BoxRec

SenorPipino wrote: ↑12 May 2018, 13:50 That was a classic era. It probably gets unfairly downgraded because of Monzon's dominance during the bulk of that decade.

If there was no Monzon, Valdez would be much more remembered and revered.

The Philly fighters were special with Boogaloo Watts (hey, there's a great name) handing Hagler the first defeat of his career (very disputed) and Worm Monroe turning the same trick just months later (deserved).

Hagler would avenge those losses with KO wins.

Too bad Monzon and Hagler missed each other by a few years.

Only error I see on your list is including Mando Muñiz, a career welterweight.

Unlike others, I won't call you every 4 letter word in the book for this mistake or suggest that the world would he better off without your presence.

But believe me, somebody will.

oogiebe wrote: ↑12 May 2018, 13:52

SenorPipino wrote: ↑12 May 2018, 13:50 That was a classic era. It probably gets unfairly downgraded because of Monzon's dominance during the bulk of that decade.

If there was no Monzon, Valdez would be much more remembered and revered.

The Philly fighters were special with Boogaloo Watts (hey, there's a great name) handing Hagler the first defeat of his career (very disputed) and Worm Monroe turning the same trick just months later (deserved).

Hagler would avenge those losses with KO wins.

Too bad Monzon and Hagler missed each other by a few years.

Only error I see on your list is including Mando Muñiz, a career welterweight.

Unlike others, I won't call you every 4 letter word in the book for this mistake or suggest that the world would he better off without your presence.

But believe me, somebody will.

I didn't look up any on the list. From my head. Not the first time I have Armundo in as middleweight. Don't know why that keeps happening to me! I don't mind being corrected at all.

SenorPipino wrote: ↑12 May 2018, 14:05 Muniz was one of my favorites.

Followed him from the beginning when turned pro at the Olympic Auditorium in 1970.

Fought Carlos Palomino twice for the welterweight title, and is best remembered for being robbed in Mexico against Mantequilla Napoles.

Imagine that--- a Mexican robbed in his native country when fighting a Cuban.

Ended his career on his stool against Ray Leonard, but Mando's time was over.

But if it's any consolation, if Muniz was any bigger, he would have made a fine middleweight.

oogiebe wrote: ↑12 May 2018, 13:36 The 1970's was a classic time for the Middleweight Division. Chock full of great fighters who fought each other throughout the decade. Look up any one of the below and see how much crossover fights they had! Note the dominance of Philly fighters (Philadelphia, PA)

C - Carlos Monzon

Gratian Tonna
Bennis Briscoe - Philly
Bobby "Boogaloo" Watts - Philly
Vito Antuofermo
Billy Douglas - Philly
WIllie Monroe - Philly
Eugene Hart - Philly
Rodrigo Valdes
Tony Licata
Armundo Muniz
Mustafa Hamsho
Tony Mundine
Nino Benvenuti (at end of his career)
Marvin Hagler
Jean Claude Bouttier
Emile Griffith (great welterweight champ but included here out of respect)
Tom Bogs (went on to LHW)
Vinnie Curto
Denny Moyer
Juan and Antonio Aguilar
Et Al. Who were the others missed by me?

I believe the most exciting decade in the division of all-time.

Flump wrote: ↑13 May 2018, 13:16 From our side of the pond I'd like to see Kevin Finnegan and Alan Minter on that list

oogiebe wrote: ↑12 May 2018, 13:36 The 1970's was a classic time for the Middleweight Division. Chock full of great fighters who fought each other throughout the decade. Look up any one of the below and see how much crossover fights they had! Note the dominance of Philly fighters (Philadelphia, PA)

C - Carlos Monzon

Gratian Tonna
Bennis Briscoe - Philly
Bobby "Boogaloo" Watts - Philly
Vito Antuofermo
Billy Douglas - Philly
WIllie Monroe - Philly
Eugene Hart - Philly
Rodrigo Valdes
Tony Licata
Armundo Muniz
Alan Minter
Mustafa Hamsho
Tony Mundine
Nino Benvenuti (at end of his career)
Marvin Hagler
Jean Claude Bouttier
Emile Griffith (great welterweight champ but included here out of respect)
Tom Bogs (went on to LHW)
Vinnie Curto
Denny Moyer
Juan and Antonio Aguilar
Et Al. Who were the others missed by me?

I believe the most exciting decade in the division of all-time.

SenorPipino wrote: ↑12 May 2018, 13:50 That was a classic era. It probably gets unfairly downgraded because of Monzon's dominance during the bulk of that decade.

If there was no Monzon, Valdez would be much more remembered and revered.

The Philly fighters were special with Boogaloo Watts (hey, there's a great name) handing Hagler the first defeat of his career (very disputed) and Worm Monroe turning the same trick just months later (deserved).

Hagler would avenge those losses with KO wins.

Too bad Monzon and Hagler missed each other by a few years.

Only error I see on your list is including Mando Muñiz, a career welterweight.

Unlike others, I won't call you every 4 letter word in the book for this mistake or suggest that the world would he better off without your presence.

But believe me, somebody will.

oogiebe wrote: ↑13 May 2018, 13:25

Flump wrote: ↑13 May 2018, 13:16 From our side of the pond I'd like to see Kevin Finnegan and Alan Minter on that list

Alan mintor was on my original list before I accidentally erased my txt and had to start over. Adding him now. N

Flump wrote: ↑13 May 2018, 13:30

oogiebe wrote: ↑13 May 2018, 13:25

Flump wrote: ↑13 May 2018, 13:16 From our side of the pond I'd like to see Kevin Finnegan and Alan Minter on that list

Alan mintor was on my original list before I accidentally erased my txt and had to start over. Adding him now. N

No love for Finnegan oogiebe? He beat Tonna, Bouttier and Sibson, gave Hagler two good arguments and lost by the width on a cigarette paper to Minter.

oogiebe wrote: ↑13 May 2018, 13:35

Flump wrote: ↑13 May 2018, 13:30

oogiebe wrote: ↑13 May 2018, 13:25

Alan mintor was on my original list before I accidentally erased my txt and had to start over. Adding him now. N

No love for Finnegan oogiebe? He beat Tonna, Bouttier and Sibson, gave Hagler two good arguments and lost by the width on a cigarette paper to Minter.

to be honest, he fell through the cracks as I am not as familiar with him. It was to be all the blokes who fought one another, so in that respect it's not a miss. He gets an asterisk for fighting Mintor three times and Haggler twice.

oogiebe wrote: ↑13 May 2018, 13:29

SenorPipino wrote: ↑12 May 2018, 13:50 That was a classic era. It probably gets unfairly downgraded because of Monzon's dominance during the bulk of that decade.

If there was no Monzon, Valdez would be much more remembered and revered.

The Philly fighters were special with Boogaloo Watts (hey, there's a great name) handing Hagler the first defeat of his career (very disputed) and Worm Monroe turning the same trick just months later (deserved).

Hagler would avenge those losses with KO wins.

Too bad Monzon and Hagler missed each other by a few years.

Only error I see on your list is including Mando Muñiz, a career welterweight.

Unlike others, I won't call you every 4 letter word in the book for this mistake or suggest that the world would he better off without your presence.

But believe me, somebody will.

Great post! I always thought that Monzon would do away with Hagler believe it or not. Too long too strong too good a counter puncher.

oogiebe wrote: ↑13 May 2018, 13:35

oogiebe wrote: ↑13 May 2018, 13:35

Flump wrote: ↑13 May 2018, 13:30

No love for Finnegan oogiebe? He beat Tonna, Bouttier and Sibson, gave Hagler two good arguments and lost by the width on a cigarette paper to Minter.

to be honest, he fell through the cracks as I am not as familiar with him. It was to be all the blokes who fought one another, so in that respect it's not a miss. He gets an asterisk for fighting Mintor three times and Haggler twice.

Haggler ko'd him twice.

SenorPipino wrote: ↑13 May 2018, 13:46

oogiebe wrote: ↑13 May 2018, 13:29

SenorPipino wrote: ↑12 May 2018, 13:50 That was a classic era. It probably gets unfairly downgraded because of Monzon's dominance during the bulk of that decade.

If there was no Monzon, Valdez would be much more remembered and revered.

The Philly fighters were special with Boogaloo Watts (hey, there's a great name) handing Hagler the first defeat of his career (very disputed) and Worm Monroe turning the same trick just months later (deserved).

Hagler would avenge those losses with KO wins.

Too bad Monzon and Hagler missed each other by a few years.

Only error I see on your list is including Mando Muñiz, a career welterweight.

Unlike others, I won't call you every 4 letter word in the book for this mistake or suggest that the world would he better off without your presence.

But believe me, somebody will.

Great post! I always thought that Monzon would do away with Hagler believe it or not. Too long too strong too good a counter puncher.

Monzon's long arms and his skill at tying opponents up before they could find the proper range might have given him the nod over Hagler.

He was able to defuse Valdez by wrapping him up before Valdez could cut the distance, especially in the first fight which I thought Monzon won in lopsided fashion.

But I don't think that Monzon would "do away" with Hagler easily.

Marvelous was no weakling and would have been a 15 round handful for any middleweight champion.

Probably a squeaker of a decision.

SenorPipino wrote: ↑13 May 2018, 14:15 Valdez had developed into an outstanding champion and I expected him to give Monzon all he could handle in the first fight.

But Monzon drew Valdez in, countered spectacularly, and tied him up when necessary.

I didn't feel the fight was close. Maybe 10-5 or 11-4 Monzon. The judges saw it quite a bit closer though.

A year later, with Monzon approaching 35, it was apparent that he was slipping. It took him about 5 or 6 rounds to get untracked and was even decked early.

This was a fight where Monzon's physical strength and boxing wisdom carried him to a close win.

Valdez was in the fight throughout, but appeared to wear down from Monzon's pressure.

Monzon wisely decided to retire shortly after that fight. Hagler was on the rise in 1977 and it's unlikely that a post-35 year old Monzon would have had enough in the tank to upend him.

oogiebe wrote: ↑12 May 2018, 13:37 For me the best part of the 1970's was you could open up anyone's record and you'll see all the other guys, many times twice and a bunch more than that? Everyone fought each other...imagine!?

Kalan wrote: ↑14 May 2018, 12:09

oogiebe wrote: ↑12 May 2018, 13:37 For me the best part of the 1970's was you could open up anyone's record and you'll see all the other guys, many times twice and a bunch more than that? Everyone fought each other...imagine!?

They didn’t fight each other that much actually... Who else on your list did Armando Muniz beat? To my knowledge he never fought at Middleweight... Douglas doesn't have a lot of big Middleweight wins either.

Griffith was certainly a better Middleweight than almost anybody you mentioned except Carlos Monzon... Griffith beat Benvenuti, Bogs, Briscoe, and Moyer on your list, along with a lot of 60’s Middleweights like Dick Tiger... Hugo Corro and Ronnie Harris were better 1970’s Middleweights than many on your list. They were pretty fair boxers.

The 90’s had much better Middleweights at the top than the 70's -- with Roy Jones… James Toney… Mike McCallum… Reggie Johnson… Michael Nunn… Bernard Hopkins… Lamar Parks… Julian Jackson… and Gerald McClellan.

Kalan wrote: ↑14 May 2018, 16:06 It's not an opinion when you say you can look up the record on one on your list and see all the others there.... You're stating it like it's a fact... Who was BEST prime Middleweight Marvin Hagler EVER fought who was a natural Middleweight and didn't come up from Lightweight, Welterweight, or Super Welterweight???

I don't see any paragons of Fistic History on his record.