BoxRec

Posted: **05 Apr 2018, 16:02**

Some fighters were the excellent ones at their optimal weight divisions. They moved up at heavier division (because of different reasons) and didn't achieve anything similar.

My short list (since 2000) :

Adamek (excellent at CW, no more than average at HW).
Roman Gonzalez
Rigondeaux
Gamboa
Cotto

What do you think ?

Posted: **05 Apr 2018, 16:04**

ValMar wrote: ↑05 Apr 2018, 16:02 Some fighters were the excellent ones at their optimal weight divisions. They moved up at heavier division (because of different reasons) and didn't achieve anything similar.

My short list (since 2000) :

Adamek (excellent at CW, no more than average at HW).
Roman Gonzalez
Rigondeaux
Gamboa
Cotto

What do you think ?

All examples are good except of Cotto. He looked very good beating up Sergio Martinez.

Posted: **05 Apr 2018, 16:09**

Boxing Writer wrote: ↑05 Apr 2018, 16:04
ValMar wrote: ↑05 Apr 2018, 16:02 Some fighters were the excellent ones at their optimal weight divisions. They moved up at heavier division (because of different reasons) and didn't achieve anything similar.

My short list (since 2000) :

Adamek (excellent at CW, no more than average at HW).
Roman Gonzalez
Rigondeaux
Gamboa
Cotto

What do you think ?
All examples are good except of Cotto. He looked very good beating up Sergio Martinez.

As I know, Martinez had some serious problems with his knees.

Posted: **05 Apr 2018, 21:08**

Bob Foster and Wilfredo Gomez. Monoliths at their preferred weight, relatively ordinary above.

Posted: **05 Apr 2018, 21:15**

It's tough to lump Gonzalez in there, in my opinion. First of all, he was equally deadly (increasingly deadly as he gained experience, in fact) from 105 to 112. Secondly, he beat one of the best 115 pounders in his first fight moving up (although it was obvious he wasn't the same), took the new king to the brink and was arguably robbed in his second fight at the weight, and was 30 years old (which typically means a lot more for the tiny guys) when he got his first major loss to the same man, who has since showed just how for real he is.

Posted: **05 Apr 2018, 21:53**

Ricky Hatton at 147.
Oscar De La Hoya at 160.
Robert Guerrero at 147.
Adrian Broner at 147.
Brandon Rios at 147.
Arguably Celestino Caballero at 130, but he was starting to exceed his prime.

Posted: **05 Apr 2018, 21:58**

Lackeos wrote: ↑05 Apr 2018, 21:53 Ricky Hatton at 147.
Oscar De La Hoya at 160.
Robert Guerrero at 147.
Adrian Broner at 147.
Brandon Rios at 147.
Arguably Celestino Caballero at 130, but he was starting to exceed his prime.

By the time DLH was at middle he was on a title run in his 6th weight class. Hard to call that failure.

Posted: **05 Apr 2018, 22:20**

Lets go back before 2010 - the most notable ones, though

Alexis Arguello at light welter
Bob Foster at heavyweight
Luis Rodriguez - who was beating Nino Benevuti until he was cold cocked with one punch, still beat Bennie Briscoe (twice) and KO'd Tony Mundine in a round but never did what he did at welterweight
Jose Napoles at middleweight
Carl Bobo Olson at light heavyweight

To be fair to the above boxers with the exception of Rodriguez, they were up against ATG's in their weight classes, they weren't ordinary fighters.

Posted: **05 Apr 2018, 22:38**

ValMar wrote: ↑05 Apr 2018, 16:02 Some fighters were the excellent ones at their optimal weight divisions. They moved up at heavier division (because of different reasons) and didn't achieve anything similar.

My short list (since 2000) :

Adamek (excellent at CW, no more than average at HW).
Roman Gonzalez
Rigondeaux
Gamboa
Cotto

What do you think ?

He became #1 at SFW after beating Cuadras. That isn't failing.

Posted: **05 Apr 2018, 23:31**

Ricky Hatton never did too hot above 140 even though he did pick up a belt against Collazo, he clearly wasn't the same fighter above 140 pounds.

Posted: **06 Apr 2018, 00:09**

Mexi-Box wrote: ↑05 Apr 2018, 22:38
ValMar wrote: ↑05 Apr 2018, 16:02 Some fighters were the excellent ones at their optimal weight divisions. They moved up at heavier division (because of different reasons) and didn't achieve anything similar.

My short list (since 2000) :

Adamek (excellent at CW, no more than average at HW).
Roman Gonzalez
Rigondeaux
Gamboa
Cotto

What do you think ?
He became #1 at SFW after beating Cuadras. That isn't failing.

....And, after that, he has been almost killed......

Posted: **06 Apr 2018, 01:50**

ValMar wrote: ↑05 Apr 2018, 16:02 Some fighters were the excellent ones at their optimal weight divisions. They moved up at heavier division (because of different reasons) and didn't achieve anything similar.

My short list (since 2000) :

Adamek (excellent at CW, no more than average at HW).
Roman Gonzalez
Rigondeaux
Gamboa
Cotto

What do you think ?

Adamek was also LHW chanpion..

Gonzalez moved uo and became a 4 weight world champion..maybe too early to say for him.. need to see if he bounces back..

Posted: **06 Apr 2018, 09:43**

ValMar wrote: ↑06 Apr 2018, 00:09
Mexi-Box wrote: ↑05 Apr 2018, 22:38
ValMar wrote: ↑05 Apr 2018, 16:02 Some fighters were the excellent ones at their optimal weight divisions. They moved up at heavier division (because of different reasons) and didn't achieve anything similar.

My short list (since 2000) :

Adamek (excellent at CW, no more than average at HW).
Roman Gonzalez
Rigondeaux
Gamboa
Cotto

What do you think ?
He became #1 at SFW after beating Cuadras. That isn't failing.
....And, after that, he has been almost killed......

Everyone loses at one point facing the kind of prime, talented fighters Gonzalez did. Doesn't mean he's failed at all. He would still be the favorite over Arroyo, Cuadras, Ancajas, etc. He just met his match with Sor Rungvisai who is the #1 p4p in the world at the moment.

Posted: **06 Apr 2018, 09:57**

Mac Foster.

Posted: **06 Apr 2018, 10:10**

Abradolf Lincler wrote: ↑05 Apr 2018, 21:15 It's tough to lump Gonzalez in there, in my opinion. First of all, he was equally deadly (increasingly deadly as he gained experience, in fact) from 105 to 112. Secondly, he beat one of the best 115 pounders in his first fight moving up (although it was obvious he wasn't the same), took the new king to the brink and was arguably robbed in his second fight at the weight, and was 30 years old (which typically means a lot more for the tiny guys) when he got his first major loss to the same man, who has since showed just how for real he is.

Spot on.

Posted: **06 Apr 2018, 10:15**

i dont understand the cotto pick

Posted: **06 Apr 2018, 10:52**

jamamb wrote: ↑06 Apr 2018, 10:15 i dont understand the cotto pick

He had been an elite level boxer, before he moved up at MW. OK, he defeated Martinez (shot and injured, totally out of prime) and that's it. Honestly, I don't think that anyone would claim he has been the genuine champion at MW.
I don't want to diminish his achievement at WW and LMW, but it was a different story at MW.

Posted: **06 Apr 2018, 11:03**

ValMar wrote: ↑06 Apr 2018, 10:52
jamamb wrote: ↑06 Apr 2018, 10:15 i dont understand the cotto pick
He had been an elite level boxer, before he moved up at MW. OK, he defeated Martinez (shot and injured, totally out of prime) and that's it. Honestly, I don't think that anyone would claim he has been the genuine champion at MW.
I don't want to diminish his achievement at WW and LMW, but it was a different story at MW.

We're talking about his 4th weight class. He won his first title at 147, succeeded at 147, the was still ok at 154.

Posted: **06 Apr 2018, 11:11**

JuanMa Lopez was a beast at 122.

Posted: **06 Apr 2018, 11:15**

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑06 Apr 2018, 11:03
ValMar wrote: ↑06 Apr 2018, 10:52
jamamb wrote: ↑06 Apr 2018, 10:15 i dont understand the cotto pick
He had been an elite level boxer, before he moved up at MW. OK, he defeated Martinez (shot and injured, totally out of prime) and that's it. Honestly, I don't think that anyone would claim he has been the genuine champion at MW.
I don't want to diminish his achievement at WW and LMW, but it was a different story at MW.
We're talking about his 4th weight class. He won his first title at 147, succeeded at 147, the was still ok at 154.

Yes, but he was not the genuine champion at MW.

Posted: **06 Apr 2018, 11:17**

ValMar wrote: ↑06 Apr 2018, 11:15 Yes, but he was not the genuine champion at MW.

True. Because he never fought at 160..

Posted: **06 Apr 2018, 11:18**

just seems funny to classify it as a fail though, he still kod sergio and geale, got lineal credit actually

that was his 4th division and he also won titles in the other 3, doesnt fit the bill imo as a guy who failed moving up, if anything id say hes an example of still being successful

Posted: **06 Apr 2018, 11:21**

ValMar wrote: ↑06 Apr 2018, 11:15
IKSRTFO wrote: ↑06 Apr 2018, 11:03
ValMar wrote: ↑06 Apr 2018, 10:52

He had been an elite level boxer, before he moved up at MW. OK, he defeated Martinez (shot and injured, totally out of prime) and that's it. Honestly, I don't think that anyone would claim he has been the genuine champion at MW.
I don't want to diminish his achievement at WW and LMW, but it was a different story at MW.
We're talking about his 4th weight class. He won his first title at 147, succeeded at 147, the was still ok at 154.
Yes, but he was not the genuine champion at MW.

He was the lineal champion. But it's not he was plagued by moving up his entire career nor was his intention to fight steadily at 160. It only fought like 3 fights at middleweight and won two including the lineal championship. That's hardly a failure.

Posted: **06 Apr 2018, 13:28**

Adamek as a former LHW did not bad at HW

Posted: **06 Apr 2018, 13:32**

ValMar wrote: ↑06 Apr 2018, 10:52
jamamb wrote: ↑06 Apr 2018, 10:15 i dont understand the cotto pick
He had been an elite level boxer, before he moved up at MW. OK, he defeated Martinez (shot and injured, totally out of prime) and that's it. Honestly, I don't think that anyone would claim he has been the genuine champion at MW.
I don't want to diminish his achievement at WW and LMW, but it was a different story at MW.

Martinez was still rated p4p at the time. Cotto would've done that to any version of Martinez. Martinez never was on Cotto's level, nor Canelo's.

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