BoxRec

I have not any valid answer. What about you ?

Ortiz and Povetkin probably have the best skillset, somehow they are getting old and slow, on top of that, Povetkin isn't a natural boxer, he's just very very very skilled, but he got the shortest arms of them all I think.
Tyson Fury got pretty much the perfect body, long legs, short body, very long arms, if you got a body like that, it's much more easy to box.

For one to even be a top 5 (or even a top 10 heavyweight) with the shortest reach and shorter than average height and size. They have to be extremely skilled. That's why I think it's Alexander Povetkin!

Boxers like Tyson Fury, Anthony Joshua, Deontay Wilder and even Luis Ortiz can rely on their size to be effective and successful and not much on skill. Alexander Povetkin can't because he doesn't possess their size. If someone is small and is still a top heavyweight like Alexander Povetkin is, it means they have to be the most skilled to overcome their lack of size. Otherwise, how can they be a top heavyweight in the first place?

i voted Povetkin. he just lacks height and reach, but his skills are just great

Usyk after one more fight.

marvelous marv wrote: ↑24 Feb 2018, 11:12 Usyk after one more fight.

I have to agree with you there.

Right now, It is Tyson Fury. He is one sneaky bastard for one and he outboxed Wlad among other things.

I answered "Povetkin" before seeing any results or comments. It's gratifying to see so many of us on the same page, although I was surprised.

Povetkin might be in decline now but he has been at the top for a long time now, always in the top six of any fan who is not a hater.

He's only 6' 1" and basically little more than a well-uphostered cruiserweight. He has good power, he's tough and has a good engine but that only gets you so far. He has never been fleet of foot either but has consistently overcome heavyweights who are bigger than he is. Clearly he has an advantage in technique. Dat man got skillz !

At 38 he can't have a lot longer at the top. We should appreciate him while we still have him. Nothing against Miller or Wilder but I'd like to see Povetkin get a title-shot against AJ before he is definitely past his sell-by-date. I think it'd be a painful night for him but he will be able to ride off into the sunset with a damn good pension.

Right now nobody at Heavyweight is especially skilled. Jarrell Miller has solid skills, but he's so fat he'll never get the best out of his potential. Ditto Tyson Fury.

When some of the current Cruisers move up they'll be the most talented boxers in the division, but they'll still be troubled by the power of the natural Heavies who I think it's safe to assume will continue improving their skills as well.

AJ

I was surprised as well when I voted to see Povitkin in the lead.
I votes for him because he is good at making up for his shortcomings physically, with his skills- which makes him the most skilled.
I am impressed with how Parker can fight off the back foot, and how AJ is now waiting for his openings and showing some maturity. Ortiz is probably the best schooled of the bunch, but is slowing down, which negates a lot of that.

Out of the current active Heavyweights, I chose Ortiz.

Tyson Fury is not active. Why not include Wlad and some others if you are including Fury?

I'm sorry, but I just get sick of hearing about a guy that is not relevant. Pretty much the same as I like hearing about Floyd. They want their name to still be relevant, but that is it.

Wlad is 42 next month, Fury is 29.

Wlad has said he won't be coming back and turned down mega-money to challenge Joshua without having to wait or fight anyone else to earn the shot. We can safely say he's done.

Fury on the other hand has unfinished business and claims he's on the come-back-trail. No opponents are scheduled yet but he's dropping weight at a rate of knots and he is not a man to train for the hell of it as evidenced by his undisciplined ballooning in weight and girth following his last fight.

If we don't see him back in the professional ring within this year, I'll be astonished. Blinded by disdain, some of you.

Tyson Fury isn't even that skilled. Otherwise, he would be able to KO opponents who are much smaller than him more frequently.

I'd say that prime David Haye was even more skilled than any version of Tyson Fury. Fury primarily relies on his size advantage to win bouts. Which involves out-muscling his opponents. Or the ability to lean far away whilst landing soft punches from a distance.

Anthony Joshua is also more skilled than Tyson Fury.

Someone who doesn't possess a size advantage over their opponents, but is still relatively successful is the one who is most skilled. Otherwise, how can they be successful if they weren't very skilled since they don't possess any size advantages that they could rely on?

A boxer who is very big, strong and powerful doesn't need to be very skilled to be successful at heavyweight boxing. Simply because they can rely on those particular attributes instead of any high level boxing skills to achieve success.

Tyson Fury is a slightly better version of Nikolai Valuev. Who himself isn't very skilled but has one of the best heavyweight records with only 2 losses. That's because his huge size advantage is a substitute for his lack of skills.

Andy Ruiz Jr. throws the best punch combinations. He has the fighting style and punch variety of a middleweight, despite being an obese individual competing as a heavyweight.

Is Andy Ruiz Jr. “elite” though? Well in my mind, he’d be very competitive and may possibly be capable of beating the likes of Parker, Whyte, Pulev, Haye and Hughie Fury. I think he'd even stand a chance against Povetkin and Ortiz.

For the record, my opinion isn't due to me rating Ruiz Jr. really highly. On the contrary, I feel that today's heavyweights don't possess a fundamentally sound boxing technique. It currently seems to be all about power athleticism, size, throwing the jab and the occasional old one-two combo.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑26 Feb 2018, 12:45 Andy Ruiz Jr. throws the best punch combinations. He has the fighting style and punch variety of a middleweight, despite being an obese individual competing as a heavyweight.

Is Andy Ruiz Jr. “elite” though? Well in my mind, he’d be very competitive and may possibly be capable of beating the likes of Parker, Whyte, Pulev, Haye and Hughie Fury. I think he'd even stand a chance against Povetkin and Ortiz.

For the record, my opinion isn't due to me rating Ruiz Jr. really highly. On the contrary, I feel that today's heavyweights don't possess a fundamentally sound boxing technique. It currently seems to be all about power athleticism, size, throwing the jab and the occasional old one-two combo.

I don't agree about Povetkin, Ortiz and (fit) Haye.

ValMar wrote: ↑26 Feb 2018, 13:45

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑26 Feb 2018, 12:45 Andy Ruiz Jr. throws the best punch combinations. He has the fighting style and punch variety of a middleweight, despite being an obese individual competing as a heavyweight.

Is Andy Ruiz Jr. “elite” though? Well in my mind, he’d be very competitive and may possibly be capable of beating the likes of Parker, Whyte, Pulev, Haye and Hughie Fury. I think he'd even stand a chance against Povetkin and Ortiz.

For the record, my opinion isn't due to me rating Ruiz Jr. really highly. On the contrary, I feel that today's heavyweights don't possess a fundamentally sound boxing technique. It currently seems to be all about power athleticism, size, throwing the jab and the occasional old one-two combo.

I don't agree about Povetkin, Ortiz and (fit) Haye.

"Standing a chance" is not synonymous with the phrase "he would beat".

I think he'd be very competitive against those guys and could even score an upset over one of them.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑26 Feb 2018, 13:56

ValMar wrote: ↑26 Feb 2018, 13:45

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑26 Feb 2018, 12:45 Andy Ruiz Jr. throws the best punch combinations. He has the fighting style and punch variety of a middleweight, despite being an obese individual competing as a heavyweight.

Is Andy Ruiz Jr. “elite” though? Well in my mind, he’d be very competitive and may possibly be capable of beating the likes of Parker, Whyte, Pulev, Haye and Hughie Fury. I think he'd even stand a chance against Povetkin and Ortiz.

For the record, my opinion isn't due to me rating Ruiz Jr. really highly. On the contrary, I feel that today's heavyweights don't possess a fundamentally sound boxing technique. It currently seems to be all about power athleticism, size, throwing the jab and the occasional old one-two combo.

I don't agree about Povetkin, Ortiz and (fit) Haye.

"Standing a chance" is not synonymous with the phrase "he would beat".

I think he'd be very competitive against those guys and could even score an upset over one of them.

Luis Fernando12 wrote: ↑26 Feb 2018, 10:30 Tyson Fury isn't even that skilled. Otherwise, he would be able to KO opponents who are much smaller than him more frequently.

I'd say that prime David Haye was even more skilled than any version of Tyson Fury. Fury primarily relies on his size advantage to win bouts. Which involves out-muscling his opponents. Or the ability to lean far away whilst landing soft punches from a distance.

Anthony Joshua is also more skilled than Tyson Fury.

Someone who doesn't possess a size advantage over their opponents, but is still relatively successful is the one who is most skilled. Otherwise, how can they be successful if they weren't very skilled since they don't possess any size advantages that they could rely on?

A boxer who is very big, strong and powerful doesn't need to be very skilled to be successful at heavyweight boxing. Simply because they can rely on those particular attributes instead of any high level boxing skills to achieve success.

Tyson Fury is a slightly better version of Nikolai Valuev. Who himself isn't very skilled but has one of the best heavyweight records with only 2 losses. That's because his huge size advantage is a substitute for his lack of skills.

You can't compare Fury with Valuev, your criticisms really don't apply to Fury.

I do sort of agree that TF isn't very skillful but that is largely dependent on how you define skillful : Fury at his best has excellent mobility, is very elusive and difficult to pin down. He has a decent jab as you'd expect of a man of 6'9", and he knows how to use his height and reach to their best advantage. Well that's skillful isn't it? Yes, not every heavyweight of similar proportions can boast all or any of these attributes so Fury isn't devoid of skill.

To me though, skill at boxing in it's purest sense, is nothing to do with hand or foot speed, it is nothing to do with mobility. The truly skillful fighter to my mind, is one who can stand right in front of you and defy you to land a glove on him. He is frequently very economical in his movements. AJ has sound technique but can appear to lack fluidity and head movement. I would cite Povetkin as the most skillful perhaps also Ortiz as the best technicians presently campaigning in the heavyweight division.

With Povetkin it's a conclusion arrived at by process of elimination : put simply he's very small for a hwt, he's not especially quick, he consistently beats bigger men ergo he must have superior technique although I don't watch him and find myself awed by his defence, but if you were to ask me who is visibly a highly skilled technician operating in or around the division I would without hesitation answer Oleksandr Usyk.

Voted for T. Fury. He can box and he can do that with his size, that's a skill. He has outboxed Klitschko, who had a better skillset, than anyone in this list.

candyslim wrote: ↑26 Feb 2018, 15:25

Luis Fernando12 wrote: ↑26 Feb 2018, 10:30 Tyson Fury isn't even that skilled. Otherwise, he would be able to KO opponents who are much smaller than him more frequently.

I'd say that prime David Haye was even more skilled than any version of Tyson Fury. Fury primarily relies on his size advantage to win bouts. Which involves out-muscling his opponents. Or the ability to lean far away whilst landing soft punches from a distance.

Anthony Joshua is also more skilled than Tyson Fury.

Someone who doesn't possess a size advantage over their opponents, but is still relatively successful is the one who is most skilled. Otherwise, how can they be successful if they weren't very skilled since they don't possess any size advantages that they could rely on?

A boxer who is very big, strong and powerful doesn't need to be very skilled to be successful at heavyweight boxing. Simply because they can rely on those particular attributes instead of any high level boxing skills to achieve success.

Tyson Fury is a slightly better version of Nikolai Valuev. Who himself isn't very skilled but has one of the best heavyweight records with only 2 losses. That's because his huge size advantage is a substitute for his lack of skills.

You can't compare Fury with Valuev, your criticisms really don't apply to Fury.

I do sort of agree that TF isn't very skillful but that is largely dependent on how you define skillful : Fury at his best has excellent mobility, is very elusive and difficult to pin down. He has a decent jab as you'd expect of a man of 6'9", and he knows how to use his height and reach to their best advantage. Well that's skillful isn't it? Yes, not every heavyweight of similar proportions can boast all or any of these attributes so Fury isn't devoid of skill.

To me though, skill at boxing in it's purest sense, is nothing to do with hand or foot speed, it is nothing to do with mobility. The truly skillful fighter to my mind, is one who can stand right in front of you and defy you to land a glove on him. He is frequently very economical in his movements. AJ has sound technique but can appear to lack fluidity and head movement. I would cite Povetkin as the most skillful perhaps also Ortiz as the best technicians presently campaigning in the heavyweight division.

With Povetkin it's a conclusion arrived at by process of elimination : put simply he's very small for a hwt, he's not especially quick, he consistently beats bigger men ergo he must have superior technique although I don't watch him and find myself awed by his defence, but if you were to ask me who is visibly a highly skilled technician operating in or around the division I would without hesitation answer Oleksandr Usyk.

For me, I define 'skills' as the ability to hit opponent and inflict damage upon opponent (Offensive skills) and not get hit in return (defensive skills) without reliance on size advantage (weight and physical strength advantage).

A boxer who relies the least on his size and still remains the best boxer offensively and defensively combined, is the most 'skilled' boxer in my opinion. For me, offensive skills are more important than defensive skills though. Thus, everything else being equal, the better offensive boxer is the more skilled boxer.

If a boxer relies on grappling as a means of defense. Then that boxer isn't being skillful defensively from a boxing perspective because he is relying on physical strength and non-boxing moves (wrestling). But if the same boxer is able to avoid getting hit whilst blocking, parrying and evading opponent's punches through body movement, then that boxer is using legitimate boxing moves to accomplish the objective and is therefore being skillful defensively.

If a boxer manages to consistently KO opponents without needing to bully their opponents by muscling them into vulnerable positions or walking through them (reliance on size advantage). Then they are also very skilled offensively.

This is why I think Povetkin is the most skilled boxer in the heavyweight division because he accomplishes those objectives of boxing without as much reliance on size and he does it better than everyone else in my opinion.

Ask yourself what is a better display of skill:

- A smaller sized boxer knocking their much bigger sized opponent out inside the distance whilst winning most rounds and whilst not getting hit much (Alexander Povetkin knocking out Johan Duhapas).

Or

- A much bigger sized boxer beating a much smaller sized opponent by decision whilst rarely getting hit but whilst also barely inflicting much damage upon them (Tyson Fury's win over Dereck Chisora).


For me, the former is much more impressive because it shows high level offensive + defensive skills without a reliance on size advantage. Whilst the latter shows very little offensive skills but mainly defensive skills with a reliance on size advantage.

And also ask yourself if two boxers KO a common opponent (Carlos Takam). But one of them is smaller in size with less punching power (Alexander Povetkin) and the other is bigger with greater power (Anthony Joshua). Who is more skilled?

Since Alexander Povetkin has less power. He needs to be much more skilled offensively in order to KO this same opponent because he needs to be more accurate and possess much better timing. So the margin for error his lower. Povetkin has to be more precise. More accurate. Thus requiring more offensive skills.

On the other hand, since Anthony Joshua has greater punching power and is bigger in size. He doesn't need to be as accurate and have as good a timing a sPovetkin because even less accurate and precise punches are going to inflict more damage on Carlos Takam than the punches landed by the smaller and less powerful Alexander Povetkin. Thus, Joshua doesn't need to be more skilled.

What Alexander Povetkin does has to be considered very impressive in terms of boxing skills. And although his defense isn't Floyd Mayweather Jr like. For a come forward pressure fighter that happens to be a knockout artist. his defense is one of, if not the best pound for pound.

I would personally rank small skilled heavyweights like Alexander Povetkin that consistently need to fight much larger opponents for having success higher in pound for pound rankings than weight bullies in lower weight divisions like Terence Crawford and Errol Spence Jr who rely on mainly their size advantage to gain their success.

I wonder who voted on Wilder, Wilder was slaughtered harder in the olympics as Alexander Usyk when they were still both in the cruiserweight division and fought the same guy who later lost himself as well. He was in fact uncredebly lucky to be one of the several guys who won a bronze medal, while David Price won his medal in the heavyweight division that olympics.

I think we are basically on the same page Luis, although I think there is a tendency, which I'm probably guilty of, to laud those for their skill who are deficient in size, speed, or power, yet remain successful at the expense of others that are not (deficient in those areas).

What I mean is it's easy to overlook a man's fundamental boxing skills, such as we are talking about, if the man has blinding hand and foot speed for example, but there is no reason a boxer cannot combine the two, although I guess if you are blessed with such attributes, there may not be quite the same necessity for developing your technique.