BoxRec

When he left France and came to Montreal (and later New York) in his earliest promos he mentions that other than rugby he dabbled in boxing before going into wrestling.

While many will say "he was just talking himself up", the rugby accounts have held up to scrutiny. I do know the gym he trained in (Paris) was a multi-faceted place where martial artists and boxers trained as well when he "learned the ropes" from Edouard Carpentier.

So it has me wondering... Could he have spared? Could he have boxed exhibitions? Could he have boxed amateur or even professional to get into shape and get noticed as a wrestler?

Of course Andre did have that 1976 matchup with Wepner at Shea Stadium.

To this day, there's wrestling people who swear that it was basically unscripted, but in the end it did degenerate into typical pro wrestling lunacy.

But you have to take those claims with a grain of salt. A BIG grain.

Wepner used those same series of blatant rabbit punches that he hit Ali with a year earlier.

But Andre didn't even wear gloves. I guess he knew he would need a good grip when he tossed Wepner out of the ring in the 3rd round.

Obviously a work. It was the prelim to the Ali-Inoki carnival in Tokyo.

Chuck Wepner told me it was 100% fake.

I'm going to assume if he ever did it it's when he was still in France in the 60s.

Wepner also took on Inoki in Japan, not too long after the Japanese wrestler "fought" Ali.

It was a mixed match, and once again, many swear the bout was on the level.

This time Inoki won with a wrestling move, but Wepner supposedly had some success and knocked Inoki down.

But I strongly suspect that it was a work. Inoki wasn't going to lose in Japan. Especially after he lost some face by doing nothing against Ali a year earlier.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑05 Feb 2018, 20:29 Chuck Wepner told me it was 100% fake.

I'm going to assume if he ever did it it's when he was still in France in the 60s.

It would be interesting if Chuck Wepner was interviewed for the upcoming HBO documentery,
and explain exactly how it was " 100 % fake".
Did he go through the moves with Andre in a secret warehouse somewhere ?
How did Andre train for it ?
were boxing sparring partners brought in for him and who were they ?

As far as your second comment.
Are you talking about when Andre began drinking magnamous amounts of Beer that filled him out ?
I had read where he started doing that on his first visits to England ( as Jean Ferre in 1969)
They drink wine in France,which is supposed to be good for you in moderation.

Referring to IF he ever boxed, it had to be when he was still in France as Jean Ferre.

Chuck in the interview I did with him said that it was all predetermined, so I imagine there was no need for Andre to prepare for Chuck cus it wasn't a real fight. For a time Wepner attempted becoming a wrestler himself under a hood (mask) as "The Assassin" but it never came to be.

Well reportedly it was Verne Gagne who wanted Andre the Giant to come to America in 1970 to become a boxer.
Did Verne Gagne have any ties to Boxering trainers or Boxing gyms then ?
(in October 1953 Verne Gagne openly challeged Rocky Marciano to a Boxer vrs Wrestler Match).

Caractacus wrote: ↑06 Feb 2018, 19:43 Well reportedly it was Verne Gagne who wanted Andre the Giant to come to America in 1970 to become a boxer.
Did Verne Gagne have any ties to Boxering trainers or Boxing gyms then ?
(in October 1953 Verne Gagne openly challeged Rocky Marciano to a Boxer vrs Wrestler Match).

I was wondering why Gagne would want to steerAndre to boxing.

How would that benefit Gagne, who never appeared to have any connection to boxing?

Caractacus wrote: ↑06 Feb 2018, 15:43

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑05 Feb 2018, 20:29 Chuck Wepner told me it was 100% fake.

I'm going to assume if he ever did it it's when he was still in France in the 60s.

It would be interesting if Chuck Wepner was interviewed for the upcoming HBO documentery,
and explain exactly how it was " 100 % fake".
Did he go through the moves with Andre in a secret warehouse somewhere ?
How did Andre train for it ?
were boxing sparring partners brought in for him and who were they ?

As far as your second comment.
Are you talking about when Andre began drinking magnamous amounts of Beer that filled him out ?
I had read where he started doing that on his first visits to England ( as Jean Ferre in 1969)
They drink wine in France,which is supposed to be good for you in moderation.

In the end of their match, Andre picks Wepner up and tosses him clear out of the ring.

I can't imagine that he would do something like that (potentially very dangerous) without Wepner being apprised beforehand so that he could properly break the fall.

Caractacus wrote: ↑06 Feb 2018, 19:43 Well reportedly it was Verne Gagne who wanted Andre the Giant to come to America in 1970 to become a boxer.
Did Verne Gagne have any ties to Boxering trainers or Boxing gyms then ?
(in October 1953 Verne Gagne openly challeged Rocky Marciano to a Boxer vrs Wrestler Match).

Verne was very connected to many organizations (i.e the NFL/AFL) and because the N.W.A. for decades was under the supervision of the same athletic commissioners that reviewed boxing... Verne could have easily set up the big $$$$ for Andre to have gotten the proper training camp, and proper matches... People forget how much money and power Gagne had, because he constantly was stealing "legitimate athletes" from "real sports" to make for bigger attractions in his AWA company... Gagne, for example, had enough money to bankroll three years of Ken Patera's training camps for the Munich Games (1972) because Ken promised no matter what happened he'd wrestle for Verne after the fact.... ALSO, Verne's top referee was none other than SCOTT LEDOUX and he in turn had the knowledge of the game and enough insider information to get a 7'2" 325 pound giant into being a legitimate threat to the Heavyweight division... LeDoux would have most likely been Andre's sparring partner and coach, and Verne would have rolled the publicity and training camps and in-between time have the Giant wrestle... But, clearly, Vince McMahon Senior paid out far more money, at less hard work and effort for the big guy, so it never happened.

maybe Andre just boxed a bit at the mixed gym you mentioned but they couldn't find him any sparring partners.
There are some interesting parrallels with him to Primo Carnera however.
Carnera went to France from Italy after the War (1918)when he was in his early teens to stay with an aunt and her husband in LeMans France.
He was worked from Dusk to Dawn by her husband in a building trade for a pittance.
when he was about 18 he joined a traveling circus Sport Ring, where he wrestled,lifted weights and boxed as
"Juan,the Unbeatable Spaniard
( taking on 10 challengers a day).when the show came to Arcachon France,in March 1928 he was spotted by Paul Journee
( an ex-heavyweight champion of France who owned a gym there.He trained him for three months
and then sent him to Paris to see Leon See was was a well known Boxing manager.
whose gym was located West of Paris at Saint-Germain-en-Laye.
Carnera was trained by Maurice Eudeline and had his first pro fight in Paris in the Summer of 1928.
Carnera was 21 years old and 264 lbs.

I wonder if they were trying to get him a trainer like Freddie Fierro
who was Jim J. Beattie's trainer in the 1960's ,who was from St. Paul Minnesota.

I think considering many boxer-turn-wrestlers knew Verne Gagne, that it'd of been more of a "family affair". The less people involved, the better for Verne because he'd of had more control over the situation. Arnold Skaaland was a good friend of both Andre's and Verne's and he was a pro boxer before becoming a wrestler. So was Dan Hodge, who was in tight with Verne. There was enough men in the business who could have helped train, advise, book, and supervise Andre had he went into boxing.

I'd assume if there's any truth to it at all, the Rousimoff's would have clippings from newspapers of their son/brother doing every little thing while he was in Paris and later Montreal.

Molean, France was where he came from and it's still a very small farm community where old pictures and newspaper clippings of him still hang in the local pub. Who knows, maybe the evidence for him dabbling in boxing is there.

SenorPipino wrote: ↑06 Feb 2018, 01:39 Wepner also took on Inoki in Japan, not too long after the Japanese wrestler "fought" Ali.

It was a mixed match, and once again, many swear the bout was on the level.

This time Inoki won with a wrestling move, but Wepner supposedly had some success and knocked Inoki down.

But I strongly suspect that it was a work. Inoki wasn't going to lose in Japan. Especially after he lost some face by doing nothing against Ali a year earlier.

- There's dumb and then there's dumber, but damn, man, do you always have to put the stoop in stoopid?

All he did was take Ali down 3 or 4 times so Gene Lebell could make a show out of pulling him off Ali. Since Inoki was limited in only using 10% of his martial arts arsenal, he instead kicked the Pipino out of Ali to put him in critical condition in the hospital until Docs could repair the damage done to Ali.

I'm telling ya, it's outright scary to think you might drive a car in public and vote with such limited mental faculties available for your use.

I don't think Andre the Giant would have really had the mental appetutue to go into professional boxing,
because it is almost a solitary sport.
He would have preferred gregarious atmposphere of Professional wrestling particularly
in his late teens/early 20's.

in this interview from 1976,Andre the Giant says he played
4 years of Soccer
2 years of Rugby
1 year in Boxing
13 years of Wrestling
and something else I could'nt really hear.

SenorPipino wrote: ↑06 Feb 2018, 01:39 Wepner also took on Inoki in Japan, not too long after the Japanese wrestler "fought" Ali.

It was a mixed match, and once again, many swear the bout was on the level.

This time Inoki won with a wrestling move, but Wepner supposedly had some success and knocked Inoki down.

But I strongly suspect that it was a work. Inoki wasn't going to lose in Japan. Especially after he lost some face by doing nothing against Ali a year earlier.

I saw the match. For all intents and purposes it was legit UNTIL the finish. Inoki does a cartwheel kick and then submits Wepner with a Boston Crab.

Very disappointing.

Caractacus wrote: ↑09 Feb 2018, 18:30 in this interview from 1976,Andre the Giant says he played
4 years of Soccer
2 years of Rugby
1 year in Boxing
13 years of Wrestling
and something else I could'nt really hear.

He didn't say anything after the "13 years of Wrestling" statement. I do know that both the soccer and rugby accounts are true, which was part of the reason why the Washington Redskins offered him to play on their team because it wouldn't have been much of a transition from rugby to American football. Because those things are true, it makes me think that the "one year of boxing" is true... It could very well be that for a year he did train to become a professional boxer but in the end decided not to.

I found out something VERY interesting...

When longtime Minneapolis Boxing and Wrestling Club promoter Anton Stetcher passed away, control of his territory in the Minnesota area went to his son Dennis and Wally Karbo, who helped promote the territory. In 1959, Gagne purchased Dennis' shares in the company, which became the parent company for what would eventually become known as the American Wrestling Association.

But what does THAT have to do with boxing, let alone Andre the Giant? What it means is Gagne had direct access to Wally Karbo who handled the boxing end of things. Wally Karbo had stake in such fighters as.... *Drum Roll*.... Duane Bobick!

In February 1970, Gagne went to Japan and met Andre the Giant. He suggested to Andre that he should turn to boxing. Fast forward to 1972.... Guess who signs a contract with Verne Gagne to become apart of the AWA? DUANE BOBICK! And guess WHEN the French giant came to Minnesota to work in Gagne's territory? Also 1972!

*Takes a bow*

Verne ALSO managed boxer Ron Marsh, and a couple of others. So, certainly the capability of making Andre a professional was there, and the circumstancial evidence is growing.

http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/22249

^Ron Marsh's record and his first opponent was professional wrestler Frank Hester.

http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/22250

^Another of Verne's boxers Ed "Baker Boy" Hurley, who retired in 1968

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑05 Feb 2018, 20:29 Chuck Wepner told me it was 100% fake.

It wasn't.. It was a 100% goofiness... Wepner was tossed out of the ring, didn't get back in time and got beat -- after 3 rounds of doing little or nothing... Andre could have sat on Wepner and ended it quickly.. A little ground and pound.

SenorPipino wrote: ↑06 Feb 2018, 01:39 But I strongly suspect that it was a work. Inoki wasn't going to lose in Japan. Especially after he lost some face by doing nothing against Ali a year earlier.

Ali did nothing for the 15 rounds except stand there take punishment...

Inoki landed over 130 blows... Ali landed 3 feather light punches... A few days before the fight, Ali demanded the contract be rewritten to allow only kicks to the back of his legs when Inoki was in a prone (not standing) position... No punches, wrestling holds or throws were allowed by Inoki... The officials for the bout were brought in by Ali, including referee Gene LaBell, a former Wrestler... LaBell was a friend of Ali and Dundee... Essentially Ali was going to take his ball and go home if Inoki, who had trained for months didn't agree to rewrite the contract, giving in to everything Ali's team demanded..

Inoki still believed he would win by scoring more than Ali... He would have given up millions of dollars if he didn't agree to everything Ali demanded... There was no in Hell way the match would go forward without his concessions..

As the "fight" went on, Inoki hurt Ali very badly with kicks to his legs. Ali had to be hospitalized with broken blood vessels... Inoki never let Ali hit him with any real punch... Inoki was robbed by the officials who called it a draw...

It was a farce... a fraud... a joke.. a robbery... Despite the handicaps Inoki won very easily.

Ali, in all honesty, thought that the Inoki deal was going to be a "work", but when he went to Inoki's gym and asked, "So when do we rehearse?", and Inoki said that this wasn't predetermined..... Ali's team demanded all these conditions and stipulations that were absolutely ridiculous.

If you ever watch the press conference for the match, Inoki is obviously annoyed and upset at these convoluted rules that diluted his abilities virtually down to nothing, and Ali's team keeps hammering home that Inoki needs to sign this document or else Ali was going home.

Inoki, not wanting to lose face (since he was the one who called Ali out) signed the contract and throughout the fight Ali's corner is screaming, "Don't you kick standing up!" and other stuff written in the contract, any time Inoki started acting aggressively.

Despite having three points deducted from him (low blows) it was obvious that Inoki won the damn thing by a wide margin. Ali only landed 1-2 punches (of 6 that he threw) in the entire 15 rounds. Inoki landed kicks at will.

1976, Tokyo Japan, The War of the Worlds, Muhammad Ali vs Antonio Inoki for the "Mixed-Martial Arts" Championship of the World; referee Gene LeBell, 15 three minute rounds.



Documentary trailer on the match

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑24 Apr 2018, 03:46

noki was ahead by 27 points on my card... with 13 2-point rounds in which Ali didn't land the slightest blow.. Ali's left leg was all battered and he had to be hospitalized... Ali landed 3 feather light jabs... one idiot commentator called 2 of the jabs "smashes to the mouth" when they landed nowhere near the mouth. They grazed the hair with no impact whatever. At 1:01 of the video the camera pan Inoki's unmarked face. His face was as smooth, shaved, and clean as a round girl's ass, without a trace of a mark on him... Inoki was thoroughly disgusted by the contest and the revamping of the rules just before the "fight."

The commentators said Inoki would have won if he hadn't committed fouls out of frustration -- a knee to the groin and an elbow to the head as he was sitting on Ali after the referee demanded Inoki get up off of Ali.. That's bull.. I believe it still would be a draw because it was predetermined that it would be a draw if Ali took a whipping....which he did.

After he was fouled Ali tried for a minute or 2 to quit and leave the ring... but LeBell took time to persuade Ali to continue... If I'm the referee and a guy says he wants to quit and starts to leave the ring -- I halt to the fight and award it to Inoki.