BoxRec

This is one of those fights that never made sense to me as to why it didn't happen. You'd of thought two knockout artists with similar opponents would have been tremendous box office.

Anyone know if this was ever suggested? Ever come close to being made? Was completely avoided? Etc.

Sonny spent some prison time. By the time he was out and ranked as the top contender, Ingo was already in his 3 fight series with Floyd.

In my opinion, Sonny would give Ingo a terrible and it would be worse for Ingo than Sonny gave Floyd Patterson a terrible beating. Anyways, Sonny by KO in 4.

I think Ingo became Sonny Liston's promoter when he was in Europe 1966-67.

I believe a person here who knows a little about a lot of things, and less about others, commented that Ingo wanted no part of Sonny. So you may want to seriously doubt what I just wrote.

I've always been curious what might have happened had Ali at 4-0-0 would have done against Ingo when he was champion. So many always say Ali would have won, but that just goes to show how brainwashed people are by the Ali propaganda machine.

Well Ali didn't get starched when they met for a few moments in a ring in Fla.

That did happen right? Or am I just having a romp through another dimension?

This would've been bad news for Ingo. Though he'd have a puncher's chance I figure that Sonny would've beaten the hell out of him more often than not.

BoxBuzz wrote: ↑19 Apr 2018, 22:33 Well Ali didn't get starched when they met for a few moments in a ring in Fla.

That did happen right? Or am I just having a romp through another dimension?

It was, what, a 2 or 3 round exhibition or sparring session? Context is everything. Make it a 15 round fight with 8oz gloves.... I don't think a "four round fighter" no matter how gifted, would beat a world's champion down the stretch.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑19 Apr 2018, 22:52

BoxBuzz wrote: ↑19 Apr 2018, 22:33 Well Ali didn't get starched when they met for a few moments in a ring in Fla.

That did happen right? Or am I just having a romp through another dimension?

It was, what, a 2 or 3 round exhibition or sparring session? Context is everything. Make it a 15 round fight with 8oz gloves.... I don't think a "four round fighter" no matter how gifted, would beat a world's champion down the stretch.

Ali was never a "four round fighter", HH.
After his W6 pro debut against seasoned journeyman Tunny Hunsaker ( 17-9-1 ), Ali immediately went onto fighting scheduled 8 round fights & by his seventh pro fight he was fighting 10 round main events. And this was the slow route that his people took with him. I've little to no doubt that had they chosen to move him up the ranks at a more accelerated rate by putting him into 10 rounders right away that he'd have been successful.
Whether he could have beaten Ingo after only four pro outings is up to debate though. There's a good chance that his superior speed & athleticism would have been too much for Ingo to handle & that Ali would have stopped him in five or six rounds.

I just don't buy it. At 4-0-0 he was fighting guys who were full-time cops, etc... 16 fights later he'd be fighting Archie Moore... There's just too much disparity between a guy like Johansson and Ali at that point and time.

People forget that Ingo was a silver medalist in the Olympics, and had been a professional for nine years by 1961... His pedigree was too much... Ali may have confused him for a few rounds, but, make no mistake, a world class athlete with that much experience, in his prime, would have figured him out.

I mean for crying out loud, if Ali went the full six rounds with Tunney Hunsaker just a few months prior.... There's no way in hell he's lasting 15 rounds, let alone winning against Johansson.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑20 Apr 2018, 00:51 I just don't buy it. At 4-0-0 he was fighting guys who were full-time cops, etc... 16 fights later he'd be fighting Archie Moore... There's just too much disparity between a guy like Johansson and Ali at that point and time.

People forget that Ingo was a silver medalist in the Olympics, and had been a professional for nine years by 1961... His pedigree was too much... Ali may have confused him for a few rounds, but, make no mistake, a world class athlete with that much experience, in his prime, would have figured him out.

I mean for crying out loud, if Ali went the full six rounds with Tunney Hunsaker just a few months prior.... There's no way in hell he's lasting 15 rounds, let alone winning against Johansson.

You could very well be right. I'd lean toward that assessment myself, to be honest. Certainly, at that stage, the longer the fight went the better Ingo's chances would be as the more mature, seasoned pro. But, IMHO, the only point in their respective careers that Ingo could have beaten Ali was at that stage early on while Ali was still a green kid.

sweetviolenturge wrote: ↑20 Apr 2018, 01:13

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑20 Apr 2018, 00:51 I just don't buy it. At 4-0-0 he was fighting guys who were full-time cops, etc... 16 fights later he'd be fighting Archie Moore... There's just too much disparity between a guy like Johansson and Ali at that point and time.

People forget that Ingo was a silver medalist in the Olympics, and had been a professional for nine years by 1961... His pedigree was too much... Ali may have confused him for a few rounds, but, make no mistake, a world class athlete with that much experience, in his prime, would have figured him out.

I mean for crying out loud, if Ali went the full six rounds with Tunney Hunsaker just a few months prior.... There's no way in hell he's lasting 15 rounds, let alone winning against Johansson.

You could very well be right. I'd lean toward that assessment myself, to be honest. Certainly, at that stage, the longer the fight went the better Ingo's chances would be as the more mature, seasoned pro. But, IMHO, the only point in their respective careers that Ingo could have beaten Ali was at that stage early on while Ali was still a green kid.

On that we don't disagree.

However, it must be noted that Johansson absolutely crushed Henry Cooper in 1957 (five rounds), and six years later Cooper damn near defeated Ali.

So split the difference, Ali would have been facing a helluva challenge in Johansson in 1961. It's very possible that the kid would have showboated too much, got careless, and got caught... Just like Cooper caught him... But with Ingo being a far heavier hitter, he'd of probably stayed down.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑20 Apr 2018, 01:23

sweetviolenturge wrote: ↑20 Apr 2018, 01:13

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑20 Apr 2018, 00:51 I just don't buy it. At 4-0-0 he was fighting guys who were full-time cops, etc... 16 fights later he'd be fighting Archie Moore... There's just too much disparity between a guy like Johansson and Ali at that point and time.

People forget that Ingo was a silver medalist in the Olympics, and had been a professional for nine years by 1961... His pedigree was too much... Ali may have confused him for a few rounds, but, make no mistake, a world class athlete with that much experience, in his prime, would have figured him out.

I mean for crying out loud, if Ali went the full six rounds with Tunney Hunsaker just a few months prior.... There's no way in hell he's lasting 15 rounds, let alone winning against Johansson.

You could very well be right. I'd lean toward that assessment myself, to be honest. Certainly, at that stage, the longer the fight went the better Ingo's chances would be as the more mature, seasoned pro. But, IMHO, the only point in their respective careers that Ingo could have beaten Ali was at that stage early on while Ali was still a green kid.

On that we don't disagree.

However, it must be noted that Johansson absolutely crushed Henry Cooper in 1957 (five rounds), and six years later Cooper damn near defeated Ali.

So split the difference, Ali would have been facing a helluva challenge in Johansson in 1961. It's very possible that the kid would have showboated too much, got careless, and got caught... Just like Cooper caught him... But with Ingo being a far heavier hitter, he'd of probably stayed down.

Ali didn't get hit with the straight rights that much... He could see them coming.

Left or right hooks got Ali... Mildenberger got Ali with a bunch of right hooks and left hooks, but he was such a weak puncher and he had no defense for the straight right.. Mildenberger got hit with every straight right you threw.. Dick Richardson had a fair straight right and he knocked Mildenberger dead cold for about 15 minutes. First round.

I figured Cooper might be dangerous for Ali because he was a good left hooker... If you lean back, or pull straight back from punches like Ali did you look straight rights all the way in.. You don't get nailed... You get nailed with sharp left hooks like Cooper threw... Cooper's problem was he didn't have the size or strength to crank the hook very hard... He was such a small Heavyweight he couldn't throw.. Frazier was kind of small, but he could throw a little harder than Cooper.. Mike Tyson would have been a tough opponent for Ali.. Mike could crank the hook harder than anybody else who goes 218.. Truth Williams got hit with left hooks too.. BOOM...it's over.

As for Sonny vs Ingo.. You don't want to watch that fight.. I don't put Ingo in with Sonny.. I sure as Hell don't put Patterson in there with Sonny, but that's a more dangerous environment for Ingo than Floyd... His defense was just so bad.

Patterson could rip the left hook harder than Cooper. Johansson pulled back from left hooks like Ali did... Patterson almost killed Ingo with a perfect hook as he pulled back.. If Patterson caught Ali like that he's stretched for 10... So I thought Patterson would be a very dangerous opponent for Ali.. He wasn't.

Patterson had something going on with his back when he fought Ali.. His back went out completely... He never cranked up a fearsome left hook all night... And when Patterson fought Ali in the 70's that rippling left hook was gone.

from what I remember reading in a book about Sonny Liston.
There were plans for Sonny Liston to fight Ingemar Johansson in Sweden in September 1961,
the winner to fight Patterson.(this was before the rubber match was signed)
Liston was ranked just behind Johannson around that time and even offered to fight them both on the same night.
Johannson was asked about Liston and said he thought he was slow and that he could "lick him".

also shortly after when Liston became HW Champ in September 1962 he offered to defend it against Ingemar Johannsson,
but wanted Johhansson to first fight Cleveland Williams before he got a title shot again.
(I think Liston also wanted Cassius Clay to first fight Cleveland Williams before he got his shot at the title too).
sounds like Liston wanted Williams to be his "Gate Keeper".

Caractacus wrote: ↑20 Apr 2018, 14:10 Johannson was asked about Liston and said he thought he was slow and that he could "lick him".

Ingo was very impressed with Liston... He called him "a very good boxer" and refused to say he would fight him when reporters asked him about a potential match between Liston and Ingo...

Johansson was way too smart to fight Liston...

Ingo almost got knocked cold by the woeful Brian London... Time to QUIT when THAT happens!!!!