BoxRec

Does anyone have any interesting tales on these “fighters”?

I expect most people will have heard of them and be aware they were primarily involved in illegal, backstreet fighting etc (when not kneecapping some poor swine for money owed!). I recall McClean was even scheduled to fight Mr-T , prior to him getting a role in the A-Team

I was just wondering how they’d have faired in theory, at their peaks, were they to enter the pro ranks. They’d lack style for sure, but being mean individuals I bet they could take a serious beating before going down, and I wouldn’t want to be on the receiving end of a punch from either one. Would they have been totally outclassed confined to Queensbury rules?

Views?

I have met Lenny Mclean and Roy Shaw both fearsome men who could really fight...

As boxers I think Roy would have faired better but both were ruthless street fighters...Roy still bloody is.

Loftgroov wrote:They’d lack style for sure, but being mean individuals I bet they could take a serious beating before going down

I'm not so sure mate, the late Lenny McClean was twice knocked out cold by former Pro Heavweight Cliff Field, in 5 and 2 rounds I think. This was around 1978 - 1982.

This fight was under Queensbury rules but not sanctioned by the BBBofC, they were possibly on a Pyle or Parker or even on a early Warren bill (unlicenced).

Lenny was also sparked (in the 1st I think) by the then amatuer Light-Heavyweight Johnny Waldron and outpointed by former Middle/Light-Heavyweight Pro Kevin Paddock again with the gloves on.

Although 'on the cobbles' I've heard from various sourses Lenny was near unbeatable.

You will probably know both brought out books.
Mickey Duff is said to have written Roy Shaw was one of the most promising boxers at the beginning of his career, then he was banged up and could not get licensed.
Roy Shaw did not take up the gloves again till he was getting on into middle age, and then he fought unlicensed.
In Lenny McLean’s book The Guvnor, he only lists one or two losses, all bad decisions, though I remember allegedly once writing that Lenny McLean lost more than he won in the ring.

There was one fight of his shown on the TV some years ago, it was a program about unlicensed boxing.
He fought a gypsy and as the ref brought them together to give them their last instructions the gypsy butted Lenny.
Lenny walked to his corner and waited for the bell to sound, then he walked over to the gypsy swung a round house punch which swept the gypsy off his feet then he jumped all over his head.
Perhaps the gloves did not suit Lenny McLean, though I would imagine an all-in would be more his style.

tonyevs wrote:There was one fight of his shown on the TV some years ago, it was a program about unlicensed boxing.
He fought a gypsy and as the ref brought them together to give them their last instructions the gypsy butted Lenny.
Lenny walked to his corner and waited for the bell to sound, then he walked over to the gypsy swung a round house punch which swept the gypsy off his feet then he jumped all over his head.
Perhaps the gloves did not suit Lenny McLean, though I would imagine an all-in would be more his style.

That was his fight with 'Mad gypsy' Bradshaw.

Gypsy Bradshaw must have been mad, he was a good couple of stone lighter and about 8inches shorter from what I remembered.

Incidently in that program, Ken Buchanan Took part (he fought himself in the unlicensed boxing after his licensed career), Buchanan claimed the unlicensed boxing had fairer fights and not so many one-sided matches were made.

got most of there fights on dvd,,, old footage like but got maybe 5 of each of there fights including ones against each other.. some fights in ring with ref but when they knock them down dont let ref make the count just jump about there heads...

tonyevs wrote:Gypsy Bradshaw must have been mad, he was a good couple of stone lighter and about 8inches shorter from what I remembered..

I've heard that Bradshaw and McLean prior to the fight were on friendly terms and that Bradshaw had took the fight at short notice when Lennys opponent had failed to show (possibly Paul Sykes). They agreed to have a 'straight fight' e.i. Boxing rules and not go too heavy on each other.

For some crazy reason Bradshaw nutten Lenny during the Refs instructions causing Lenny to have an alleged 'roid rage' with horrific results.

You can clearly see Reg Parker one of Britains strongest men needing help to pull Lenny off the unconsious Bradshaw.

KOJOE90 wrote:

tonyevs wrote:Gypsy Bradshaw must have been mad, he was a good couple of stone lighter and about 8inches shorter from what I remembered..

'roid rage'.

Roid rage classic

tonyevs wrote:Incidently in that program, Ken Buchanan Took part (he fought himself in the unlicensed boxing after his licensed career), Buchanan claimed the unlicensed boxing had fairer fights and not so many one-sided matches were made.

I'm sur Ken Buchanan fought one of the Feeney brothers on an unlicenced bill.

According to Charles Bronson - Lenny Mclean wasn't too interested in mixing with him. Bronson said that he did his best to make the fight and Mclean didn't want to know and at the time was picking and choosing his opponents carefully.

Lickszz wrote:According to Charles Bronson - Lenny Mclean wasn't too interested in mixing with him. Bronson said that he did his best to make the fight and Mclean didn't want to know and at the time was picking and choosing his opponents carefully.

This may or may not be true, but McLean, Shaw, Bronson, Gorman, Hall, Sykes, Franklin etc etc all claimed the others avoided them.

Bronson was only free for a short time and has spent most of his adult life in 'The Bighouse'.

Like i say have most of them on dvd, if anyone wants a copy will send one out for a few pounds cheers

Isn't Bronson the "world press-ups champion" or something? (as I recall)

As far as Prision records are concerned I think he is. I've read something about him doing 25 pressups with 2 people on his back.

tonyevs wrote:Mickey Duff is said to have written Roy Shaw was one of the most promising boxers at the beginning of his career, then he was banged up and could not get licensed.Roy Shaw did not take up the gloves again till he was getting on into middle age, and then he fought unlicensed..

Apparently Duff denies ever saying that about Shaw. Shaw clames to have a 10-0 (6 KO's) record in the 'legit' ring but records only show one fight I think he fought under the name Roy West.

tonyevs wrote:In Lenny McLean’s book The Guvnor, he only lists one or two losses, all bad decisions, though I remember allegedly allegedly once writing that Lenny McLean lost more than he won in the ring.

I heard McLean was something like 6-6 on the unlicensed curcuit.

Wins that I can recall were Shaw twice, Bradshaw, York.
Loses I can recall were Shaw, Fields twice, Waldron twice and Paddock.

Lickszz wrote:As far as Prision records are concerned I think he is. I've read something about him doing 25 pressups with 2 people on his back.

Didn't Bronson once challange anyone in the S.A.S. to a pressup charity match?

Lickszz wrote:As far as Prision records are concerned I think he is. I've read something about him doing 25 pressups with 2 people on his back.

f"ck volunlteering to be one of those 2 on his back

topper123 wrote:

Lickszz wrote:As far as Prision records are concerned I think he is. I've read something about him doing 25 pressups with 2 people on his back.

f"ck volunlteering to be one of those 2 on his back

Better than being underneath him.

kojoe 90 wrote

I'm sur Ken Buchanan fought one of the Feeney brothers on an unlicenced bill.

George fought Ken in London 1982- Feeney won on pts.- it wasn't unlicensed though. I remember in Buchanans book he says that his manager wanted him to fight this journeyman type,Ken believing it would be a welcome few quid and a relatively easy night but george won handily and in his next fight he won the British Title.

Ken did fight on the unlicensed scene but that was when he had "retired" and was working back as a joiner on the building sites.

Loftgroov wrote:Isn't Bronson the "world press-ups champion" or something? (as I recall)

Look to Brummie Iron Man Paddy Doyle as regards most of these records - loves his boxing and is a truly incredible fitness athlete

There is a big difference between bein a 'hardman' and being a skilled boxer for my money - I remember reading that Bob Foster's brother was a great street fighter but wasn't all that with gloves on...

I know from personal experience lads who could go all day in terms of a street brawl, but dont manage the same with gloves on...two completely different environments.

TerribleTerry wrote:There is a big difference between bein a 'hardman' and being a skilled boxer for my money - I remember reading that Bob Foster's brother was a great street fighter but wasn't all that with gloves on...

I know from personal experience lads who could go all day in terms of a street brawl, but dont manage the same with gloves on...two completely different environments.

I agree.

The other thing about unlicensed fighting is that due to the nature of the game, there is often no records kept, videos of fights etc.

So therefore word of mouth is often relied upon when it comes to results and the standard of the fighters. So therefore a lot of what you hear is false and half truths.

But it allows the myth of 'hardman legands' to grow out of propportion.

KOJOE90 wrote:

TerribleTerry wrote:There is a big difference between bein a 'hardman' and being a skilled boxer for my money - I remember reading that Bob Foster's brother was a great street fighter but wasn't all that with gloves on...

I know from personal experience lads who could go all day in terms of a street brawl, but dont manage the same with gloves on...two completely different environments.

I agree.

The other thing about unlicensed fighting is that due to the nature of the game, there is often no records kept, videos of fights etc.

So therefore word of mouth is often relied upon when it comes to results and the standard of the fighters. So therefore a lot of what you hear is false and half truths.

But it allows the myth of 'hardman legands' to grow out of propportion.

That's interesting to know. A lot of what I have read about McClean (admittedly often written either by himself or his associates) leaves you thinking the guy was awesome and near unbeatable in his prime as "The Guv'nor". Seems like 6 wins vs. 6 losses is more like his genuine record.

Very briefly ... when Johnny Waldron fought McClean he was supposed to lose in the fifth round. However he forgot the script and the place errupted. Together with his corner men Jack & Neil Bowers he barricaded himself in the gents. Neil later wrote up the story and Guy Ritchie took it and remodelled it into the film Snatch.