BoxRec

Because of the IBF rules.

Regular titleholders also can't unify if there is already a 'Super' champion (Lebedev)..

Lebedev has ruined the tournament, as the winner will not be the Undisputed cruiserweight champion.

Similar case to Peterson vacating his Regular title to challenge Spence for the IBF..

I knew this would happen.. Just a matter of time. WBA could have just demoted Lebedev to Regular champion seen as he lost the IBF title and promoted the winner of Gassiev vs. Dorticos to Super champion..

Unless WBA have something against Gassiev.

lebedev hasnt ruined the tournament. everyone knows the winner will be the man at cruiser. gassiev already beat lebedev so leb has no argument for somehow being the top cruiser, whereas for the smw super six at least bute was unbeaten and it was less clear at the time that the tournament winner was better than him

. maybe the winner can fight lebedev as there next bout after the finals.

jamamb wrote: ↑31 Jan 2018, 10:21 everyone knows the winner will be the man at cruiser. gassiev already beat lebedev so leb has no argument for somehow being the top cruiser. maybe the winner can fight lebedev as there next bout after the finals.

True. And Lebedev is a paper champ.

jamamb wrote: ↑31 Jan 2018, 10:21 maybe the winner can fight lebedev as there next bout after the finals.

Too much privilege for Lebedev to take such opportunity. Anyway Levedel will not be able to use it.

jamamb wrote: ↑31 Jan 2018, 10:21 . maybe the winner can fight lebedev as there next bout after the finals.

This is why I believe he never entered. So he could fight the winner, for all the belts and get a decent payday, probably his last big payday.

i can see that. if he entered he couldve easily lost in the first round. this way he couldve preserved himself a big fight without having to first fight anyone tough. and he still offers the tournament winner a good name for their resume and of course the final trinket.

jamamb wrote: ↑31 Jan 2018, 10:21 lebedev hasnt ruined the tournament. everyone knows the winner will be the man at cruiser. gassiev already beat lebedev so leb has no argument for somehow being the top cruiser, whereas for the smw super six at least bute was unbeaten and it was less clear at the time that the tournament winner was better than him

. maybe the winner can fight lebedev as there next bout after the finals.

Whoever wins the tournament, Lebedev is irrelevant at this point. Gassiev already defeated him, and a winner will be either Gassiev or somebody who defeated him.

lebedev still has a name (which is more relevant for usyk or dorticos since they havent beaten him already) and for at least some people the 'undisuputed' belt holder thing is important and adds value to a fighters accomplishment. and if the winner stays at cruiser there arent really many bigger fights. i guess bellew if he comes back, or maybe facing a semi-final loser from the other side of the bracket.

i figure at this point lebedev wouldnt be much of a threat to the tournament winner either. they could see it as good risk vs reward.

The general public doesn't care about belts and titles anymore.

Fans nowadays support fighters and fights, not meaningless championships.

Lebedev and his title is irrelevant to most. As is Dortico's and Gassiev's.

Fans will pay attention to the tourney winner, whether he has a belt or not.

I had Gassiev beating Lebedev, but it was controversial. To just immediately rule out Lebedev is rewriting history. Lots had Lebedev beating Gassiev, and if you are in that camp, it does leave room for criticism of the winner of the tournament. Still, I think the winner is the man at CW. Hell, I think last fight between Usyk vs. Briedis showed the clear #1 and #2 in the division. Dorticos and Gassiev aren't on that level.

SenorPipino wrote: ↑31 Jan 2018, 11:28 The general public doesn't care about belts and titles anymore.

Fans nowadays support fighters and fights, not meaningless championships.

Lebedev and his title is irrelevant to most. As is Dortico's and Gassiev's.

Fans will pay attention to the tourney winner, whether he has a belt or not.

Definitely. Hell the General Public couldn't pay attention to belts anymore really. There's too damn many to keep track of. This Tournament clearly has the best Cruiserweights going at the moment involved in it. The winner is the Undisputed Champion as far as I, and I'm sure every other knowledgeable fan is concerned. Lebedev's paper title just makes him a more desirable contender for somebody to go after when this is over that's all...but make no mistake. The winner of this Tournament is THE MAN at Cruiserweight.

belts can still definitely work as marketing tools, and the general public isnt exactly super knowledgable when it comes to differentating wba regular titles from wba super titles. but to knoweldgable fans they dont make a boxer more credible or a fight much more interesting.

Just in time for Shumenov. Now he doesn't even need to face Lebedev. The WBA is the big winner here. They're about to get twice the payoff.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑31 Jan 2018, 14:02

SenorPipino wrote: ↑31 Jan 2018, 11:28 The general public doesn't care about belts and titles anymore.

Fans nowadays support fighters and fights, not meaningless championships.

Lebedev and his title is irrelevant to most. As is Dortico's and Gassiev's.

Fans will pay attention to the tourney winner, whether he has a belt or not.

Definitely. Hell the General Public couldn't pay attention to belts anymore really. There's too damn many to keep track of. This Tournament clearly has the best Cruiserweights going at the moment involved in it. The winner is the Undisputed Champion as far as I, and I'm sure every other knowledgeable fan is concerned. Lebedev's paper title just makes him a more desirable contender for somebody to go after when this is over that's all...but make no mistake. The winner of this Tournament is THE MAN at Cruiserweight.

Knowledgeable fans know that Gassiev/Lebedev was close and could've gone either way. As I said, it frustrates the hell out me that people are rewriting history to fit their own perspective. Lebedev's belt does matter. Gassiev did not beat him clear.

Imagine if Gassiev wins the tournament. The number 1 criticism people would give him, if he never rematches Lebedev, is that Lebedev had beat him. Gassiev, especially, would need to fight Lebedev to shrug off any criticism. I had Gassiev winning, but it was an extremely close fight.

Mexi-Box wrote: ↑31 Jan 2018, 15:12 Knowledgeable fans know that Gassiev/Lebedev was close and could've gone either way. As I said, it frustrates the hell out me that people are rewriting history to fit their own perspective. Lebedev's belt does matter. Gassiev did not beat him clear.

Imagine if Gassiev wins the tournament. The number 1 criticism people would give him, if he never rematches Lebedev, is that Lebedev had beat him. Gassiev, especially, would need to fight Lebedev to shrug off any criticism. I had Gassiev winning, but it was an extremely close fight.

I had Lebedev winning

Nobody is saying that Gassiev dominated Lebedev, but if you had Gassiev winning then how does Lebedev deserve a belt? He lost the fight right? So what's he Champion of? Losing close?

gilgamesh wrote: ↑31 Jan 2018, 15:17 Nobody is saying that Gassiev dominated Lebedev, but if you had Gassiev winning then how does Lebedev deserve a belt? He lost the fight right? So what's he Champion of? Losing close?

As I said, I've seen several knowledgeable posters have Lebedev winning that fight. It was razor close. I also had GGG beating Canelo, but low and behold, some had Canelo winning. That's why they're rematching in May. GGG is not done with Canelo just like Gassiev is not done with Lebedev.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑31 Jan 2018, 15:16

Mexi-Box wrote: ↑31 Jan 2018, 15:12 Knowledgeable fans know that Gassiev/Lebedev was close and could've gone either way. As I said, it frustrates the hell out me that people are rewriting history to fit their own perspective. Lebedev's belt does matter. Gassiev did not beat him clear.

Imagine if Gassiev wins the tournament. The number 1 criticism people would give him, if he never rematches Lebedev, is that Lebedev had beat him. Gassiev, especially, would need to fight Lebedev to shrug off any criticism. I had Gassiev winning, but it was an extremely close fight.

I had Lebedev winning

It's not wrong. It was a razor-close fight. Shutting out Lebedev like I'm reading here is definitely wrong. The guy arguably has a win over the possible finalist of the tournament. How the hell can anyone call his title "paper". Yes, he should've lost the belt officially, but I'm glad he retained so the winner can't just ignore him.

Mexi-Box wrote: ↑31 Jan 2018, 15:24

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑31 Jan 2018, 15:16

Mexi-Box wrote: ↑31 Jan 2018, 15:12 Knowledgeable fans know that Gassiev/Lebedev was close and could've gone either way. As I said, it frustrates the hell out me that people are rewriting history to fit their own perspective. Lebedev's belt does matter. Gassiev did not beat him clear.

Imagine if Gassiev wins the tournament. The number 1 criticism people would give him, if he never rematches Lebedev, is that Lebedev had beat him. Gassiev, especially, would need to fight Lebedev to shrug off any criticism. I had Gassiev winning, but it was an extremely close fight.

I had Lebedev winning

It's not wrong. It was a razor-close fight. Shutting out Lebedev like I'm reading here is definitely wrong. The guy arguably has a win over the possible finalist of the tournament. How the hell can anyone call his title "paper". Yes, he should've lost the belt officially, but I'm glad he retained so the winner can't just ignore him.

This is how you can call his title paper. Each division has ONE Champion. Everyone else is a contender with a belt. The winner of this Tournament is THE Champion. Lebedev's not in the Tourmament.

The WBA "regular" title means fûck all.

This meaningless belt being vacated is about as significant as snow fall in Greenland.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑31 Jan 2018, 15:46 The WBA "regular" title means fûck all.

This meaningless belt being vacated is about as significant as snow fall in Greenland.

Guaranteed we'll see the Regular belt again.. despite WBA saying they want to reduce the belts.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑31 Jan 2018, 15:28

Mexi-Box wrote: ↑31 Jan 2018, 15:24

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑31 Jan 2018, 15:16

I had Lebedev winning

It's not wrong. It was a razor-close fight. Shutting out Lebedev like I'm reading here is definitely wrong. The guy arguably has a win over the possible finalist of the tournament. How the hell can anyone call his title "paper". Yes, he should've lost the belt officially, but I'm glad he retained so the winner can't just ignore him.

This is how you can call his title paper. Each division has ONE Champion. Everyone else is a contender with a belt. The winner of this Tournament is THE Champion. Lebedev's not in the Tourmament.

Your whole argument is turned on its head if Gassiev wins.

in that case the winner will have already beaten leb fair and square

Mexi-Box wrote: ↑31 Jan 2018, 15:24

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑31 Jan 2018, 15:16

Mexi-Box wrote: ↑31 Jan 2018, 15:12 Knowledgeable fans know that Gassiev/Lebedev was close and could've gone either way. As I said, it frustrates the hell out me that people are rewriting history to fit their own perspective. Lebedev's belt does matter. Gassiev did not beat him clear.

Imagine if Gassiev wins the tournament. The number 1 criticism people would give him, if he never rematches Lebedev, is that Lebedev had beat him. Gassiev, especially, would need to fight Lebedev to shrug off any criticism. I had Gassiev winning, but it was an extremely close fight.

I had Lebedev winning

It's not wrong. It was a razor-close fight. Shutting out Lebedev like I'm reading here is definitely wrong. The guy arguably has a win over the possible finalist of the tournament. How the hell can anyone call his title "paper". Yes, he should've lost the belt officially, but I'm glad he retained so the winner can't just ignore him.

As old as Lebedev is And the fights he's had And damage he's took, whether he won that fight or not I'd say he gave some indication he'd have had too much for Gassiev when he was much younger and fresher.

Mexi-Box wrote: ↑31 Jan 2018, 15:24Yes, he should've lost the belt officially, but I'm glad he retained so the winner can't just ignore him.

Not only the tournament winner can ignore Lebedev, but he should do so. A champion who lost to somebody of his own weight class should not have a belt, period. Lebedev's belt is not a paper one, it is an illegal one.

I see the following best opponents for a potential winner:
- if Gassiev or Dorticos win, then fight Briedis
- if Usyk wins and Gassiev vs Dorticos was close, then fight a loser
- Vlasov
- Move to HW (both Usyk and Gassiev previously talked about plans to move up)

P.S. I am wondering if Dorticos dropping the belt has anything to do with Shumenov's plans to purchase it from WBA (wouldn't be the first time).

prime lebedev may well have wouldve beaten that gassiev, but remember that was a f@cking massive step up for gassiev and hes probably going to learn from that type of thing.

and for a cruiser hes still a baby too. hes the youngest semifinalist by 6 years.