BoxRec

Who would win? Vitali was tall, rangy, awkward, and had an iron chin and a high workrate.

A lot of empty commentary to come.

i feel like this thread mustve been done at least 5x before. ive at least already seen way too many lewis vs klit 'real winner' debates for my taste.

tyson would win btw. vitalis totally overrated

siablo14 wrote: ↑10 Feb 2018, 16:22 A lot of empty commentary to come.

No denying they were both decent, but also two of the most over rated and overfanboyed boxers ever. I'll give it to Tyson because he actually showed he could accomplish something, though Vitali maybe has a stylistic advantage.

lets see how long it takes to become a lewis vs vitali bitch fest

by the way did you know that vitali is one of the greatest punchers of all time because of his amazing ko rate

Vitali would give Tyson problems because Tyson always had problem with tall, skilled fighters. Even lesser ones than Vitali. I do believe that Vitali would be able to hang with Tyson in the early going, but I think Mike would be too aggressive ultimately and would wear Vitali down.

I don't expect he'd KO Vitali, but he might bust him up and stop him on cuts like Lewis did. But I'd be leaning toward Tyson to win a UD in a hard fought contest with Vitali.

jamamb wrote: ↑10 Feb 2018, 16:22 i feel like this thread mustve been done at least 5x before. ive at least already seen way too many lewis vs klit 'real winner' debates for my taste.

tyson would win btw. vitalis totally overrated

We're lucky Kalan isn't here to bloviate ad naseum on that comment.

well tbh i thought vitali looked pretty dang bad vs chisora. he won the first 5 rounds with arm punches but then chisora got in a roll and i thought probably won 4 or even 5 of the last 7. vitali looked really ineffective for much of that fight and his shots got walked through

now mind you he got injured, but still it doesnt really stand out as a performance to single out as one of his best ones that showed hed do good vs tysoj

Vitali. All day long. Nightmare for tyson in almost every respect. Huge, strong, very awkward, absolutely cast iron chin, great engine and most importantly absolutely no fear.

I actually think tyson would have been extremely intimidated by vitali.

Vitali would have ridden the early storm and broken him down to stop him.

Mike Tyson was the best 21 year old heavyweight that we have ever seen, or probably will ever see.

Under the watchful eye of Cus D'Amato and the tutelage of Kevin Rooney a wild kid became the most focused and accurate demolition machine seen inside a boxing ring. What his peak might have been we will never know, fate had other plans. Once D'Amato was gone the vultures began to move in. The rest is history.

Vitali Klitchko might be the best heavyweight since Tyson, (I dont think Joshua or Wilder have yet reached Wladimir's peak). A clash between the two would have been awesome.

Vitali didn't have Mike's boxing education, and had to get Steward on board to help adjust to the demands of world class boxing. As a result Vitali became a more cautious, but a more difficult fighter to beat.

Tyson's pedigree is the main difference between the two. He was just a more complete fighter as a result. That is why I think Tyson would win by wearing down Klitchko by his speed/skill advantage. I believe that Tyson was a far superior boxer to the Lewis who fought Klitschko. I doubt whether Klitchko improved enough under Steward to handle the 21 year old Tyson.

In no way does this denigrate Vitali. Cus D'Amato was always looking for a potentially great talent to mould, and there were doubts whether Tyson would ever be big enough to realize all those ambitions, but he did. Vitali just lacked the boxing education that Tyson had.

Mike Tyson might have been the most manufactured fighter boxing has ever seen (the other obvious example is MayweatherJr), but the talent came from within.

Vitalis arguably a nightmare for tyson. Huge, awkward, decent hand speed and made of stone... Not to mention comfortable across 12.

The big thing for me is if Mike can hurt him, early and often enough without getting tied up by an octopus defence.

Thomastearns wrote: ↑11 Feb 2018, 09:19 Mike Tyson was the best 21 year old heavyweight that we have ever seen, or probably will ever see.

Under the watchful eye of Cus D'Amato and the tutelage of Kevin Rooney a wild kid became the most focused and accurate demolition machine seen inside a boxing ring. What his peak might have been we will never know, fate had other plans. Once D'Amato was gone the vultures began to move in. The rest is history.

Vitali Klitchko might be the best heavyweight since Tyson, (I dont think Joshua or Wilder have yet reached Wladimir's peak). A clash between the two would have been awesome.

Vitali didn't have Mike's boxing education, and had to get Steward on board to help adjust to the demands of world class boxing. As a result Vitali became a more cautious, but a more difficult fighter to beat.

Tyson's pedigree is the main difference between the two. He was just a more complete fighter as a result. That is why I think Tyson would win by wearing down Klitchko by his speed/skill advantage. I believe that Tyson was a far superior boxer to the Lewis who fought Klitschko. I doubt whether Klitchko improved enough under Steward to handle the 21 year old Tyson.

In no way does this denigrate Vitali. Cus D'Amato was always looking for a potentially great talent to mould, and there were doubts whether Tyson would ever be big enough to realize all those ambitions, but he did. Vitali just lacked the boxing education that Tyson had.

Mike Tyson might have been the most manufactured fighter boxing has ever seen (the other obvious example is MayweatherJr), but the talent came from within.

Tyson was great during his brief prime, but Vitali would be the best big man he faced after Lewis. Vitalis ice cool demeanour and cast iron chin would get him through the rough spots.

RandomUsername wrote: ↑10 Feb 2018, 20:33 I think that this one is really hard to pick. The two questions to answer are A. Was Tyson really so good? and B. Was Vitaly really as shitty as some people claimed that he was?

And then there is C. When were their primes?

I place Vitalies prime at the Chisora fight, a great performance. As for Tyson I think that it's 1989 vs Frank Bruno I.

The Chisora fight holds some indicators, A. Vitaly can take a punch. B. Punches can be easily landed on Vitaly. I think that it is safe to conclude that if we gave Tyson Chisoras frame that he would have had no problem defeating Vitaly by Ko but Chisora is 10cm taller than Tyson and outweighed Tyson by 40 pounds or so. I dont think that Vitaly was awfull enough to get beaten by Mike Tyson, size difference would have given Vitaly the win.

I thought vitali was terrible Vs Chisora and if Chisora threw more punches it would of been a close fight.

paddy chavez wrote: ↑11 Feb 2018, 10:45

RandomUsername wrote: ↑10 Feb 2018, 20:33 I think that this one is really hard to pick. The two questions to answer are A. Was Tyson really so good? and B. Was Vitaly really as shitty as some people claimed that he was?

And then there is C. When were their primes?

I place Vitalies prime at the Chisora fight, a great performance. As for Tyson I think that it's 1989 vs Frank Bruno I.

The Chisora fight holds some indicators, A. Vitaly can take a punch. B. Punches can be easily landed on Vitaly. I think that it is safe to conclude that if we gave Tyson Chisoras frame that he would have had no problem defeating Vitaly by Ko but Chisora is 10cm taller than Tyson and outweighed Tyson by 40 pounds or so. I dont think that Vitaly was awfull enough to get beaten by Mike Tyson, size difference would have given Vitaly the win.

I thought vitali was terrible Vs Chisora and if Chisora threw more punches it would of been a close fight.

Vitali was old and injured by that point.

Are you going to judge Ali by his fights with Holmes, Berbick and Leon Spinks?

That was hardly prime Vitali.

Prime Vitali gave Lewis murders, and was outboxing him before getting busted up. That Vitali would I think have broken Tyson's resolve and smashed him up.

Klitschko was a tall guy, intelligent, good jab, decent power, tough chin.

Not a great mover but navigated the ring well. Knew where he was at all times.

Many of the traits necessary to beat Tyson. And beat him emphatically.

Tyson wasn't difficult to discourage. Everyone knows him as a mentally weak guy in the ring.

A frontrunner who relished dishing it out but squealed when sampling his own adversity.

He'd encounter too much of that adversity against Klitschko.

The jab, the power. The ability to withstand Tyson's shots whenever he got into range.

Could Klitschko get busted up and stopped on cuts?

Sure it's a possibility but who did that besides Lewis? Does Klitschko have that sort of history overall? No.

Tyson gives it his best for maybe 3 rounds and then wears down under Vitali's jab and right hand.

When Tyson gets inside (and that was never his favorite place to be) he'll be rocked with uppercuts and drained by body shots.

Tyson will be punished severely as the fight enters its later stages.

He quits in his corner, refusing to answer the bell for the 10th round.

Probably Vitali. To big and skilled with a style that is anything but stationary.

Tyson’s is best early but I think Vitali could take his punch and Tyson being close to a foot shorter would really have to reach up there.

RandomUsername wrote: ↑11 Feb 2018, 12:15

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑11 Feb 2018, 11:24
Vitali was old and injured by that point.

Are you going to judge Ali by his fights with Holmes, Berbick and Leon Spinks?

That was hardly prime Vitali.

Prime Vitali gave Lewis murders, and was outboxing him before getting busted up. That Vitali would I think have broken Tyson's resolve and smashed him up.

Nahhh. Lewis had a pretty easy time with that Vitaly. Vitaly learnt from that fight and got better after it. A huge price to pay for the education however.

I'm sorry, but that is bollocks. Lewis was definitely coming on strong, but he had lost every round until that point.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑11 Feb 2018, 12:29

RandomUsername wrote: ↑11 Feb 2018, 12:15

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑11 Feb 2018, 11:24
Vitali was old and injured by that point.

Are you going to judge Ali by his fights with Holmes, Berbick and Leon Spinks?

That was hardly prime Vitali.

Prime Vitali gave Lewis murders, and was outboxing him before getting busted up. That Vitali would I think have broken Tyson's resolve and smashed him up.

Nahhh. Lewis had a pretty easy time with that Vitaly. Vitaly learnt from that fight and got better after it. A huge price to pay for the education however.

I'm sorry, but that is bollocks. Lewis was definitely coming on strong, but he had lost every round until that point.

Lol, old, fat, unmotivated Lewis.

Vitali was 31, hardly a baby.

First of all, this belongs in Boxers of the Past.

I think Vitali would win. If you had to build a perfect fighter to beat Tyson, someone who was tall, rangey, teak tough, and capable of keeping Tyson on the end of his jab; Vitali would probably be the #1 fighter you would build. Buster Douglass beat Tyson just by being a poor man's version of Vitali. If you were going to design a real dream fighter to beat Tyson, it wouldn't be Buster Douglass, it would be Vitali, followed by Riddick Bowe and Lennox Lewis.

Pointless thread, as it’s impossible to answer. They were both great in their primes. Vitali would give HW throughout history REAL problems and in theory, I fancy him over Tyson. But, who really knows how any HW would fair against Tyson in the late 80’s.... Nobody....

They are both top 20 HWs of all time in my opinion and that’s enough.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑11 Feb 2018, 11:24

paddy chavez wrote: ↑11 Feb 2018, 10:45

RandomUsername wrote: ↑10 Feb 2018, 20:33 I think that this one is really hard to pick. The two questions to answer are A. Was Tyson really so good? and B. Was Vitaly really as shitty as some people claimed that he was?

And then there is C. When were their primes?

I place Vitalies prime at the Chisora fight, a great performance. As for Tyson I think that it's 1989 vs Frank Bruno I.

The Chisora fight holds some indicators, A. Vitaly can take a punch. B. Punches can be easily landed on Vitaly. I think that it is safe to conclude that if we gave Tyson Chisoras frame that he would have had no problem defeating Vitaly by Ko but Chisora is 10cm taller than Tyson and outweighed Tyson by 40 pounds or so. I dont think that Vitaly was awfull enough to get beaten by Mike Tyson, size difference would have given Vitaly the win.

I thought vitali was terrible Vs Chisora and if Chisora threw more punches it would of been a close fight.

Vitali was old and injured by that point.

Are you going to judge Ali by his fights with Holmes, Berbick and Leon Spinks?

That was hardly prime Vitali.

Prime Vitali gave Lewis murders, and was outboxing him before getting busted up. That Vitali would I think have broken Tyson's resolve and smashed him up.

I agree the guy I'm quoting said that was vitali's prime

gilgamesh wrote: ↑10 Feb 2018, 16:37 Vitali would give Tyson problems because Tyson always had problem with tall, skilled fighters. Even lesser ones than Vitali. I do believe that Vitali would be able to hang with Tyson in the early going, but I think Mike would be too aggressive ultimately and would wear Vitali down.

I don't expect he'd KO Vitali, but he might bust him up and stop him on cuts like Lewis did. But I'd be leaning toward Tyson to win a UD in a hard fought contest with Vitali.

I'm struggling to come up with a fight in Tyson's career where he won a hard fought unanimous decision...If Tyson was in there with a guy who wasn't afraid, was throwing back as opposed to simply trying to survive, and had legitimate talent, he gave up and went away. I don't think you can divorce that dynamic from this type of conversation.

Was Tyson a more dynamic, more talented fighter, quite possible, even quite likely. But, if we are going to pretend that he had a knack for adjusting and digging deep to find a way in two way wars we may as well pretend that Vitali had the hand speed of Roy Jones to even the playing field again.

jas80s wrote: ↑11 Feb 2018, 15:17

gilgamesh wrote: ↑10 Feb 2018, 16:37 Vitali would give Tyson problems because Tyson always had problem with tall, skilled fighters. Even lesser ones than Vitali. I do believe that Vitali would be able to hang with Tyson in the early going, but I think Mike would be too aggressive ultimately and would wear Vitali down.

I don't expect he'd KO Vitali, but he might bust him up and stop him on cuts like Lewis did. But I'd be leaning toward Tyson to win a UD in a hard fought contest with Vitali.

I'm struggling to come up with a fight in Tyson's career where he won a hard fought unanimous decision...If Tyson was in there with a guy who wasn't afraid, was throwing back as opposed to simply trying to survive, and had legitimate talent, he gave up and went away. I don't think you can divorce that dynamic from this type of conversation.

Was Tyson a more dynamic, more talented fighter, quite possible, even quite likely. But, if we are going to pretend that he had a knack for adjusting and digging deep to find a way in two way wars we may as well pretend that Vitali had the hand speed of Roy Jones to even the playing field again.

Razor Ruddock 2 certainly counts as a hard fought Unanimous Decision I'd say. James "Quick" Tillis won 4 of the 10 rounds against Mike as well. That doesn't exactly indicate a walk in the park.

jas80s wrote: ↑11 Feb 2018, 15:17

gilgamesh wrote: ↑10 Feb 2018, 16:37 Vitali would give Tyson problems because Tyson always had problem with tall, skilled fighters. Even lesser ones than Vitali. I do believe that Vitali would be able to hang with Tyson in the early going, but I think Mike would be too aggressive ultimately and would wear Vitali down.

I don't expect he'd KO Vitali, but he might bust him up and stop him on cuts like Lewis did. But I'd be leaning toward Tyson to win a UD in a hard fought contest with Vitali.

I'm struggling to come up with a fight in Tyson's career where he won a hard fought unanimous decision...If Tyson was in there with a guy who wasn't afraid, was throwing back as opposed to simply trying to survive, and had legitimate talent, he gave up and went away. I don't think you can divorce that dynamic from this type of conversation.

Was Tyson a more dynamic, more talented fighter, quite possible, even quite likely. But, if we are going to pretend that he had a knack for adjusting and digging deep to find a way in two way wars we may as well pretend that Vitali had the hand speed of Roy Jones to even the playing field again.

Razor Ruddock

gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Feb 2018, 15:22

jas80s wrote: ↑11 Feb 2018, 15:17

gilgamesh wrote: ↑10 Feb 2018, 16:37 Vitali would give Tyson problems because Tyson always had problem with tall, skilled fighters. Even lesser ones than Vitali. I do believe that Vitali would be able to hang with Tyson in the early going, but I think Mike would be too aggressive ultimately and would wear Vitali down.

I don't expect he'd KO Vitali, but he might bust him up and stop him on cuts like Lewis did. But I'd be leaning toward Tyson to win a UD in a hard fought contest with Vitali.

I'm struggling to come up with a fight in Tyson's career where he won a hard fought unanimous decision...If Tyson was in there with a guy who wasn't afraid, was throwing back as opposed to simply trying to survive, and had legitimate talent, he gave up and went away. I don't think you can divorce that dynamic from this type of conversation.

Was Tyson a more dynamic, more talented fighter, quite possible, even quite likely. But, if we are going to pretend that he had a knack for adjusting and digging deep to find a way in two way wars we may as well pretend that Vitali had the hand speed of Roy Jones to even the playing field again.

Razor Ruddock 2 certainly counts as a hard fought Unanimous Decision I'd say. James "Quick" Tillis won 4 of the 10 rounds against Mike as well. That doesn't exactly indicate a walk in the park.

Ruddock 2 was probably my best candidate as well. But, he was somewhat limited compared to Vitali. I am not trying to move the goal posts on you, so again I take your reply as a point taken. I just didn't fully agree as I think there was not the same danger of losing in that one, and I think it is the real danger of losing that shakes Tyson and triggers the tendency to lose resolve.

I don't want to make another post, so I wanted to add that Tillis was a very nice point as well. The reason that I didn't lead with that one myself (other than not remembering it right off the top of my head). Was once again, the danger of losing wasn't really present. Tyson had every reason to believe that he was leading throughout. Similarly, Tyson was consistently getting his punches off and with good effect. I think that fight demonstrated that Tillis was damn tough and showed great courage and resolve.

The point I am making about Tyson is against elite guys who could legitimately beat him through great skills and toughness, he was fragile. Tillis and Ruddock showed some of that certainly, but they didn't really have Tyson thinking, I don't think I can beat this guy. Admittedly, this is just my take on it, obviously, I don't profess to know what is in his head.

I can see him winning the fight, especially at his best. But, I think he would need to break out in front and get Vitali in to some kind of survival mode. Barring that, Vitali's ability to fight tall and take a punch would demoralize Tyson and he would get the win, likely sweeping the later rounds of the fight. My take.