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Sullivan's Mustache
Posted: 14 Apr 2018, 16:14
by APerno
Does anyone know if Sullivan shaved his famed mustache off for all his fights or just the bare knuckle ones?
I have read that one of the reasons Sullivan hated fighting bare knuckle was being grabbed. I wonder if he didn't want his mustache being grabbed, or if he shaved it off for all his fights.
Re: Sullivan's Mustache
Posted: 14 Apr 2018, 17:27
by HomicideHenry
He always shaved his mustache off when defending the title, especially when it was bareknuckle rules. He even shaved his hair depending on the rules.
Re: Sullivan's Mustache
Posted: 15 Apr 2018, 01:00
by Kalan
Those 2 boys look like club fighters... Out of shape... No hardness... No musculature... No size or strength...
No wonder Corbett took over... Gentleman Jim had no size or strength -- but at least he had great conditioning.
I always wondered about handlebar mustaches... In a street fight somebody could literally pull part of your face off .... and not a part you'd want to lose... You wouldn't want a dust up with John Fury if you were sporting one of those... Too attractive a target... If a man would gouge your eye out, he'd go after those handles.
Re: Sullivan's Mustache
Posted: 15 Apr 2018, 03:33
by BitPlayer
Kalan wrote: ↑15 Apr 2018, 01:00
Those 2 boys look like club fighters... Out of shape... No hardness... No musculature... No size or strength...
No wonder Corbett took over... Gentleman Jim had no size or strength -- but at least he had great conditioning.
I always wondered about handlebar mustaches... In a street fight somebody could literally pull part of your face off .... and not a part you'd want to lose... You wouldn't want a dust up with John Fury if you were sporting one of those... Too attractive a target... If a man would gouge your eye out, he'd go after those handles.
Re: Sullivan's Mustache
Posted: 16 Apr 2018, 15:26
by Caractacus
BitPlayer wrote: ↑15 Apr 2018, 03:33
Kalan wrote: ↑15 Apr 2018, 01:00
Those 2 boys look like club fighters... Out of shape... No hardness... No musculature... No size or strength...
No wonder Corbett took over... Gentleman Jim had no size or strength -- but at least he had great conditioning.
I always wondered about handlebar mustaches... In a street fight somebody could literally pull part of your face off .... and not a part you'd want to lose... You wouldn't want a dust up with John Fury if you were sporting one of those... Too attractive a target... If a man would gouge your eye out, he'd go after those handles.
No hardness ?
just look at that big assed artery or whatever around John L. Sullivan's left fore-arm.
That indicates power in his forearm especially with a twisting motion.
Re: Sullivan's Mustache
Posted: 16 Apr 2018, 15:41
by Ambling Alp II
He looks pretty good that one one. That's a famous picture of Sullivan that you see in a lot of boxing books.
Sometimes Sullivan was in shape and sometimes he wasn't. Interesting that they both look better in the top picture than in the lower one. (I believe that the lower picture was not "discovered until a few years ago.) Amazing that Sullivan and Kilrain fought for so long.
Re: Sullivan's Mustache
Posted: 16 Apr 2018, 15:46
by Caractacus
I bet if someone was to tint his skin tone darker in that photograph other then Sullivan's natural "Alabaster" skin tone,
they would think twice to say that.
Re: Sullivan's Mustache
Posted: 16 Apr 2018, 15:48
by Caractacus
btw how many photgraphs exist of John L. Sullivan (with his shirt off)
that were taken from the original negatives of the photographic images ?
Detail always gets lost in reproductions of reproductions of photos.
Re: Sullivan's Mustache
Posted: 16 Apr 2018, 15:58
by Caractacus
Cropping the hair short for a title fight at least goes back to 1795 when Daniel Mendoza lost his English HW title
primarly due to his opponent "Gentleman" John Jackson grabbing Mendoza's long curly black locks
with one hand while punching him in the face with the other.
Sullivan dfinately shaved his mustache off for the fights with Paddy Ryan in 1886 and Charlie Mitchel in 1888.
Re: Sullivan's Mustache
Posted: 16 Apr 2018, 16:56
by Kalan
Caractacus wrote: ↑16 Apr 2018, 15:26
No hardness ? just look at that big assed artery or whatever around John L. Sullivan's left fore-arm.
That indicates power in his forearm especially with a twisting motion.
Well of course... Anybody's arms look twice as big and impressive if they're folding them like that... But John L's still look terribly anemic compared to modern Heavyweights like Joshua or the K Bros..
I was referring to a photo above that one -- where Kilrain (on your left) is loading a right-hand from his hip, that Sullivan is looking to defend against.. Sullivan looks fat, soft, and with no definition on his arms... Kilrain looks weak as Hell.
Re: Sullivan's Mustache
Posted: 16 Apr 2018, 17:04
by Caractacus
APerno wrote: ↑14 Apr 2018, 16:14
Does anyone know if Sullivan shaved his famed mustache off for all his fights or just the bare knuckle ones?
I have read that one of the reasons Sullivan hated fighting bare knuckle was being grabbed. I wonder if he didn't want his mustache being grabbed, or if he shaved it off for all his fights.
Doesn't he look a bit like Jim J. Jeffries there ?
Ingemar Johannson also looked a bit like "the Boiler-Maker" when he was younger anyway.
Perhaps due to to raiding Viking ancestry eons earlier.
Re: Sullivan's Mustache
Posted: 16 Apr 2018, 17:24
by Kalan
Caractacus wrote: ↑16 Apr 2018, 15:26
No hardness ? just look at that big assed artery or whatever around John L. Sullivan's left fore-arm.
That indicates power in his forearm especially with a twisting motion.
Well of course... Anybody's arms look twice as big and impressive if they're folding them like that... But John L's still looks terribly anemic compared to modern Heavyweights like Joshua or the K Bros..
I was referring to the photo above -- where Kilrain (on your left) is loading a right-hand from his hip, that Sullivan is looking to defend against.. Sullivan looks fat, soft, and with no definition on his arms... Kilrain looks weak as Hell.
Re: Sullivan's Mustache
Posted: 17 Apr 2018, 08:57
by BitPlayer
Caractacus wrote: ↑16 Apr 2018, 15:58
Cropping the hair short for a title fight at least goes back to 1795 when Daniel Mendoza lost his English HW title
primarly due to his opponent "Gentleman" John Jackson grabbing Mendoza's long curly black locks
with one hand while punching him in the face with the other.
Sullivan dfinately shaved his mustache off for the fights with Paddy Ryan in 1886 and Charlie Mitchel in 1888.
I think it was standard before then, Mendoza just didn't really follow it.
I've heard it suggest that what Jackson did to him wasn't really allowed and that he got away with it because of the politics, well antisemitism, at the time. It wasn't based on particularly strong evidence though.
Re: Sullivan's Mustache
Posted: 17 Apr 2018, 12:12
by APerno
Re: Sullivan's Mustache
Posted: 17 Apr 2018, 12:37
by Boxerbeetle
Caractacus wrote: ↑16 Apr 2018, 15:58
Cropping the hair short for a title fight at least goes back to 1795 when Daniel Mendoza lost his English HW title
primarly due to his opponent "Gentleman" John Jackson grabbing Mendoza's long curly black locks
with one hand while punching him in the face with the other.
Sullivan dfinately shaved his mustache off for the fights with Paddy Ryan in 1886 and Charlie Mitchel in 1888.
I guess the ‘Gentleman’ nickname was deliberately ironic
Re: Sullivan's Mustache
Posted: 17 Apr 2018, 17:37
by ewenhay
Looking forward to the 'Tommy Morrison's Mullet' thread!
Re: Sullivan's Mustache
Posted: 18 Apr 2018, 15:34
by BitPlayer
Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑17 Apr 2018, 12:37
Caractacus wrote: ↑16 Apr 2018, 15:58
Cropping the hair short for a title fight at least goes back to 1795 when Daniel Mendoza lost his English HW title
primarly due to his opponent "Gentleman" John Jackson grabbing Mendoza's long curly black locks
with one hand while punching him in the face with the other.
Sullivan dfinately shaved his mustache off for the fights with Paddy Ryan in 1886 and Charlie Mitchel in 1888.
I guess the ‘Gentleman’ nickname was deliberately ironic
No, I think it was because he actually somehow got himself a very high social status despite not being born into it. He only had I think 3 pro fights do, but he was a boxing instructor etc.
