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Emile Griffith?
Posted: 09 Mar 2018, 14:07
by NYDominican
Emile Griffith's professional boxing career.
1. What do you think Emile's all time legacy should be?
2. Is Griffith underrated?
3. Should Emile Griffith be considered among some of the all time greats?
Please explain.
Re: Emile Griffith?
Posted: 09 Mar 2018, 14:11
by gilgamesh
1. What it is
2. No
3. He's ranked about right at the moment
A very good Welterweight/Middleweight who could hold his own with most anybody, but probably would come up short against the very best that ever competed in those weight classes which is not to say he's not a truly fantastic talent in his own right, but he's not quite in the same league with the very best that ever did it in those weight classes I don't think. That being said he'd beat a great deal of fighters in his weight range from past or future eras, and I can't imagine anybody that's come along would have an easy time with him unless maybe they got him cold early like I'm assuming "Hurricane" Carter must've.
Re: Emile Griffith?
Posted: 09 Mar 2018, 14:59
by ewenhay
I consider him a welterweight great. Good at middleweight but not ATG worthy.
Re: Emile Griffith?
Posted: 09 Mar 2018, 21:41
by Kalan
Beat ATG Middleweight and Light Heavyweight Champion Dick Tiger twice... Beat Nino Benvenuti... Beat Luis Rodriguez, Benny Paret, Brian Curis, Denny Moyer, Ralph Dupas, Jorge Fernandez, Florentino Fernandez, Gaspar Ortega, Joey Archer, Willie Stevenson, and a couple dozen guys who we saw on "Friday Night Fights" in the 50's and 60's.
Obviously an ATG Welterweight and Middleweight Champion.... A bit floro for me....but that's another story.
Re: Emile Griffith?
Posted: 10 Mar 2018, 05:38
by scorpio83
ewenhay wrote: ↑09 Mar 2018, 14:59
I consider him a welterweight great. Good at middleweight but not ATG worthy.
I agree with ewenhay on this one as Emile Griffith is one of the all-time great welterweights, but at middleweight maybe a little outside the top 10 all-time.
Re: Emile Griffith?
Posted: 10 Mar 2018, 15:53
by elmersalsa
NYDominican wrote: ↑09 Mar 2018, 14:07
Emile Griffith's professional boxing career.
1. What do you think Emile's all time legacy should be?
2. Is Griffith underrated?
3. Should Emile Griffith be considered among some of the all time greats?
Please explain.
I have him ranked at #22 pound per pound in the 20th century and #24 all time pound per pound because of his longevity and great body of work. He wasn't a dominant champion, but, a very resilient one. He was always in the top ranks whether it was welterweight or middleweight rankings. Fought the very best fighters of his era and they were many: Benny "Kid" Paret, Florentino Fernandez, Gaspar "El Indio" Ortega, Luis Manuel Rodriguez, Nino Benvenutti, Dick Tiger, Denny Moyer, Don Fullmer, Isaac Logart, and Joey Archer among others.
His legacy will be that he will always be remembered for the tragically third Paret fight in '62.
I got him ranked at #4 at welterweight all time great rankings behind Kid Gavilan, Henry Armstrong and Sugar Ray Robinson. Why? He was a three-time welterweight world champion, and had the longevity at that weight class. He also beat the very top welters of his era. At middleweight, I don't consider him much of a force. He is not a top 10 middleweight ATG, but in the top 15 is about right.
He is a TRUE ALL TIME POUND PER POUND GREAT. Anyone that thinks different gotta be crazy, biased or wicked minded.
Re: Emile Griffith?
Posted: 10 Mar 2018, 17:58
by Kalan
Ray Robinson and 2 guys he beat are the 3 all time greatest Welterweights??? Uh huh....
Re: Emile Griffith?
Posted: 11 Mar 2018, 15:57
by elmersalsa
Kalan wrote: ↑10 Mar 2018, 17:58
Ray Robinson and 2 guys he beat are the 3 all time greatest Welterweights??? Uh huh....
And why not? Have you seen their records at welterweight?
Re: Emile Griffith?
Posted: 11 Mar 2018, 17:55
by Kalan
I've watched them.... They were hittable and beatable... They suffered quite a few losses and their skills were lacking.
Robinson was decked hard by a loaded swing from 2nd rater Tommy Bell in his FIRST Welterweight Title Fight ... It was for a vacant title and Bell was picked because he had 10 losses and Robinson had beaten him easily before..
Getting decked like that doesn't happen to Spence or Crawford.
Maybe that's why they're undefeated...
Re: Emile Griffith?
Posted: 11 Mar 2018, 18:59
by ClivePatrickLyons
Re: Emile Griffith?
Posted: 11 Mar 2018, 20:38
by Kalan
I see you're more engaged than usual... Congrats
Re: Emile Griffith?
Posted: 17 Mar 2018, 15:43
by oogiebe
You mean it's not just me!!???? I had a similar response several days ago...it's like the teacher in Charlie Brown..."Wah wah wah wah." My Dad used to say about an acquaintance of his "ask him what time it is and he'll tell you how to build a watch."
Re: Emile Griffith?
Posted: 17 Mar 2018, 15:52
by oogiebe
NYDominican wrote: ↑09 Mar 2018, 14:07
Emile Griffith's professional boxing career.
My answers in
bold
1. What do you think Emile's all time legacy should be?
He was a great fighter who unfortunately lost his killer instinct after the Paret fight. He didn't score another KO until the fifth fight after. NO doubt that fight impacted him a lot.
2. Is Griffith underrated?
He'll always be. Seems the 60's were a kind of lost period for many great fighters.
3. Should Emile Griffith be considered among some of the all time greats?
He should be...at his best he was incredibly difficult to beat. Please don't tell me about Ruben Carter, many have lost such a fight. He also fought too long but still gave fits to Napoles; Benvenuti ; and Monzon..
Please explain.
the guy fought everyone and if not for the Paret fight, would have been easily considered an ATG. (not sure if that caveat counts. Intriguing question.
Re: Emile Griffith?
Posted: 18 Mar 2018, 10:33
by SenorPipino
Kalan wrote: ↑11 Mar 2018, 17:55
I've watched them.... They were hittable and beatable... They suffered quite a few losses and their skills were lacking.
Robinson was decked hard by a loaded swing from 2nd rater Tommy Bell in his FIRST Welterweight Title Fight ... It was for a vacant title and Bell was picked because he had 10 losses and Robinson had beaten him easily before..
Getting decked like that doesn't happen to Spence or Crawford.
Maybe that's why they're undefeated...
Please return after Spence and Crawford have A) fought several hundred fights in over a quarter century like Robinson did, B) defeated a host of multi-generational greats, C) managed to never have been defeated or decked.
Then it might be fair to laud them as Robinson's superiors.
Until then, they might have made decent sparring partners for Robinson, but that's about it.
Re: Emile Griffith?
Posted: 18 Mar 2018, 11:01
by elmersalsa
SenorPipino wrote: ↑18 Mar 2018, 10:33
Kalan wrote: ↑11 Mar 2018, 17:55
I've watched them.... They were hittable and beatable... They suffered quite a few losses and their skills were lacking.
Robinson was decked hard by a loaded swing from 2nd rater Tommy Bell in his FIRST Welterweight Title Fight ... It was for a vacant title and Bell was picked because he had 10 losses and Robinson had beaten him easily before..
Getting decked like that doesn't happen to Spence or Crawford.
Maybe that's why they're undefeated...
Please return after Spence and Crawford have A) fought several hundred fights in over a quarter century like Robinson did, B) defeated a host of multi-generational greats, C) managed to never have been defeated or decked.
Then it might be fair to laud them as Robinson's superiors.
Until then, they might have made decent sparring partners for Robinson, but that's about it.
Re: Emile Griffith?
Posted: 20 Mar 2018, 02:41
by scorpio83
Emile Griffith is one of the all-time greats in his era and fought nearly everyone between welterweight and middleweight.
