BoxRec

Carrying on with my 'Best Win Series'..



He had a record 36 wins, with 25 KO's!

Had a record of 10-2-1 (8 KOs) in world title fights.
Had a record of 7-3-1 (5 KOs) against former world champions:

Which was his best and/or defining win?

What was his best KO win?

Some names that he has fought include:

Wilfred Benitez
Roberto Duran
Ayub Kalule
Thomas Hearns
Marvin Hagler
Donny Lalonde

--------------------
Another question..

Regardless of win/loss.. Who was his best opponent?

From the list above, this would include the likes of:

Terry Norris
Hector Camacho

Best win? September 16, 1981 WTKO14 Thomas Hearns
Best opponent: Roberto Duran
Best KO win: WKO4 Dave "Boy" Green
Gutsiest performance: WTKO14 Thomas Hearns.

The Poll question was kinda pointless huh?

Best win it's either a toss up between Tommy Hearns 1 or Marvin Hagler.

Depending on how you look at it. He was definitely a bigger underdog against Hagler, and that was definitely a bigger upset at the time it happened, however as we all know it was Marvin's last fight, and he wasn't what he used to be by then though still obviously very good.

He and Tommy Hearns in their 1st fight were both in their primes and pretty much at their best.

Best performance I think was Duran II. To make such a great fighter look as bad as that takes something exteremely special. Best win, however? I gotta agree with those who say Hearns. Ray's game plan was seriously failing him in the early going plus he had the eye injury to contend with, yet by finding a way to turn it around and score the late stoppage the sugarman proved he had a huge warrior heart to go with his exceptional skills.

Which was his best and/or defining win?

Benitez, Duran #2, Hearns, Hagler.

What was his best KO win?

Hearns.

Regardless of win/loss.. Who was his best opponent?

Duran and Hearns. Duran, because he had won the 1st fight. Hearns, because Leonard hadn't been able to outbox him.

golden oldie wrote: ↑18 Feb 2018, 08:04 The poll doesn't ask.

Which was his worst defeat?

Which is obviously Duran 1.

Nobody in here want to talk THE ASS WHUPPIN he got from Duran, though.

OK anyway, he was not as good of a fighter when he beat Hagler as he was when he stopped Hearns and Duran. However, considering that he had been out for so long was just as impressive.

Beating Hagler after the long lay off

"Ass whuppin." "Over hyped prick."

Talk about going overboard.

Duran won the fight, but up to that time it was Leonard's finest hour.

Leonard fought the planet's toughest, dirtiest meanest fighter in the trenches for 15 grueling rounds and demonstrated to critics that he wasn't some fragile pretty boy who would crumble when finally tested.

He fought Duran's fight, Duran's style and frequently gave it back to El Cholo as good as he received.

A terrific demonstration of guts, toughness and heart on the part of Leonard.

How he can be derided, I have no idea.

SenorPipino wrote: ↑18 Feb 2018, 20:48 "Ass whuppin." "Over hyped prick."

Talk about going overboard.

Duran won the fight, but up to that time it was Leonard's finest hour.

Leonard fought the planet's toughest, dirtiest meanest fighter in the trenches for 15 grueling rounds and demonstrated to critics that he wasn't some fragile pretty boy who would crumble when finally tested.

He fought Duran's fight, Duran's style and frequently gave it back to El Cholo as good as he received.

A terrific demonstration of guts, toughness and heart on the part of Leonard.

How he can be derided, I have no idea.

This had been going on for years. Some people just hate Leonard and don't use the same logic towards him as they do other fighters.
There is always an excuse for why the other guy was not at his best.
Roberto "Forever a Lightweight" Duran was not a "real welterweight" despite all the evidence to the contrary.
Hearns was too light, he was a whopping two pounds under the limit after all.
Benitez had not trained enough even though he never did.
Hagler was past it. (Lets just forget it was Leonard who had been off for so long.)
Blah, blah, blah.

We have been hearing this nonsense for years now. Just mention his name and some people lose all sense of reason.

golden oldie wrote: ↑18 Feb 2018, 23:44

SenorPipino wrote: ↑18 Feb 2018, 20:48 "Ass whuppin." "Over hyped prick."

Talk about going overboard.

Duran won the fight, but up to that time it was Leonard's finest hour.

Leonard fought the planet's toughest, dirtiest meanest fighter in the trenches for 15 grueling rounds and demonstrated to critics that he wasn't some fragile pretty boy who would crumble when finally tested.

He fought Duran's fight, Duran's style and frequently gave it back to El Cholo as good as he received.

A terrific demonstration of guts, toughness and heart on the part of Leonard.

How he can be derided, I have no idea.

Erm, possibly because Murica's darling was a natural Welterweight, whereas the stumpy little 5' 7" Duran with the 67" reach was a natural Lightweight, as evidenced by his spending 10 of his previous 12 year career fighting at the lower weight.

Yet the naturally smaller guy took the fight straight to Leonard, FORCING him to fight out of his comfort zone. Nothing to do with Leonard " fighting Duran's fight " at all. Roberto pressured him from the opening bell, until the end. Full stop.

A huge black mark on Leonard's resume.

Leonard was fighting for survival. Grabbing and clutching is not fighting toe to toe. Especially, if you're the bigger man. He got whupped besides all that clutching and grabbing. If he really slug it out with Manos de Piedra that night, he would have gotten knocked out. That's why I say that Duran is the greatest boxer if the last 50 years. That fight proved it to a lot of people. Duran, the bessst!!!

Notice that Duran Best win thread wasn't hijacked into a Leonard thread. Classy.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑19 Feb 2018, 16:43 Notice that Duran Best win thread wasn't hijacked into a Leonard thread. Classy.

I'll do Duran next

I was actually referring to NYDominican's recent "Roberto Duran, what would" thread where he asked for Duran's 5 best and 5 worst performances. A "Roberto Duran Best win?" thread would be redundant.

Ray's best win was Tommy Hearns. Even though in the right scenario, he ends that fight in the sixth or seventh round.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑19 Feb 2018, 16:54 I was actually referring to NYDominican's recent "Roberto Duran, what would" thread where he asked for Duran's 5 best and 5 worst performances. A "Roberto Duran Best win?" thread would be redundant.

Ah yes. I remember viewing that thread.

golden oldie wrote: ↑19 Feb 2018, 17:59

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑19 Feb 2018, 16:43 Notice that Duran Best win thread wasn't hijacked into a Leonard thread. Classy.

That is the point though fanboy. There was a best and worst performance scenario in the Duran thread. In this one there is no mention of dear little Leonards worst performance. Non fanboys might consider that as biased.

I've done a number of these threads now and not once have I asked what the boxers 'worst performance' is/was.. I like to think of these as positive threads about boxers. If you want to mention a bad performance then by all means do so. There is no bias here.

I'm not taking anything away from Leonard, although I understand if his fans read it this way, but Emanuel Steward really blew it by having Thomas Hearns weigh in @ 145 pounds. It cost him dearly in the later rounds. If you watch the fight, Hearns is barely perspiring because he was badly dehydrated. But Manny got his usual huge cut of the purse.

I don't have a problem with anyone calling Leonard the best fighter of his era because he certainly has a case, but I think an underrated key to his success was the way he was handled. Mike Trainer got Duran back into the ring with Leonard five months after the Montreal fight. Roberto had spent a good portion of that time partying and he wasn't prepared for the rematch.

Hearns best/defining win. Gutsy performance to turn that fight around

Hearns best ko for the sheer drama and timing of the ko

Hagler best opponent as he fought Duran at welterweight rather than lightweight

Best weight welterweight

Not many think Hagler was his best win, despite his lay-off..

Is this because the win is highly disputed? Or was No-mas and the Hearns win just that much better.?

Hearns and Leonard were naturally similar weights I believe.

I think if you want to look at it a certain way, then the Hagler win was his best. In over 130 years of boxing history, nobody else has ever come back after that long of a layoff and beat a great fighter in his first fight back. He was supposed to get crushed in that fight. He performed much better than expected. From that angle, it was his greatest victory and one of the greatest victories in the history of the sport.

Now if you just watch the wins over Duran, Hearns, and Hagler fights without any context, he was not as good of a fighter against Hagler.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑20 Feb 2018, 11:49 I think if you want to look at it a certain way, then the Hagler win was his best. In over 130 years of boxing history, nobody else has ever come back after that long of a layoff and beat a great fighter in his first fight back. He was supposed to get crushed in that fight. He performed much better than expected. From that angle, it was his greatest victory and one of the greatest victories in the history of the sport.

Now if you just watch the wins over Duran, Hearns, and Hagler fights without any context, he was not as good of a fighter against Hagler.

But you can still call it a good win of course. I understand everything you've said. If I was to just watch the 3 fights, you could call Leonard's performance vs. Hagler worse than when he fought Duran and Hearns?

Yes, if you just watched the three fights, the Hagler fight would be his worst performance of the three. After the long layoff, his speed and reflexes had slowed.

golden oldie wrote: ↑22 Feb 2018, 18:25

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑19 Feb 2018, 19:22

golden oldie wrote: ↑19 Feb 2018, 17:59

That is the point though fanboy. There was a best and worst performance scenario in the Duran thread. In this one there is no mention of dear little Leonards worst performance. Non fanboys might consider that as biased.

I've done a number of these threads now and not once have I asked what the boxers 'worst performance' is/was.. I like to think of these as positive threads about boxers. If you want to mention a bad performance then by all means do so. There is no bias here.

That is completely my mistake because it wasn't in fact YOU that started the thread in which Duran's worst performance was brought up. My apologies.

No worries pal.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑22 Feb 2018, 15:45 Yes, if you just watched the three fights, the Hagler fight would be his worst performance of the three. After the long layoff, his speed and reflexes had slowed.

Maybe if they had fought a few years early..