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Wilder is a very cautious heavyweight champ
Posted: 04 Mar 2018, 23:31
by lazboy
Credit to wilder he has heart, he has great power, he wins and he’ll get his big money payday with AJ. Although I’m hearing he’s an exciting fighter. Why? Because he KOs everyone? What about the rounds preceding the KO? Agaisnt Ortiz he demonstrated a pawing ineffectual jab. Whilst the counter puncher Ortiz brought the fight. Wilder skirted around the outside unwilling to throw losing rd after rd until his man visibly tired. Only few of his rarely thrown punches landed clean. At least with someone Klitschko you could appreciate a commanding jab and he was derided for being too cautious/boring. Who’s been more cautious than Wilder as a Heavyweight champ?
Re: Wilder is a very cautious heavyweight champ
Posted: 04 Mar 2018, 23:32
by gilgamesh
You answered your own question with "Why? Because he KO's everyone?"
Yeah that's why he's exciting. People love knockouts.
Who's been more cautious than Wilder as Heavyweight Champ?
...Jess Willard took it pretty easy for quite a few years after winning the title. Jack Dempsey took a 3 year hiatus in the middle of his title reign.
You could argue they were more cautious than him.
Re: Wilder is a very cautious heavyweight champ
Posted: 04 Mar 2018, 23:34
by lazboy
gilgamesh wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 23:32
You answered your own question with "Why? Because he KO's everyone"
Yeah that's why he's exciting. People love knockouts.
Why! Sit through 30 mins of non action but there’s a ko at the end so it’s ok? Then Klitschko was exciting.
Re: Wilder is a very cautious heavyweight champ
Posted: 04 Mar 2018, 23:36
by gilgamesh
lazboy wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 23:34
gilgamesh wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 23:32
You answered your own question with "Why? Because he KO's everyone"
Yeah that's why he's exciting. People love knockouts.
Why! Sit through 30 mins of non action but there’s a ko at the end so it’s ok? Then Klitschkos was exciting.
I liked the Klitschko's.
There was a constant tension throughout the fight last night. You could feel it. Heavyweights can't just run in there and trade shots because when they land shots legs buckle and people go down as you saw...so naturally they have to be careful in their approach, and therein lies the tension.
If the fight bored you then you have unrealistic expectations is all I can say. I enjoyed every minute of it myself.
Re: Wilder is a very cautious heavyweight champ
Posted: 04 Mar 2018, 23:42
by lazboy
gilgamesh wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 23:36
lazboy wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 23:34
gilgamesh wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 23:32
You answered your own question with "Why? Because he KO's everyone"
Yeah that's why he's exciting. People love knockouts.
Why! Sit through 30 mins of non action but there’s a ko at the end so it’s ok? Then Klitschkos was exciting.
I liked the Klitschko's.
There was a constant tension throughout the fight last night. You could feel it. Heavyweights can't just run in there and trade shots because when they land shots legs buckle and people go down as you saw...so naturally they have to be careful in their approach, and therein lies the tension.
If the fight bored you then you have unrealistic expectations is all I can say. I enjoyed every minute of it myself.
Never said I thought the fight was boring, but Ortiz brought it, not wilder. Wilder was very cautious. Deny it if you can. Those first three rounds were horrendous whereby the crowd began to boo. I am well aware of the uniqueness of the heavyweight division but thank you for the information.
Re: Wilder is a very cautious heavyweight champ
Posted: 05 Mar 2018, 01:31
by Impractical Poster
What makes it exciting is the anticipation of knowing the knockout could come at any secind. However, I wouldn't sit through the entire fight again. I'd just ff to the exciting parts.
When Wilder is being outskilled, which we have seen a couple times, he tends to be cautious. But cautiousness goes out the window once he's got his opponent hurt. In fact, I can't think of a more wreckless fighter in boxing when it comes to closing a show.
Re: Wilder is a very cautious heavyweight champ
Posted: 05 Mar 2018, 02:29
by MrGuy
lazboy wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 23:31
Credit to wilder he has heart, he has great power, he wins and he’ll get his big money payday with AJ. Although I’m hearing he’s an exciting fighter. Why? Because he KOs everyone? What about the rounds preceding the KO? Agaisnt Ortiz he demonstrated a pawing ineffectual jab. Whilst the counter puncher Ortiz brought the fight. Wilder skirted around the outside unwilling to throw losing rd after rd until his man visibly tired. Only few of his rarely thrown punches landed clean. At least with someone Klitschko you could appreciate a commanding jab and he was derided for being too cautious/boring. Who’s been more cautious than Wilder as a Heavyweight champ?
Wlad easily. That jab didnt make up for clinching 2/3 of every round.
Re: Wilder is a very cautious heavyweight champ
Posted: 05 Mar 2018, 02:37
by MrGuy
MrGuy wrote: ↑05 Mar 2018, 02:29
lazboy wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 23:31
Credit to wilder he has heart, he has great power, he wins and he’ll get his big money payday with AJ. Although I’m hearing he’s an exciting fighter. Why? Because he KOs everyone? What about the rounds preceding the KO? Agaisnt Ortiz he demonstrated a pawing ineffectual jab. Whilst the counter puncher Ortiz brought the fight. Wilder skirted around the outside unwilling to throw losing rd after rd until his man visibly tired. Only few of his rarely thrown punches landed clean. At least with someone Klitschko you could appreciate a commanding jab and he was derided for being too cautious/boring. Who’s been more cautious than Wilder as a Heavyweight champ?
Wlad easily. That jab didnt make up for clinching 2/3 of every round. Wilder had half an unexciting fight. Not comparable to Wlads clinchfests.
Re: Wilder is a very cautious heavyweight champ
Posted: 05 Mar 2018, 03:59
by Best Coast
MrGuy wrote: ↑05 Mar 2018, 02:29
lazboy wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 23:31
Credit to wilder he has heart, he has great power, he wins and he’ll get his big money payday with AJ. Although I’m hearing he’s an exciting fighter. Why? Because he KOs everyone? What about the rounds preceding the KO? Agaisnt Ortiz he demonstrated a pawing ineffectual jab. Whilst the counter puncher Ortiz brought the fight. Wilder skirted around the outside unwilling to throw losing rd after rd until his man visibly tired. Only few of his rarely thrown punches landed clean. At least with someone Klitschko you could appreciate a commanding jab and he was derided for being too cautious/boring. Who’s been more cautious than Wilder as a Heavyweight champ?
Wlad easily. That jab didnt make up for clinching 2/3 of every round.
Great point. In my opinion, the incredible action of rounds 7 & 10 of Wilder-Ortiz
more than made up for the lack of action in the other 8 rounds!! A ferocious ending is what fans are looking for and they will tolerate a lot if it eventually happens.
Re: Wilder is a very cautious heavyweight champ
Posted: 05 Mar 2018, 05:13
by Kalan
lazboy wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 23:34
gilgamesh wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 23:32
You answered your own question with "Why? Because he KO's everyone"
Yeah that's why he's exciting. People love knockouts.
Why! Sit through 30 mins of non action but there’s a ko at the end so it’s ok? Then Klitschko was exciting.
This was a great fight... You had 2 guys who could end a fight with one punch... It was gripping... It's like you're hunting a tiger in the jungle for an hour or 2... He could spring out at you any second so you're on edge... It's the anticipation and drama... If you didn't think the 7th round was exciting you're dead... Nothing excites you.
Re: Wilder is a very cautious heavyweight champ
Posted: 05 Mar 2018, 05:20
by Kalan
MrGuy wrote: ↑05 Mar 2018, 02:29
lazboy wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 23:31
Credit to wilder he has heart, he has great power, he wins and he’ll get his big money payday with AJ. Although I’m hearing he’s an exciting fighter. Why? Because he KOs everyone? What about the rounds preceding the KO? Agaisnt Ortiz he demonstrated a pawing ineffectual jab. Whilst the counter puncher Ortiz brought the fight. Wilder skirted around the outside unwilling to throw losing rd after rd until his man visibly tired. Only few of his rarely thrown punches landed clean. At least with someone Klitschko you could appreciate a commanding jab and he was derided for being too cautious/boring. Who’s been more cautious than Wilder as a Heavyweight champ?
Wlad easily. That jab didnt make up for clinching 2/3 of every round.
He never clinched for 2/3rds of a round... Ali holds the record for clinching 20 times in the 1st round of Foreman-Ali and he didn't nail people to the canvas like Wladimir, Wilder, and Joshua.
Re: Wilder is a very cautious heavyweight champ
Posted: 05 Mar 2018, 14:15
by gilgamesh
lazboy wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 23:42
gilgamesh wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 23:36
lazboy wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 23:34
Why! Sit through 30 mins of non action but there’s a ko at the end so it’s ok? Then Klitschkos was exciting.
I liked the Klitschko's.
There was a constant tension throughout the fight last night. You could feel it. Heavyweights can't just run in there and trade shots because when they land shots legs buckle and people go down as you saw...so naturally they have to be careful in their approach, and therein lies the tension.
If the fight bored you then you have unrealistic expectations is all I can say. I enjoyed every minute of it myself.
Never said I thought the fight was boring, but Ortiz brought it, not wilder. Wilder was very cautious. Deny it if you can. Those first three rounds were horrendous whereby the crowd began to boo. I am well aware of the uniqueness of the heavyweight division but thank you for the information.
Wilder had no choice but to be cautious. Ortiz was the more skilled of the two. If Wilder had just come out attacking willy nilly he'd have been KO'ed early. He fought the fight he needed to.
Re: Wilder is a very cautious heavyweight champ
Posted: 05 Mar 2018, 14:18
by jamamb
sup mrguy
Re: Wilder is a very cautious heavyweight champ
Posted: 05 Mar 2018, 14:28
by jamamb
well if its just about the stoppage or kds wlad usually got it in the end, but his fights were like watching a buffering stream that starts and stops over and over. no flow due to constant holding
Re: Wilder is a very cautious heavyweight champ
Posted: 05 Mar 2018, 14:37
by marvelous marv
Wilder is a very different fighter when trying to figure out southpaws. Did you watch his previous fight where he started windmilling from the opening bell?
Re: Wilder is a very cautious heavyweight champ
Posted: 05 Mar 2018, 14:49
by Syntax Error
lazboy wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 23:34
gilgamesh wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 23:32
You answered your own question with "Why? Because he KO's everyone"
Yeah that's why he's exciting. People love knockouts.
Why! Sit through 30 mins of non action but there’s a ko at the end so it’s ok? Then Klitschko was exciting.
It doesn't matter how hard a fighter hits, he will never KO every single opponent with one single shot when he feels like it.
Ortiz was by some distance the best fighter Wilder had faced.
Ortiz was the bogeyman man of the division; someone often talked up as the number 1 guy in the division, so it was perfectly acceptable for Wilder to treat the guy with respect.
Ortiz is a good boxer too; better than Wilder, so Deontay was always going to look overly cautious whilst trying to figure out Luis and possibly wait for him to tire.
Re: Wilder is a very cautious heavyweight champ
Posted: 05 Mar 2018, 15:08
by man
gilgamesh wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 23:32
You answered your own question with "Why? Because he KO's everyone?"
Yeah that's why he's exciting. People love knockouts.
Who's been more cautious than Wilder as Heavyweight Champ?
...Jess Willard took it pretty easy for quite a few years after winning the title. Jack Dempsey took a 3 year hiatus in the middle of his title reign.
You could argue they were more cautious than him.
diggin' back a hundred years doesn't
make the argument terribly convincing.
Re: Wilder is a very cautious heavyweight champ
Posted: 05 Mar 2018, 15:12
by gilgamesh
man wrote: ↑05 Mar 2018, 15:08
gilgamesh wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 23:32
You answered your own question with "Why? Because he KO's everyone?"
Yeah that's why he's exciting. People love knockouts.
Who's been more cautious than Wilder as Heavyweight Champ?
...Jess Willard took it pretty easy for quite a few years after winning the title. Jack Dempsey took a 3 year hiatus in the middle of his title reign.
You could argue they were more cautious than him.
diggin' back a hundred years doesn't
make the argument terribly convincing.
I'm no fan of Wilder, and Wilder's title defenses prior to Ortiz were definitely of the particularly easy variety. Ortiz was his first Top 10 opponent in his entire title reign so I'm not saying he hasn't been handled very cautiously. But if you're gonna say "He's the most cautious there's ever been"...well forever is a long time, and 100 years ago is a part of "Ever been" so it's relevant to the conversation.
Re: Wilder is a very cautious heavyweight champ
Posted: 05 Mar 2018, 16:07
by man
gilgamesh wrote: ↑05 Mar 2018, 15:12
man wrote: ↑05 Mar 2018, 15:08
diggin' back a hundred years doesn't
make the argument terribly convincing.
I'm no fan of Wilder, and Wilder's title defenses prior to Ortiz were definitely of the particularly easy variety. Ortiz was his first Top 10 opponent in his entire title reign so I'm not saying he hasn't been handled very cautiously. But if you're gonna say "He's the most cautious there's ever been"...well forever is a long time, and 100 years ago is a part of "Ever been" so it's relevant to the conversation.
i am well aware that hundred years is within
the realm of eternity, yet ... still ... you know ...
Re: Wilder is a very cautious heavyweight champ
Posted: 05 Mar 2018, 16:08
by gilgamesh
I don't think anybody is calling Wilder one of the all time great Heavyweights or anything yet, but he's certainly got people's attention now as one of the key Heavyweights of the moment, and the Ortiz win added a lot of historical credibility to his reign which up to that point had been fairly mediocre.
Re: Wilder is a very cautious heavyweight champ
Posted: 05 Mar 2018, 18:08
by lazboy
Fair points by most. Just saw a real reluctance to throw. But in the end he got the job done. Well done. Smart.
Re: Wilder is a very cautious heavyweight champ
Posted: 05 Mar 2018, 18:31
by ewenhay
lazboy wrote: ↑05 Mar 2018, 18:08
Fair points by most. Just saw a real reluctance to throw. But in the end he got the job done. Well done. Smart.
I think you were originally a bit harsh. As far as recent heavyweight fights go this one was pretty action packed and could have went either way.
Hats off to Wilder. As crude as he looks sometimes he survived a bit of trouble and stopped a pretty tough Ortiz so he showed he has plenty of heart. He went up in my estimation. I'd easily watch a rematch.
Re: Wilder is a very cautious heavyweight champ
Posted: 06 Mar 2018, 04:21
by MrGuy
Kalan wrote: ↑05 Mar 2018, 05:20
MrGuy wrote: ↑05 Mar 2018, 02:29
lazboy wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018, 23:31
Credit to wilder he has heart, he has great power, he wins and he’ll get his big money payday with AJ. Although I’m hearing he’s an exciting fighter. Why? Because he KOs everyone? What about the rounds preceding the KO? Agaisnt Ortiz he demonstrated a pawing ineffectual jab. Whilst the counter puncher Ortiz brought the fight. Wilder skirted around the outside unwilling to throw losing rd after rd until his man visibly tired. Only few of his rarely thrown punches landed clean. At least with someone Klitschko you could appreciate a commanding jab and he was derided for being too cautious/boring. Who’s been more cautious than Wilder as a Heavyweight champ?
Wlad easily. That jab didnt make up for clinching 2/3 of every round.
He never clinched for 2/3rds of a round... Ali holds the record for clinching 20 times in the 1st round of Foreman-Ali and he didn't nail people to the canvas like Wladimir, Wilder, and Joshua.
Wlad initiated over 130 against Povetkin. As noted older Ali did clinch to much. Not the younger version. As soon as Steward realized Wlad (still in his twenties) couldnt take a punch, he rode his opponents around the ring the rest of his career. While Ali quickly grabbed and spun away, Dr. Klinchko held on for dear life when not hurt to keep his foes from even throwing.
Re: Wilder is a very cautious heavyweight champ
Posted: 06 Mar 2018, 04:51
by tigermoth87
His flaws make him exciting. The fight Vs shitty Szpilka was better than it should have been because Wilder is such a flawed fighter even a mediocre guy like Szpilka can have success against him.
I like Wilder, he's good for the division.