustrated exactly why Amir Khan is the poster boy for Glass Jaw. Not everyone that gets knocked out multiple times is a glass jaw. You actually have to be a better than good boxer to gain this label. A glass jaw boxer is a gifted boxer that always seems to be in fights until the moment he's not in the fight. It could happen at any time during the fight but you never know when or if this might be the fight he wins. That's so Amir Khan. No better example of a glass jaw that i know.

i think theres certainly enough evidence to make a case that khans glass chinned. yes, some fighters who stopped him were top fighters, but he was also in serious trouble vs lower level fighters, including feather fisted willie limond. also prescott has rarley shown serious power aside from stopping khan. in his next fight after beating khan he teed off on some small journyeman and could hardly dent him

khan was:

down against some french journeyman

seriously hurt by feather fisted willie limond. arguably shouldve been counted out.

seriously hurt by michael gomez

flattened in a minute by prescott, who never again stopped anyone good

dropped several times and stopped early by garcia, who never scored a hard stoppage over any other good fighter

down and then rocked several times by julio diaz, who was never a serious hitter from 140 up

rocked early by light hitting chris algeiri

seriously hurt by marcos maidana

knocked out cold by canelo. the only other fighter canelo knocked out like that was the very chinny james kirkland

thing with khan is that he has very fast movement and vs not so good opponents if hes hurt he can often speed his way out of it long enough to recover. his powers of recovery are also better than his ability to avoid being hurt in the first place.

id say hes at least easy to hurt if you land.

caldo2025 wrote: ↑31 Jan 2018, 09:01

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑31 Jan 2018, 08:47 I honestly believe that Amir Khan’s alleged inability to take a punch has been embellished rather preposterously.

I mean, for sure, he’s no Marvin Hagler, but his so-called “glass jaw” is a bit of a myth if you ask me!

When Khan got KO’d by Breidis Prescott, he was fairly inexperienced, was facing a renowned unbeaten puncher and he impulsively rose to his feet instead of taking a knee. He didn’t try to regroup, which prevented the possibility of him being able to change the outcome of that bout.

Danny Garcia was also a big puncher (at 140lbs) and Amir made the same mistake. Once again, Khan didn’t try to regroup, he instead went on the attack, and this gave his opponent a chance to “close the show” in a fight where the American was clearly losing… by a proverbial “country mile!”

Amir was doing extremely well against Canelo, who not only outweighed him enormously, but was also considered another big puncher… and got caught by a good clean shot whilst participating in a fight where the weight division wasn’t considered anywhere near his natural habitat.

The shots Khan took against Prescott, Garcia and Canelo, he didn’t see. However, he saw the punches being thrown by Maidana and managed to cope with those blows really well, whereas others didn't!

Am I missing something? Are any of the points I’ve articulated above untrue?

You just literally illustrated exactly why Amir Khan is the poster boy for Glass Jaw. Not everyone that gets knocked out multiple times is a glass jaw. You actually have to be a better than good boxer to gain this label. A glass jaw boxer is a gifted boxer that always seems to be in fights until the moment he's not in the fight. It could happen at any time during the fight but you never know when or if this might be the fight he wins. That's so Amir Khan. No better example of a glass jaw that i know.

When I talk about the phrase “glass jaw”, I’m referring to the universal definition that relates to an individual’s capacity to absorb punishment, to tolerate trauma to the jaw, their physical robustness whenever they take head shots etc.

I am not referring to a personal bespoke definition of the phrase that only myself fabricated in my mind, with the sole aim to win an argument.

Prior to meeting Virgil Hunter, Amir Khan was stylistically and strategically flawed. Against Lamont Peterson, he didn’t know how to fight on the inside, so he grabbed and mauled… grabbed and mauled… lather, rinse and repeat.

The Brit’s instincts when troubled by a big puncher, was to go on the offensive and trade blows with men who hit harder than himself, instead of trying to regroup and stick to his strengths.

Amir was also too greedy with his combinations. Instead of throwing two-three punch combos, he’d throw a flurry of five identical shots, which meant he stayed inside too long, became predictable and vulnerable to counters.

I am sure that there are journeymen that are capable of absorbing a hellacious amount of physical punishment that frequently get stopped, not because of any physical limitation on their part, but because they don’t know how to fight or defend themselves.

When Khan was stopped by Prescott, Garcia and Canelo, he allowed renowned punchers to load-up and connect with counter blows he did not see… and any fighter that has to take a shot in that circumstance is going to get hurt… and hurt badly!

I am not really interested about debating unique circumstances either, such as when novices are either wobbled or suffer flash-knockdowns several times very early in their careers, because most fighters would have had to endure one or two tough times whilst they’re still learning the trade.

Therefore, I feel that Amir Khan’s alleged “glass jaw” is simply a myth either perpetuated by his haters or ignorant people that like to ride common misconception bandwagons.

To make myself abundantly clear though, just because I am strongly against the notion that Amir cannot absorb punishment, doesn’t mean that you should automatically assume that I hold the polar opposite stance, because I don’t! Khan doesn’t have a granite jaw, but it’s nowhere near as bad as many perceive it to be.

theres plenty of evidence to make a case mate, it doesnt have to be hate or ignorance.

btw prescotts ko record was built on total cans and he even rocked khan with a jab. its not like some proven world class puncher was teeing off on khan with fully loaded up shots. prescott hit plenty of others without them crumpling.

and garcia i wouldnt call a renowned puncher either, even at 140. holt went the distance, old campbell went the distance, mattyhse went the distance, herrera went the distance, judah went the distance, old morales went the distance the first time.

Khan has a glass jaw.

Punch resistance and punch recovery are two different attributes, although they may well be linked. Some put punch resistance down to core/leg strength, whilst punch recovery is often put down to good fitness and composure.

A perfectly delivered punch (great leverage and timing, head-spinning impact on mouth / nose area, not seen by recipient etc can knockout anyone cold - ask Manny Pacquiao or Ricky Hatton. Factors like like fatigue and poor prep also play an obvious part.

Still some fighters like Jake LaMotta, George Chuvalo, Marvin Hagler, Vitali Klitchko or GGG seemed to have a fantastic ability to take a shot.

Others like Larry Holmes, Chris Eubank, Nigel Benn, Joe Calzaghe, Carl Froch, Anthony Joshua etc demonstrated great powers of recovery.

It goes without saying that almost all champions must possess at least average powers of punch resistance and recovery at their peak.

Amir Khan might have decent powers of recovery, bravely hanging on against Maidana, but his punch resistance is only average at best. Frank Bruno and Tommy Hearns also seemed to have problems with punch resistance at various stages in their career.

Sadly, the evidence suggests that both attributes can rapidly get worse late into a fighters career.

Anyone can be knocked out if hit right, especially at HW. Lennox Lewis is one of the best HWs ever and he was stopped early twice, I wouldn't say he had a glass jaw though.

SenorPipino wrote: ↑30 Jan 2018, 13:33 I always wonder what posters think of Juan Manuel Marquez' chin.

He had 64 fights in a 21 year career.

Does anyone know exactly how many times he was knocked down in his HOF career?

Quite a few. Double digits easily. Pacquiao alone sent him to the canvas 5 times.

And yet JMM never failed to finish a fight on his feet. You never could keep him down. Knocked down with regularity but never ever knocked out.

So did Marquez have a glass chin? If you get knocked down frequently does that alone indicate that your jaw is made of the finest china?

Or do you have to stay down or at least eventually end up losing by KO to be tagged with the dreaded glass jaw moniker?

To me that is not a glass chin. A glass chin is someone who when they get hit clean gets stopped.

Thomastearns wrote: ↑31 Jan 2018, 12:38 Punch resistance and punch recovery are two different attributes, although they may well be linked. Some put punch resistance down to core/leg strength, whilst punch recovery is often put down to good fitness and composure.

A perfectly delivered punch (great leverage and timing, head-spinning impact on mouth / nose area, not seen by recipient etc can knockout anyone cold - ask Manny Pacquiao or Ricky Hatton. Factors like like fatigue and poor prep also play an obvious part.

Still some fighters like Jake LaMotta, George Chuvalo, Marvin Hagler, Vitali Klitchko or GGG seemed to have a fantastic ability to take a shot.

Others like Larry Holmes, Chris Eubank, Nigel Benn, Joe Calzaghe, Carl Froch, Anthony Joshua etc demonstrated great powers of recovery.

It goes without saying that almost all champions must possess at least average powers of punch resistance and recovery at their peak.

Amir Khan might have decent powers of recovery, bravely hanging on against Maidana, but his punch resistance is only average at best. Frank Bruno and Tommy Hearns also seemed to have problems with punch resistance at various stages in their career.

Sadly, the evidence suggests that both attributes can rapidly get worse late into a fighters career.

Great post, totally agree. There are some fighters who seem impervious almost, I think in their case the reasons are physiological - the shape and size of the skull and jaw bones, the way their nervous system is arrayed, their neck and shoulders.

Holmes had about the best powers of recovery I can recall seeing. He apparently hit his head and woke himself up against Shavers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoGTufCNN7o

Frankly, every time I see a topic that contains the phrase “chin check” I normally give it a pass. ESB where I used to frequent years ago was full of those type of threads, some users even had chin check in their username; the obsession is ridiculous...

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑03 Feb 2018, 18:34

Thomastearns wrote: ↑31 Jan 2018, 12:38 Punch resistance and punch recovery are two different attributes, although they may well be linked. Some put punch resistance down to core/leg strength, whilst punch recovery is often put down to good fitness and composure.

A perfectly delivered punch (great leverage and timing, head-spinning impact on mouth / nose area, not seen by recipient etc can knockout anyone cold - ask Manny Pacquiao or Ricky Hatton. Factors like like fatigue and poor prep also play an obvious part.

Still some fighters like Jake LaMotta, George Chuvalo, Marvin Hagler, Vitali Klitchko or GGG seemed to have a fantastic ability to take a shot.

Others like Larry Holmes, Chris Eubank, Nigel Benn, Joe Calzaghe, Carl Froch, Anthony Joshua etc demonstrated great powers of recovery.

It goes without saying that almost all champions must possess at least average powers of punch resistance and recovery at their peak.

Amir Khan might have decent powers of recovery, bravely hanging on against Maidana, but his punch resistance is only average at best. Frank Bruno and Tommy Hearns also seemed to have problems with punch resistance at various stages in their career.

Sadly, the evidence suggests that both attributes can rapidly get worse late into a fighters career.

Great post, totally agree. There are some fighters who seem impervious almost, I think in their case the reasons are physiological - the shape and size of the skull and jaw bones, the way their nervous system is arrayed, their neck and shoulders.

Holmes had about the best powers of recovery I can recall seeing. He apparently hit his head and woke himself up against Shavers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoGTufCNN7o

If we’re talking powers of recovery, James, Carl Thompson’s were notable, that Cat certainly had nine lives...

chinarich wrote: ↑04 Feb 2018, 19:23

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑03 Feb 2018, 18:34

Thomastearns wrote: ↑31 Jan 2018, 12:38 Punch resistance and punch recovery are two different attributes, although they may well be linked. Some put punch resistance down to core/leg strength, whilst punch recovery is often put down to good fitness and composure.

A perfectly delivered punch (great leverage and timing, head-spinning impact on mouth / nose area, not seen by recipient etc can knockout anyone cold - ask Manny Pacquiao or Ricky Hatton. Factors like like fatigue and poor prep also play an obvious part.

Still some fighters like Jake LaMotta, George Chuvalo, Marvin Hagler, Vitali Klitchko or GGG seemed to have a fantastic ability to take a shot.

Others like Larry Holmes, Chris Eubank, Nigel Benn, Joe Calzaghe, Carl Froch, Anthony Joshua etc demonstrated great powers of recovery.

It goes without saying that almost all champions must possess at least average powers of punch resistance and recovery at their peak.

Amir Khan might have decent powers of recovery, bravely hanging on against Maidana, but his punch resistance is only average at best. Frank Bruno and Tommy Hearns also seemed to have problems with punch resistance at various stages in their career.

Sadly, the evidence suggests that both attributes can rapidly get worse late into a fighters career.

Great post, totally agree. There are some fighters who seem impervious almost, I think in their case the reasons are physiological - the shape and size of the skull and jaw bones, the way their nervous system is arrayed, their neck and shoulders.

Holmes had about the best powers of recovery I can recall seeing. He apparently hit his head and woke himself up against Shavers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoGTufCNN7o

If we’re talking powers of recovery, James, Carl Thompson’s were notable, that Cat certainly had nine lives...

Yeah, I was fortunate enough to be there for two examples, against Haye and Rothstein.