BoxRec

Interesting data:

interesting statistics, thanks

Ssshh! We all know cycling is the epitome of 'advanced' training methods. We also all know these figures are just the tip of an enormous iceberg especially in sports where the the difference in winning and losing can be measured in tenths of a second.

However we don't want people, especially impressionable kids getting any bad ideas. Let them rest assured that doping is well and truly under control. Especially in such professionally run sports like boxing.

Avery Brundage (IOC President 1952-72) had the right idea, but he was pissing against the wind. Amateurism is now only for amateurs because we are now living in entirely different times.

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 11:32 Interesting data:

It would be interesting to see the percentages based off of population

tiny_acres wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 19:35

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 11:32 Interesting data:

It would be interesting to see the percentages based off of population

Once again you beat me to the punch tiny! LMAO! Give me back my brain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At a glance....the highest incidence per capita is Belgium.

And then it looks like Australia is 2nd.... Italy 3rd.... France 4th... Russia 5th... USA 6th... and heavily populated India 7th

That's not the right way to view this... Since Italy has 71% more PED users than anyone -- they should get the stigma.

Are they leading in Gold Medals??? HELL NO!!! ... Shows how ineffective PEDs are.

Kalan wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 20:58 At a glance....the highest incidence per capita is Belgium.

And then it looks like Australia is 2nd.... Italy 3rd.... France 4th... Russia 5th... USA 6th... and heavily populated India 7th

That's not the right way to view this... Since Italy has 71% more PED users than anyone -- they should get the stigma.

Are they leading in Gold Medals??? HELL NO!!! ... Shows how ineffective PEDs are.

LOL, ineffective indeed! Thanks for the results...appreciated.

tiny_acres wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 19:35

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 11:32 Interesting data:

It would be interesting to see the percentages based off of population

They don't test general population.

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 21:29

tiny_acres wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 19:35

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 11:32 Interesting data:

It would be interesting to see the percentages based off of population

They don't test general population.

You know...as soon as I posted that, I thought of that and got lazy instead of editing. Good callout!

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 21:29

tiny_acres wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 19:35

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 11:32 Interesting data:

It would be interesting to see the percentages based off of population

They don't test general population.

But it would show that countries such as Russia have half the population yet nearly equal numbers failed to the US.

Or Italy having even less population having the highest number of failed athletes

They test top level athletes, and India probably has fewer of those than Italy.

It's interesting that neither Germany nor United Kingdom aren't among the top 7 violators of PED standards .... nor is China, who also does extremely well in international athletic competitions, among the worst scofflaws ....

I'd think those 3 nations would be among the top violators, but they're not.. I'd like to know their numbers.

The likelihood is that those nations with the most violations are the countries with the most effective drug testing protocols.

You have countries like Ethiopia and Jamaica where it is believed that almost no testing is performed, hence very few violations, coupled with the fact that Russia's RUSADA hasn't been reinstated by WADA yet.

I remember a few years ago that so many people were mocking the amount of fighters testing positive for PED's in the UFC, until they realised the real reason why so few boxers are caught cheating is because almost none of them are tested.

For example, the WBC received a lot of praise over the implementation of the CBP, but they only pay $10K per month to VADA for this service, but the hundreds of thousands they receive in fines (i.e. the $250K that Povetkin paid) aren't used to fund extra testing.

The WBC won't disclose what this extra revenue is used for, so we can only assume it's used to increase their profits.

Therefore, certain sports (where a specific set of nations gain a lot of success) don't have very much testing, will superficially appear "clean", because they'll report very few infractions. The same rule applies to a set of countries in general where almost no testing is performed.

So you have to consider these stats in their true context.

AJKlitschfury wrote: ↑02 May 2018, 03:48 You can't really say much with this, if Belgiums get tested all day long, they score higher despite more innocent Belgiums, if Americans never get tested they score low, while more guilty Americans. And be honest, how many Italian, or Belgium pro sporters can you name?
Povetkin was the most tested boxer in the entire world, Stiverne basically got tested 2 or 3 times in his life, the first time he got busted live in the act of taking doping in front of the tester (appearantly thinking he was part of his team), appearantly the lab did a terrible job untill this point, when they had no choice but admitting he was using doping, the second time he didn't show up at all.

If you actually look into the numbers you'll notice that all the sports that are popular in America don't get test that much, but still got loads of people caught, all the sports that aren't popular in America nobody get's caught, while everybody get's tested.
Long story short, it's obvious that America is the country where the most dopers are active. Even people that live in America, like Sharapova, will be seen as an American succes, but as a Russian doper.

Whilst you’ve articulated a few valid points, your anit-American sentiments are a tad harsh.

Perhaps you should have mentioned other countries (with relatively small populations) that manage to achieve a disproportionate amount of success in certain sports that are renowned for having almost no PED drug testing protocols in place (i.e. Kenya, Morocco & Ethiopia in long distance running; the Caribbean countries in sprinting etc.).

You also need to actually read the report itself, because it makes for interesting reading, such as:

• More samples were taken (globally) for a sport like Kabaddi than for professional boxing
• There were 9,131 samples taken from USADA, but only 2,557 from RUSADA, but yet America only reported seven more violations than Russia did
• Italy reported the most violations (147 of them), but they took 8,158 samples
• Germany took 13,822 samples, but they didn’t make the top ten list of countries with the most violations

Comment on the facts detailed within the report – you should refrain from proposing the existence of trends that are unsubstantiated.

I keep reading posts in this thread from other people stating “it’ll be interesting to know X, Y & Z”, but the report actually provides most of this information, but they’ve clearly not read it.

I believe maybe 1% of athletes who test positive were actually trying to cheat... I've talked with football players who tested positive because over-the-counter supplements they were taking were sprayed with cheap steroids by the manufacturer... You'd think anyone who did something like that would be put out of business... At the most they plead ignorance and pay an undisclosed fine for consumer fraud... They continue with their practices as usual... Fines are a business expense and there's no way with the laws we have to put them out of business.

Also steroids are often fed to cattle and often injected into horses if they have an injury... You don't always know what you're getting in a restaurant.. or where that steak came from.. Athletes test positive and they're dumb struck.

The WBC finally admitted Povetkin DIDN'T take Meldonium....which is an over-the-counter product like aspirin... You can buy it on Amazon and every testing agency in the world considered it fine to take until 2016 when it was added to the banned list for political reasons.. It's manufactured in Latvia.. If it were an American product it would still be legal.

Povetkin never heard of Ostarine....and neither did Lucas Browne or Lucian Bute.... Nobody tests positive for Ostarine for years and suddenly there's rash of positives... The WBC allowed for no minimum concentration... Povetkin supposedly had 1/10th of a nanogram in his test -- an amount so infinitesimal it was ridiculous because that amount couldn't enhance a flea... VADA came up with the positive test the day before the fight -- for maximum damage to the Moscow promotion...

Kalan wrote: ↑03 May 2018, 01:30 I believe maybe 1% of athletes who test positive were actually trying to cheat...

AJKlitschfury wrote: ↑02 May 2018, 06:41

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑02 May 2018, 04:34

AJKlitschfury wrote: ↑02 May 2018, 03:48 You can't really say much with this, if Belgiums get tested all day long, they score higher despite more innocent Belgiums, if Americans never get tested they score low, while more guilty Americans. And be honest, how many Italian, or Belgium pro sporters can you name?
Povetkin was the most tested boxer in the entire world, Stiverne basically got tested 2 or 3 times in his life, the first time he got busted live in the act of taking doping in front of the tester (appearantly thinking he was part of his team), appearantly the lab did a terrible job untill this point, when they had no choice but admitting he was using doping, the second time he didn't show up at all.

If you actually look into the numbers you'll notice that all the sports that are popular in America don't get test that much, but still got loads of people caught, all the sports that aren't popular in America nobody get's caught, while everybody get's tested.
Long story short, it's obvious that America is the country where the most dopers are active. Even people that live in America, like Sharapova, will be seen as an American succes, but as a Russian doper.

Whilst you’ve articulated a few valid points, your anit-American sentiments are a tad harsh.

Perhaps you should have mentioned other countries (with relatively small populations) that manage to achieve a disproportionate amount of success in certain sports that are renowned for having almost no PED drug testing protocols in place (i.e. Kenya, Morocco & Ethiopia in long distance running; the Caribbean countries in sprinting etc.).

You also need to actually read the report itself, because it makes for interesting reading, such as:

• More samples were taken (globally) for a sport like Kabaddi than for professional boxing
• There were 9,131 samples taken from USADA, but only 2,557 from RUSADA, but yet America only reported seven more violations than Russia did
• Italy reported the most violations (147 of them), but they took 8,158 samples
• Germany took 13,822 samples, but they didn’t make the top ten list of countries with the most violations

Comment on the facts detailed within the report – you should refrain from proposing the existence of trends that are unsubstantiated.

I keep reading posts in this thread from other people stating “it’ll be interesting to know X, Y & Z”, but the report actually provides most of this information, but they’ve clearly not read it.

Popular sports in America:
Sport tested positive
American Football 1,272 61
Baseball 1,016 63
Basketball 5,038 50
Football 32,397 158 (admitted, more popular in Europe so this could influence the number)
Ice Hockey 3,229 36


Popular sports in Russia:
Sport tested positive:
Figure Skating 582 7
Ice Hockey 3,229 36
Tennis 4,544 33
Biathlon 1,688 16
Orienteering 402 2
Australian Rules Football 479 4

Popular sport in Belgium:
Sport tested positive:
Football 33,227 168
Cycling 23,132 252
Tennis 4,544 33
Running? Athletics 31,433 373
Field Hockey 1,651 6
Swimming? Aquatics 15,174 145


Is that a coïncidence? I don't think so, but it's your call.



Boxing 4,769 97
Kabaddi 267 21

About USADA, 139 caught, 51 of them medical
Germany, 46 caught 18 of them medical
Netherlands, 20 caught, 10 medical
Sweden, 49 caught, 29 medical
Canada, 34 caught, 17 medical


But now:
Mexico 45 caught, 0 medical
Kazakhstan 62 caught, 0 medical
India 73 caught, 0 medical
RUSADA, 66 caught, 0 of them medical (since Meldonium obviously isn't medical ofcourse ?? ).


It seems like, some countries receive some kind of protection (including my own country I'd have to admit).

Odd thing about Italy is that the written numbers says 80 caught, but the painted one says 147 caught, not sure what's going on there.

If you read the report, it actually provides a breakdown by country, whereas you’re surmising based on your rough guess about certain sports being more popular in specific countries than others, which renders the logic you’ve used to deduce your perceived “coincidence” as being highly-flawed.

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 04:27

Kalan wrote: ↑03 May 2018, 01:30 I believe maybe 1% of athletes who test positive were actually trying to cheat...

If you talk to 100 athletes who supposedly tested positive -- 99 will tell you they ate contaminated food.... they were prescribed a medication by a doctor that had the substance in it by a different name..... It was in an over-the-counter supplement they bought that was contaminated with the PED.... It was in their nasal decongestant.... or there was some other way they came up positive when it was never their intention to cheat.

Kalan wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 10:54

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 04:27

Kalan wrote: ↑03 May 2018, 01:30 I believe maybe 1% of athletes who test positive were actually trying to cheat...

If you talk to 100 athletes who supposedly tested positive -- 99 will tell you they ate contaminated food.... they were prescribed a medication by a doctor that had the substance in it by a different name..... It was in an over-the-counter supplement they bought that was contaminated with the PED.... It was in their nasal decongestant.... or there was some other way they came up positive when it was never their intention to cheat.

so, wait- no, really, wait kids, this is incredible stuff- if you an interview an athlete, they tell you they didn't mean to cheat

you mean, they don't just come out and say 'i'm a great big fat cheater, a great big cheaty drug-taking cheat?'

they tell you it was all innocent, all a mistake, they never actually meant to take all those steroids and testosterone?




IN OTHER NEWS TODAY, KIDS:

LOTS OF PEOPLE IN JAIL SAY THEY ARE INNOCENT


what a fvcking idiot this guy is. 'i believe only 1% mean to cheat', because the rest tell him they really, honestly, didn't mean to cheat

I've got a bridge for sale, kalan, and I'm going to tell you its really, really good, just so you buy it, you total dumbass. you utter ball of credulousness.

its like asking Forrest fvcking Gump his opinion on PED's in sport.

you're a complete fruit-ball who doesn't have any faith in people. Criminals generally admit their crimes.

People in jail or prison generally admit they're guilty... They did the crime and they're doing the time... People don't lie and say they're innocent if they're really guilty. That would compound their wrongdoing. There's some evil people of course.

People like Hurricane Carter who insist they're innocent often get heard... They get people on their side and eventually they're proven innocent....though often it takes 10, 20, or 30 years to prove they're innocent such as in Carter's case because the evidence is sometimes destroyed or whatever ... It's too easy to convict people.

Right now there are so many substances on the banned list that it's easy for contamination to happen... If your A sample is contaminated your B sample is going to give the same result.

Yeah. 99% of dopers are doing it entirely by accident and only 1% are deliberately cheating

Thats going in the Kalan 'Eubank jr one of the smartest boxers of all time' Hall of Fame

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 14:49 Yeah. 99% of dopers are doing it entirely by accident and only 1% are deliberately cheating

Thats going in the Kalan 'Eubank jr one of the smartest boxers of all time' Hall of Fame

yep it's up there

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 14:49 Yeah. 99% of dopers are doing it entirely by accident and only 1% are deliberately cheating

Look at the last 25 or cases cases of boxers testing positive and listen to what the boxer has to say.... It makes no sense for a boxer to be deliberately doping when he knows he has to take PED tests and his rep will be in the shitter.

Kalan wrote: ↑05 May 2018, 10:15

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 14:49 Yeah. 99% of dopers are doing it entirely by accident and only 1% are deliberately cheating

Look at the last 25 or cases cases of boxers testing positive and listen to what the boxer has to say.... It makes no sense for a boxer to be deliberately doping when he knows he has to take PED tests and his rep will be in the shitter.

In your Panglossian world, maybe. Keep your hands over your eyes chanting 'la la la I can't
hear you', kid, you may manage to avoid reality entirely; your grasp on it seems to be tenuous at the best of times.