Considering that Kalan and a few others are implying that The Rock was essentially bought and paid for by the mob and that he was also a bum...
The question becomes just how many Heavyweight champions could Marciano have beaten? How many contenders (per decade, from 1880 onwards) could he have beaten?
Let's really try and solve that equation and see if he's worthy of a top ten ranking, or if he really is so worthless. Marciano vs Everyone, is essentially the topic at hand: Sullivan to Fury.
Whose up for the challenge?
All matches are 15 rounds.
Marciano vs Sullivan
Marciano vs Corbett
Marciano vs Fitzsimmons
Marciano vs Jeffries
Marciano vs Marvin Hart
Marciano vs Tommy Burns
Marciano vs Jack Johnson
Marciano vs Jess Willard
Marciano vs Dempsey
Marciano vs Tunney
Marciano vs Sharkey
Marciano vs Schmeling
Marciano vs Carnera
Marciano vs Baer
Marciano vs Braddock
Marciano vs Louis
Marciano vs Charles
Marciano vs Walcott
Marciano vs Patterson
Marciano vs Liston
Marciano vs Ali
Marciano vs Frazier
Marciano vs Foreman
Marciano vs Norton
Marciano vs Holmes
Marciano vs The WBA Champions (80s)
Marciano vs Tyson
Marciano vs Holyfield
Marciano vs Lewis
Marciano vs The Klitschko's
Marciano vs Fury
Re: The Worth of Rocky Marciano
Posted: 03 Mar 2018, 03:19
by Kalan
He’d have a fair shot at beating Sullivan, Corbett, Fitzsimmons, Hart, Burns, Willard, Sharkey, Carnera, Baer, and Walcott… Sullivan didn’t fight enough Queensberry Rules fights to be competitive with hardly anyone… Corbett didn’t actually fight enough fights either… Bob Fitz fought a lot, but was too small… A lot of the rest I mentioned were poorly skilled, so Rocky had a fair chance to beat them -- starting with Willard.
I don’t see Rocky beating most of them… Not even Patterson, Norton, Schmeling, Charles, and Frazier...Charles was very small, but he was a great boxer at his best and couldn’t beat anybody at his worst.. I think he was suffering from early inroads of ALS for many years before he was finally diagnosed with the killer disease.. Charles beat Walcott handily the first 2 times they fought... Charles beat many good fighters before 1951 when he was looking really sharp and masterful.
Re: The Worth of Rocky Marciano
Posted: 03 Mar 2018, 16:13
by BitPlayer
Everyone on that list, and Rocky, are great fighters. Some are better than others, but we don't need to constantly put down other legends to big up our picks.
I'm all for fantasy fights, but this thread seems a bit ill spirited.
Rocky was very good, but his lack of size would probably make him lose to few, there's a fair few I think could go either way.
Anyway here's Reznick's awesome tribute to him
Re: The Worth of Rocky Marciano
Posted: 03 Mar 2018, 16:36
by BitPlayer
Of the ones I know enough about.
Marciano vs Sullivan ??? Can't really say, with no video, and poor reporting (so it's hard to even asses him by resume). Might depend on the ruleset. I think Sully was likely a lot better than most think. Likely be a war while it lasts
Marciano vs Corbett Damn, I think Corbett in his prime could do it, but he might go to trade 1 too many times and get KOed while up on the cards;
Marciano vs Fitzsimmons WAR!!! Could go either way, probably an advantage to Rocky
Marciano vs Jeffries Really brutal attritional fight, Rocky over a shorter distance, but Jeffries if it was 20 rounds plus, Jeffries was pretty attritional.
Marciano vs Tommy Burns Rocky, I think his size power etc. would be too much for Burns.
Marciano vs Jack Johnson Johnson, just so big, so fast so clever.
Marciano vs Dempsey Another war. Dempsey is maybe a bit more skilled, really couldn't pick.
Marciano vs Tunney I might favour Rocky actually, maybe I just don't know enough about Tunney though.
Marciano vs Baer Baer could maybe catch him, but I'd favour Rocky.
Marciano vs Louis Gotta favour Louis
Marciano vs Walcott Damn, can't pick, I feel like I ought to favour Wallcot
Marciano vs Ali Go to be Ali
Marciano vs Foreman Foreman might just be too much. If Rocky could survive, maybe he could get him late though.
Marciano vs Tyson Really hard one to pick. Maybe Tyson would be to much, but I think Rocky would find a way to win if he could be competitive
Marciano vs Holyfield WAR!! I'd pick Holyfield though, Holyfield was awesome.
Marciano vs Lewis Lewis. Not shame in that.
Marciano vs Vitali Klitschko If he could handle his size, Rocky might be able to grind out a decision, or stop him on cuts (or make him quit on his stool)
Marciano vs Wlad Klitschko Maybe just too much size and power. If Rocky could catch him though. . .
Marciano vs Fury I think just too damn big and awkward. Definitely can't count Rocky out.
Re: The Worth of Rocky Marciano
Posted: 03 Mar 2018, 21:21
by APerno
Marciano vs Sullivan - Sullivan not skilled enough Marciano vs Corbett - He catches Corbett late just as Jeffries did. Marciano vs Fitzsimmons - Too big for Fitz
Marciano vs Jeffries - not sure
Marciano vs Marvin Hart - no opinion; I don't know enough (anything) about Hart; I do agree he should be listed as one of the lineal champs. Marciano vs Tommy Burns - Too strong for Burns
Marciano vs Jack Johnson - Out boxed, maybe even outboxed for 25 rounds if you like; the 1910 version of Johnson. Marciano vs Jess Willard - Dempsey-Willard redux.
Marciano vs Dempsey - Best fight on the card; multiple KDs; Dempsey gets up one more time than Marciano.
Marciano vs Tunney - Out boxed but not beaten; Tunney by boring UD Marciano vs Sharkey - Couldn't handle Marciano's power.
Marciano vs Schmeling - Out boxed; 1936 version; you know the guy who showed up for Louis I. Marciano vs Carnera - Carnera's jab and grabbing keeps him off till the later rounds, but in the end 'timber.' Marciano vs Baer - Discipline over talent yet again. Marciano vs Braddock - Braddock will look good until he doesn't; late KO
Marciano vs Louis - 1941 Louis never lets Marciano find his zone; cuts him up. Marciano vs Charles - UD & 8th round KO; I'm ready to bet on this one any takers? Marciano vs Walcott - 13th round KO; 1st round KO Marciano vs Patterson - 1952 Marciano behind on all score cards pulls a rabbit out his hat; late KO; Walcott I redux.
Marciano vs Liston - Too much jab; better boxer and can match Marciano's strength.
Marciano vs Ali - Ali by UD; Like Tunney, Ali wins but never beats the guy. Marciano vs Frazier - Second best fight on the card; Marciano by late KO.
Marciano vs Foreman - Foreman-Frazier redux Marciano vs Norton - Easier fight than you might think; Marciano by early KO
Marciano vs Holmes -Out jabbed; out boxed over 15 rounds; more likely to give Marciano a beating than Ali.
Marciano vs Tyson - Third best match-up on the card; pick-em; maybe who lands first.
Marciano vs Holyfield - Holyfield may be too strong; the 'juice' would be the difference; unjuiced Holyfield doesn't last three rounds.
Marciano vs Lewis - Lewis too big; maybe a KO
Marciano vs The Klitschko's - Pick-em; Demspey-Willard redux maybe; maybe a very boring 15 round UD for the Russians; but I do mean a really boring; 15 rounds of grabbing; Bone Crusher Smith-Tyson redux.
Marciano vs Fury - no opinion; never saw Fury fight.
Why no Joshua? - If Joshua has a chin he wins; too big for Marciano; jury still out on Anthony's chin.
Re: The Worth of Rocky Marciano
Posted: 05 Mar 2018, 05:51
by Kalan
Joshua has NOT been dropped as many times in Heavyweight Championship fights as Marciano has... And AJ hasn't been dropped by a Light Heavyweight who started his pro boxing career as a Welterweight... Marciano was.
Rocky had 7 Title Fights.... Joshua is coming up on his 6th... The 3rd Title Challenger Rocky fought went the distance with him... He was a very small, washed up guy who'd been knocked out a couple times before.
Rocky stops Norton quickly??? You're trying to make Foreman out of Marciano... Norton pounds Rocky to an early stoppage like he did Ron Stander and Jerry Quarry.... Rocky is too small for any strapping big Heavyweight like Norton.
Rocky knocks Joe Frazier out??? DUDE!!! Marciano had to go 9 rounds with Don Cockell... 15 rounds with washed up Ezzard Charles... 9 rounds with old Light Heavyweight Archie Moore... How long do those 3 worn out characters go with Frazier??? Think about that... How many ATG Light Heavyweight Champions did Joe Frazier fight???.... One (1)... He fought Big Bob Foster who wasn't 40 years old.. Foster is the man who iced Mike Quarry and Dick Tiger with displays of firepower that you never saw from Don Cockell, a chinny guy who got knocked out by Middleweights ... Foster weighed 188 for Frazier and Joe ran him over like an express train... Frazier had 21 pounds on Foster... Just too big for him dude, and too big for Rocky too.
Tyson vs Marciano isn't up for grabs... That's a 1 round job and you know who wins as well as I do... Think about Floyd Patterson weighing 190 pounds while Sonny Liston weighed 215... For prime Tyson we take 218 vs 184??? ... That's 34 pounds.
Please rethink those mistaken ideas APerno...
Your picks aren't all bad... Marciano beats Tommy Burns... That one's good.
Re: The Worth of Rocky Marciano
Posted: 05 Mar 2018, 08:27
by Crease
Kalan wrote: ↑05 Mar 2018, 05:51Rocky had 7 Title Fights.... Joshua is coming up on his 6th... The 3rd Title Challenger Rocky fought went the distance with him... He was a very small, washed up guy who'd been knocked out a couple times before.
AJ's title reign has not been great thus far. When you look at Charles Martin, Dominic Breazale, Eric Molina & Carlos Takam - it's a poor bunch of names and can hardly be described as ripping up tree roots.
AJ's lone significant win was his victory over Wlad. And you'd have to put the Parker fight down as a good one - not because of the quality of the opponent but because of the importance of unifying three of the belts.
If you truly wanted to compare AJ's run with The Rock's, you would need to be including the likes of top fighters like Alexander Povetkin, Luis Ortiz & Kubrat Pulev in there.
Re: The Worth of Rocky Marciano
Posted: 05 Mar 2018, 08:29
by Crease
Looking at that aboveblist of Champions, I'd be expecting The Rock to beat most of them.
I will do a detailed analysis of it tomorrow.
Kalan wrote: ↑05 Mar 2018, 05:51Rocky had 7 Title Fights.... Joshua is coming up on his 6th... The 3rd Title Challenger Rocky fought went the distance with him... He was a very small, washed up guy who'd been knocked out a couple times before.
AJ's title reign has not been great thus far. When you look at Charles Martin, Dominic Breazale, Eric Molina & Carlos Takam - it's a poor bunch of names and can hardly be described as ripping up tree roots.
AJ's lone significant win was his victory over Wlad. And you'd have to put the Parker fight down as a good one - not because of the quality of the opponent but because of the importance of unifying three of the belts.
If you truly wanted to compare AJ's run with The Rock's, you would need to be including the likes of top fighters like Alexander Povetkin, Luis Ortiz & Kubrat Pulev in there.
You've got to be kidding... Martin was an undefeated Heavyweight Champion.. Breazeale was undefeated and Joshua is still their only defeats... Molina is not real good.. but Takam is a real good Heavyweight who AJ dominated.. Klitschko hadn't been stopped in a dozen years or so.
There wasn't a single viable and youthful Heavyweight with any size, power and skill to challenge Marciano... Liston was the only real challenger Patterson had .... and brutally beat Floyd into the canvas in the 1st round twice.
Your picks aren't all bad... Marciano beats Tommy Burns... That one's good.
I sorry I am going to rethink all my picks right now, just give me a moment, (except the Burns one of course). You are right I probably did get he Johnson fight wrong, The way Willard was able to land so many clean shots leading to his KO over Johnson, Rocky would probably have done the same but quicker. I will reverse my prediction to a Marciano win over Johnson KO 4, any other suggestions?
Re: The Worth of Rocky Marciano
Posted: 05 Mar 2018, 10:18
by littlepug
Don't know and don't care, he was the best heavy of his era, thats enough for me
Re: The Worth of Rocky Marciano
Posted: 05 Mar 2018, 13:19
by BrocktonBlockbuster49
Kalan wrote: ↑03 Mar 2018, 03:19
He’d have a fair shot at beating Sullivan, Corbett, Fitzsimmons, Hart, Burns, Willard, Sharkey, Carnera, Baer, and Walcott… Sullivan didn’t fight enough Queensberry Rules fights to be competitive with hardly anyone… Corbett didn’t actually fight enough fights either… Bob Fitz fought a lot, but was too small… A lot of the rest I mentioned were poorly skilled, so Rocky had a fair chance to beat them -- starting with Willard.
I don’t see Rocky beating most of them… Not even Patterson, Norton, Schmeling, Charles, and Frazier...Charles was very small, but he was a great boxer at his best and couldn’t beat anybody at his worst.. I think he was suffering from early inroads of ALS for many years before he was finally diagnosed with the killer disease.. Charles beat Walcott handily the first 2 times they fought... Charles beat many good fighters before 1951 when he was looking really sharp and masterful.
Your logic is way off...
Charles was diagnosed with ASL in 1965...it would have been impossible for him to have early stages of disease back in 1951. It doesn't work like that
Secondly,
The time span between the 2nd Charles Walcott fight and the 3rd one was only a few months...so you're point of Charles hitting this sudden decline in a few months makes no sense. Walcott cleaned Charles clock in the third fight, that's why he lost. Oh, and watch the second fight again...Charles was hurt badly 3 or 4 times in the fight..hardly a dominating victory like you claim. Don't forget Walcott was getting old himself between fights at age 37-38 when the 3rd and 4th fights took place
As for Patterson and Norton beating Marciano...that's funny. Patterson hit the floor more times than my broomstick. He often got intimidated when out in the ring with big punchers...no doubt about it Marciano would have broke pattersons will. Patterson had fast hands and some power sure, but you need more than that to take the 0 from a prime Rocky Marciano. Also Nortons style always got himself knocked out by big punchers..Marciano would have knocked him out with one of his patented right hands.
You are understating Marciano. He was one of the rings ultimate animals. He was exceptionally strong, incredibly mentally tough, a great puncher and finisher, unorthodox movements in his crouch made him tougher to hit cleanly than he looked, iron chin, and incredibly high workrate,
Your picks aren't all bad... Marciano beats Tommy Burns... That one's good.
I sorry I am going to rethink all my picks right now, just give me a moment, (except the Burns one of course). You are right I probably did get he Johnson fight wrong, The way Willard was able to land so many clean shots leading to his KO over Johnson, Rocky would probably have done the same but quicker. I will reverse my prediction to a Marciano win over Johnson KO 4, any other suggestions?
HAW HAW FUNN NEEEEEEEEE!!!! I think you know what would have happened to Rocky if he faced Tyson for instance. Tyson doesn't take 9 rounds to get Don Cockell out if LHW Jimmy Slade can smash Cockell in 4 rounds...
Charles was diagnosed with ASL in 1965...it would have been impossible for him to have early stages of disease back in 1951. It doesn't work like that
Secondly,
The time span between the 2nd Charles Walcott fight and the 3rd one was only a few months...so you're point of Charles hitting this sudden decline in a few months makes no sense. Walcott cleaned Charles clock in the third fight, that's why he lost. Oh, and watch the second fight again...Charles was hurt badly 3 or 4 times in the fight..hardly a dominating victory like you claim. Don't forget Walcott was getting old himself between fights at age 37-38 when the 3rd and 4th fights took place
As for Patterson and Norton beating Marciano...that's funny. Patterson hit the floor more times than my broomstick. He often got intimidated when out in the ring with big punchers...no doubt about it Marciano would have broke pattersons will. Patterson had fast hands and some power sure, but you need more than that to take the 0 from a prime Rocky Marciano. Also Nortons style always got himself knocked out by big punchers..Marciano would have knocked him out with one of his patented right hands.
You are understating Marciano. He was one of the rings ultimate animals. He was exceptionally strong, incredibly mentally tough, a great puncher and finisher, unorthodox movements in his crouch made him tougher to hit cleanly than he looked, iron chin, and incredibly high workrate,
You know nothing about medical science... ALS is a creeping nerve disease... ALS can be sicken you for 20 years or more before it's diagnosed... It can be a super slow creeper... People, don't know what's wrong with them for years... How long did Hawking have ALS?? It's funny that Charles beat a younger Walcott, but couldn't beat an aged Walcott...
It's also funny that a prime Charles beat Archie Moore 3 out of 3 and knocked him out... And Moore beat Light Heavyweight Harold Johnson 4 out of 5 and knocked him out... But a 31 year old Charles could't beat Harold Johnson??? Or the slow Nino Valdes in 1953??? That's weird.. Charles was so good at his peak that it had to be ALS.. He declined in his late 20's and early 30's.. He died young from ALS.. It can be working silently in your body for many years before it's diagnosed.. Why was Charles so bad so young??? Because ALS sometimes takes decades to do it's dirty work.
Patterson wiped out Moore much faster than Rocky WITHOUT hitting the deck... How many times was Patterson down through his Moore fight when Floyd won the Heavyweight TItle??? He was down fewer times than Rocky at that point.. He didn't get knocked down until he faced guys who were much bigger and stronger than Rocky... Rocky got bounced by Light Heavyweight Moore who Patterson walked right through... Patterson was 3 X as skillful and fast.. Rocky was 5'10" X 184 and super easy to hit.. He walked into you like Frazier.. Frazier never hit the deck until he faced bigger contenders than Rocky fought.. Rocky never fought anybody with Patterson's combination of youth, speed, power, and skills.
Norton got knocked out by bigger, taller, men than Rocky - with a longer reaches... Jerry Quarry was too small for Norton... Ron Stander was too short for him... Boone Kirkman was too crude and too small for him... Rocky was too teenie weenie for Norton... Norton was so much bigger and stronger that Goldman or Weill would never make that fight.
Goldman wouldn't match Rocky with Nino Valdes after NV beat Charles... Norton would crush Valdes like Liston did.
Re: The Worth of Rocky Marciano
Posted: 05 Mar 2018, 21:22
by Kalan
Beginning in 1952, when Roland LaStarza lost to Light Heavyweight Rocky Jones -- who was 14-9-2 -- LaStarza lost 7 of his last 13 fights, Including his Title Fight with Rocky Marciano... The light hitter weighed 184 for Rocky and went 11 rounds.
LaStarza quit Boxing after he lost to Monroe Ratliff.... Ratliff lost 11 of his last 12 fights... His lone victory during that stretch was over Roland LaStarza -- after suffering 6 straight losses.
Re: The Worth of Rocky Marciano
Posted: 06 Mar 2018, 01:18
by ClivePatrickLyons
Not sure how many Rocky beats but he must have been P4P One of the hardest puncher's of all time
Re: The Worth of Rocky Marciano
Posted: 06 Mar 2018, 02:29
by Kalan
No he wasn't.... Or he would have FLATTENED washed up Light Heavyweights like Moore, Charles, and Cockell inside of a round or two... That's the way it's done if you're a genuine Heavyweight Hitter.
ATG Heavyweight Hitters get rid of Light Heavyweights -- almost like stepping on a roach.
When Tyson fought undefeated Micheal Spinks it was SPLATT!!! .... When Frazier fought ATG Bob Foster it was SPLATT!!!
When Liston fought little Patterson it was SPLATT!!! .... When Jack Johnson wanted Stanley Ketchel out it was SPLATT!!!
Marciano was so small that when he hit a Light Heavyweight it was: Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit..... Hit ...... Then the bell would ring ending the 8th round...
Rocky wasn't getting these little guys out... Not a whole lot was happening.
Re: The Worth of Rocky Marciano
Posted: 06 Mar 2018, 06:50
by Matt the Master
Kalan wrote: ↑06 Mar 2018, 02:29
No he wasn't.... Or he would have FLATTENED washed up Light Heavyweights like Moore, Charles, and Cockell inside of a round or two... That's the way it's done if you're a genuine Heavyweight Hitter.
ATG Heavyweight Hitters get rid of Light Heavyweights -- almost like stepping on a roach.
When Tyson fought undefeated Micheal Spinks it was SPLATT!!! .... When Frazier fought ATG Bob Foster it was SPLATT!!!
When Liston fought little Patterson it was SPLATT!!! .... When Jack Johnson wanted Stanley Ketchel out it was SPLATT!!!
Marciano was so small that when he hit a Light Heavyweight it was: Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit..... Hit ...... Then the bell would ring ending the 8th round...
Rocky wasn't getting these little guys out... Not a whole lot was happening.
Stanley Ketchel isn't really a good example though, he was a natural middleweight before he fought Johnson, something I always found hilarious was the fact that during the run up to the fight, his backers had him wear an ultra padded jacket to give him the appearance of being filled out, and they made shoes for him that subtlely raised his height by about 3 inches He was a game bastard though, and used to work himself up into a frenzy by psyching himself up by imagining that his opponent had insulted his mother, he would then come out at the bell snarling like a crazed animal and look straight for the ko, he met his demise only a few years later after being fatally shot at a remote farmhouse.
Re: The Worth of Rocky Marciano
Posted: 06 Mar 2018, 07:36
by Matt the Master
Kalan wrote: ↑06 Mar 2018, 02:29
No he wasn't.... Or he would have FLATTENED washed up Light Heavyweights like Moore, Charles, and Cockell inside of a round or two... That's the way it's done if you're a genuine Heavyweight Hitter.
ATG Heavyweight Hitters get rid of Light Heavyweights -- almost like stepping on a roach.
When Tyson fought undefeated Micheal Spinks it was SPLATT!!! .... When Frazier fought ATG Bob Foster it was SPLATT!!!
When Liston fought little Patterson it was SPLATT!!! .... When Jack Johnson wanted Stanley Ketchel out it was SPLATT!!!
Marciano was so small that when he hit a Light Heavyweight it was: Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit..... Hit ...... Then the bell would ring ending the 8th round...
Rocky wasn't getting these little guys out... Not a whole lot was happening.
that'sanley Ketchel isn't really a good example though, he was a natural middleweight before he fought Johnson, something I always found hilarious was the fact that during the run up to the fight, his backers had him wear an ultra padded jacket to give him the appearance of being filled out, and they made shoes for him that subtlely raised his height by about 3 inches He was a game bastard though, and used to work himself up into a frenzy by psyching himself up by imagining that his opponent had insulted his mother, he would then come out at the bell snarling like a crazed animal and look straight for the ko, he met his demise only a few years later after being fatally shot at a remote farmhouse.
Re: The Worth of Rocky Marciano
Posted: 06 Mar 2018, 07:59
by Matt the Master
APerno wrote: ↑03 Mar 2018, 21:21Marciano vs Sullivan - Sullivan not skilled enough Marciano vs Corbett - He catches Corbett late just as Jeffries did. Marciano vs Fitzsimmons - Too big for Fitz
Marciano vs Jeffries - not sure
Marciano vs Marvin Hart - no opinion; I don't know enough (anything) about Hart; I do agree he should be listed as one of the lineal champs. Marciano vs Tommy Burns - Too strong for Burns
Marciano vs Jack Johnson - Out boxed, maybe even outboxed for 25 rounds if you like; the 1910 version of Johnson. Marciano vs Jess Willard - Dempsey-Willard redux.
Marciano vs Dempsey - Best fight on the card; multiple KDs; Dempsey gets up one more time than Marciano.
Marciano vs Tunney - Out boxed but not beaten; Tunney by boring UD Marciano vs Sharkey - Couldn't handle Marciano's power.
Marciano vs Schmeling - Out boxed; 1936 version; you know the guy who showed up for Louis I. Marciano vs Carnera - Carnera's jab and grabbing keeps him off till the later rounds, but in the end 'timber.' Marciano vs Baer - Discipline over talent yet again. Marciano vs Braddock - Braddock will look good until he doesn't; late KO
Marciano vs Louis - 1941 Louis never lets Marciano find his zone; cuts him up. Marciano vs Charles - UD & 8th round KO; I'm ready to bet on this one any takers? Marciano vs Walcott - 13th round KO; 1st round KO Marciano vs Patterson - 1952 Marciano behind on all score cards pulls a rabbit out his hat; late KO; Walcott I redux.
Marciano vs Liston - Too much jab; better boxer and can match Marciano's strength.
Marciano vs Ali - Ali by UD; Like Tunney, Ali wins but never beats the guy. Marciano vs Frazier - Second best fight on the card; Marciano by late KO.
Marciano vs Foreman - Foreman-Frazier redux Marciano vs Norton - Easier fight than you might think; Marciano by early KO
Marciano vs Holmes -Out jabbed; out boxed over 15 rounds; more likely to give Marciano a beating than Ali.
Marciano vs Tyson - Third best match-up on the card; pick-em; maybe who lands first.
Marciano vs Holyfield - Holyfield may be too strong; the 'juice' would be the difference; unjuiced Holyfield doesn't last three rounds.
Marciano vs Lewis - Lewis too big; maybe a KO
Marciano vs The Klitschko's - Pick-em; Demspey-Willard redux maybe; maybe a very boring 15 round UD for the Russians; but I do mean a really boring; 15 rounds of grabbing; Bone Crusher Smith-Tyson redux.
Marciano vs Fury - no opinion; never saw Fury fight.
Why no Joshua? - If Joshua has a chin he wins; too big for Marciano; jury still out on Anthony's chin.
No Joshua because that is a list 'based' on lineal champions, neither of the Klitschko brothers were ever linear champion, the last linear champ was Tyson Fury and before him it was Lennox Lewis, Fury took 3 of the 4 recognised titles from Wladimir Klitschko and became a linear champion, and yet Klitschko wasn't recognised as such, strange.
Re: The Worth of Rocky Marciano
Posted: 06 Mar 2018, 08:23
by APerno
Kalan wrote: ↑06 Mar 2018, 02:29
No he wasn't.... Or he would have FLATTENED washed up Light Heavyweights like Moore, Charles, and Cockell inside of a round or two... That's the way it's done if you're a genuine Heavyweight Hitter.
ATG Heavyweight Hitters get rid of Light Heavyweights -- almost like stepping on a roach.
When Tyson fought undefeated Micheal Spinks it was SPLATT!!! .... When Frazier fought ATG Bob Foster it was SPLATT!!!
When Liston fought little Patterson it was SPLATT!!! .... When Jack Johnson wanted Stanley Ketchel out it was SPLATT!!!
Marciano was so small that when he hit a Light Heavyweight it was: Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit... Hit... Hit... Hit.. Hit..... Hit ...... Then the bell would ring ending the 8th round...
Rocky wasn't getting these little guys out... Not a whole lot was happening.
Oh yea, what about the 9th round? - (Did you copy and paste or type all those out?)
Re: The Worth of Rocky Marciano
Posted: 06 Mar 2018, 10:38
by Crease
Kalan wrote: ↑05 Mar 2018, 09:02You've got to be kidding... Martin was an undefeated Heavyweight Champion..
Charles Martin is a poor standard for any Heavyweight Champion of any era. The only reason that he won a vacant Heavyweight title is because his opponent - Vyachsev Glaskov had suffered an accidental injury to his knee. And thus, the strap had to go to someone. I would also point out that Glaskov was the mandatory challenger going in to this bout as Martin was seen as the cannon fodder for him.
Kalan wrote: ↑05 Mar 2018, 09:02There wasn't a single viable and youthful Heavyweight with any size, power and skill to challenge Marciano...
Well, I could rhyme off a list of top Heavyweight challengers for you if you like, just because they never held the World Heavyweight title doesn't make them useless altogether... Bob Baker, Bob Satterfield, Tommy Hurriance Jackson to name but a few off the top of my head.
Re: The Worth of Rocky Marciano
Posted: 06 Mar 2018, 10:41
by Crease
Kalan wrote: ↑05 Mar 2018, 05:51The 3rd Title Challenger Rocky fought went the distance with him... He was a very small, washed up guy who'd been knocked out a couple times before.
And is one of the top 10 P4P fighters of all time. Let's have it right.
If you truly wanted to compare AJ's run with The Rock's, you would need to be including the likes of top fighters like Alexander Povetkin, Luis Ortiz & Kubrat Pulev in there.
Are you sure?
Marciano's 7 title fights.
16 times beaten 38 year old Joe walcott
17 times beaten 39 year old Joe walcott
3 times beaten Roland La Starza
10 times beaten Ezzard Charles
11 times beaten Ezzard Charles
11 times beaten Don Cockell ( one of those defeats to former Middleweight Randy Turpin )
19 times beaten 39 year old Archie Moore
I'm no particular fan of Joshua, but you are way off the mark claiming he would have to have fought the guys you mention to compete with the bunch of has beens and never were in the first place that Marciano's title record consists of.
Great point. Only 5 of Marciano's 7 title fights were against (legit, no question about it) Hall of Famers. Talk about fighting stiffs.
Re: The Worth of Rocky Marciano
Posted: 06 Mar 2018, 12:50
by Kalan
Brother.... It doesn't take a huge talent to be a freaking HOFer....
Ingemar Johansson was a Hall of Famer.... How many World Title Fights did Ingo win and over who??? What did he do in the rematch except catch the hardest punch Patterson ever threw??? .... Such accomplishment is underwhelming. Good luck in the rubber match Ingo... You can say the same thing about 100 HOFers who had very poor skills.
And if you beat HOFers who are 1 step from the grave it's no big deal... If Marciano came up in this era he'd be a Light Heavyweight... Rocky could easily dry out 9 pounds and make 175... He fought at 180 a few times...
How long would super chinny Don Cockell last with Dmitry Bivol or Sergei Kovalev??? .... 2 minutes tops??? Jimmy Slade slaughtered Cockell in 4 rounds... Slade wasn't a good Light Heavyweight... He had a 17% KO ratio and went 37-23 and 6.
I think you know what would have happened to Rocky if he faced Tyson for instance. Tyson doesn't take 9 rounds to get Don Cockell out if LHW Jimmy Slade can smash Cockell in 4 rounds... 
He was a game bastard though, and used to work himself up into a frenzy by psyching himself up by imagining that his opponent had insulted his mother, he would then come out at the bell snarling like a crazed animal and look straight for the ko, he met his demise only a few years later after being fatally shot at a remote farmhouse.